573 replies to this topic

[Rydo]

I'm sure if it was such a big deal, the red bull team wouldn't have allowed Boris Johnson the opportunity to have a photo shoot at their factory a few days before the general election.

[Zoe]

That is by far the most convincing argument ever. not

[Rydo]

That is by far the most convincing argument ever. not

It was more satirical than anything. I have a huge hatred for all things Brexit and all things Conservative. I probably shouldn't have contributed any thought to this topic. Over and out...

[New Britain]

It was more satirical than anything. I have a huge hatred for all things Brexit and all things Conservative....

Good point. We all know how motor racing has flourished in socialist economies.

Perhaps last year we should have had a thread - "How would a Corbyn government affect F1?" I suspect we had none because no true racing enthusiast could bring themselves to contemplate the prospect of nationalised teams racing tractors.

[Rydo]

Good point. We all know how motor racing has flourished in socialist economies.
Perhaps last year we should have had a thread - "How would a Corbyn government affect F1?" I suspect we had none because no true racing enthusiast could bring themselves to contemplate the prospect of nationalised teams racing tractors.

Tractor racing has its moments, to suggest otherwise is ludicrous.

[pdac]

Lets cut all of the political slant on our posts. Some of us are right-wing and some of us are left-wing. Some are right-wing and support Brexit, some are left-wing and support Brexit. Some are right-wing and oppose Brexit, some are left-wing and oppose Brexit. Some don't know what they are or how they feel. All that's needed here is for you to say what you think will be happening to F1 as the Brexit process is completed.

[noikeee]

All that's needed here is for you to say what you think will be happening to F1 as the Brexit process is completed.

 

I imagine it won't look like much of a factor from a distance, specially since it looks like highly skilled foreigner workers (ie, almost anyone working in a F1 team) will still be able to go settle in the UK, but will be a destabilizing factor in the background specially making the UK-based teams a bit less efficient. I expect Ferrari, Sauber and Alpha Tauri to slowly gain some minor advantages over the next few years as they become comparatively more economically viable. This might be noticeable or might not, and if it is it'll take a couple of years post-Brexit to become so.

 

The incoming cost cap might move way attention from Brexit - I suspect the cost cap might be a bigger destabilizing factor in the coming years, at least for the big teams.

 

I'm no economist though.

[Fatgadget]

^

Cost capping is a  nonsense. Those with prestige and  bottomless pockets will always be one step ahead. They the ones able to hire the best brains  in the business..Offer them the best perks. Have the best facilities etc etc....How do you cost cap that?

[noikeee]

^
Cost capping is a nonsense. Those with prestige and bottomless pockets will always be one step ahead. They the ones able to hire the best brains in the business..Offer them the best perks. Have the best facilities etc etc....How do you cost cap that?

Bit of a side topic, but the point isn't to go all-in full Lenin or full USA-sports-style (the true height of communism in the 21st century) and put everyone on an absolutely equal standing point... The point is to make the rich folks' advantages a little shorter. So instead of completely running away with the title and dominating every race, they might get occasionally caught out by the small teams every now and again. Also everyone wins financially as they spend less collectively, so more teams will run at a profit, which in turn makes the sport more attractive and the franchises more valuable, which in turn will attract more rich buyers to the smaller teams further equalising the field. Makes perfect sense to me.

Remains to be seen whether it'll be enforceable and any success in practice or if teams just find ways around it, but let's give it a chance. It's not as if teams don't try to get around every single other rule anyway - the sport over time still found a way to get into some sort of semi-coherent balance despite all that.

Edited by noikeee, 15 January 2020 - 00:43.

[New Britain]

I imagine it won't look like much of a factor from a distance, specially since it looks like highly skilled foreigner workers (ie, almost anyone working in a F1 team) will still be able to go settle in the UK, but will be a destabilizing factor in the background specially making the UK-based teams a bit less efficient. I expect Ferrari, Sauber and Alpha Tauri to slowly gain some minor advantages over the next few years as they become comparatively more economically viable. This might be noticeable or might not, and if it is it'll take a couple of years post-Brexit to become so.

 

The incoming cost cap might move way attention from Brexit - I suspect the cost cap might be a bigger destabilizing factor in the coming years, at least for the big teams.

 

I'm no economist though.

Fwiw, I have had a lot of interaction with one UK-based team and a reasonable amount with two others, and I can tell you that a huge percentage of the workforce is British. The percentage isn't quite so great for the technical people at the very top, but as soon as you get down a notch they're almost all Brits. Agreed that the cost-cap should have a considerably larger impact than Brexit will do, but so will the new rules which are intended to permit closer racing and more overtaking.

[taran]

I imagine it won't look like much of a factor from a distance, specially since it looks like highly skilled foreigner workers (ie, almost anyone working in a F1 team) will still be able to go settle in the UK, but will be a destabilizing factor in the background specially making the UK-based teams a bit less efficient. I expect Ferrari, Sauber and Alpha Tauri to slowly gain some minor advantages over the next few years as they become comparatively more economically viable. This might be noticeable or might not, and if it is it'll take a couple of years post-Brexit to become so.

 

The incoming cost cap might move way attention from Brexit - I suspect the cost cap might be a bigger destabilizing factor in the coming years, at least for the big teams.

 

I'm no economist though.

 

Interesting view. Perhaps we need a thread about how the cost cap is going to affect F1?

[midgrid]

Here's an existing thread on the budget cap, if anyone's interested.

[Tsarwash]

See the thread where someone called bullshit on my degree and I posted a copy of my certificate.

 

I practise radical honesty. I do not lie nor exaggerate. I have a friend in their 20s who believed it was not permissible to travel from the UK to the continent before 1992/3. Mostly because they were not born then, and because they'd heard all the stories about "freedom of movement" beginning in the early 90s and they assumed that we weren't able to visit or work on the continent.

 

I also assume they'd never heard of Auf Wiedersehen, Pet.

 

But please do not make the mistake of accusing me of telling lies. I take it with *great* offence. 

Take as much offence as you like, I do not believe that. If it is true then this person must be one of most staggeringly stupid people in this country. That requires an unbelievable level of ignorance on your friend's part to think that travel between the UK and mainland Europe was illegal before the 90's. It's possible, but I strongly suspect that you are exaggerating. 

 

Which wasn't because of Brexit...because much less then than even now, Brexit had not happened. It was more fear of Brexit. There is almost certainly no tangible reason for your supplier to decide to move back to Germany. 

 

The truth is, we do all want to keep trading more or less as we do now. It is in nobody's interest to introduce significant barriers to all the German cars, French cheese, Italian wine and myriad other transactions for both goods and services. 

I do like that idea that you present something completely far fetched and state that you will take great offence if people do not believe you, and yet when I relate a simple and true story, you basically accuse me of lying. It was because of Brexit. Brexit is not only the act of leaving the EU, it is also the wider context of that act. There was a very tangible reason for my friend leaving. The pound tanking as soon as the result was known was reason enough, but there were other reasons. 

 

It is in nobody's interest to introduce any additional barriers to trade, but that does not mean that it will not happen.

[7MGTEsup]

Erm don't more than 50% of the races take part out side of the EU? How do the teams cope with that?

[Requiem84]

Erm don't more than 50% of the races take part out side of the EU? How do the teams cope with that?

 

Usually quite good, but it poses challenges some times and those races are more costly in terms of Customs procedures, admin, FTE's. 

 

It does pose challenges too sometimes:

 

 

 

Formula 1's title contenders could be forced to delay the introduction of vital car updates because of the risk of potential customs delays in India.

With the championship battle finely poised at the moment, teams are eager to bring forward performance improvements because of the big impact that could have on their chances.

However, because of the bureaucratic nature of the Indian customs where the next race takes place on October 28, there is the chance that new parts getting flown in at the last minute may not make it through to the track in time.

That means teams are now weighing up whether or not it is worth fast-tracking items for the next race, or elect instead to take them to Abu Dhabi.[/quote]

 

[quote]

Renault and McLaren were both forced to break Formula 1's curfew rules ahead of Japanese Grand Prix practice due to the late arrival of their BP/Castrol lubricants from Europe.

Both teams have asked the FIA for a dispensation because weather contributed to the delay.

Due to ongoing storms Osaka airport has been closed on a regular basis in recent weeks, which has led to freight being diverted to Tokyo. That has in turn led to a backlog in the customs warehouses at the capital's airport.

Edited by Requiem84, 15 January 2020 - 15:19.

[pdac]

Erm don't more than 50% of the races take part out side of the EU? How do the teams cope with that?

 

But a good few races take part inside the EU. Teams that are also based inside the EU will, no doubt, benefit slightly when those races are on.

[Requiem84]

But a good few races take part inside the EU. Teams that are also based inside the EU will, no doubt, benefit slightly when those races are on.

 

That's also what Toto is thinking:

 

Mercedes CEO Dieter Zetsche recently came out strongly against Brexit, saying “It would have very negative consequences, especially for the automotive industry.” In times of uncertainty companies, particularly listed entities, tend to reduce non-essential spend, with motorsport budgets often the first to be culled. Mercedes is committed to F1 until the end of 2020, but not beyond.

 

 

No-deal Brexit would be a “nightmare”, said Wolff

The company’s head of motorsport, Toto Wolff, admitted during testing “we are monitoring it very closely because we have a large operation in the UK,” and later branding a no-deal Brexit “a nightmare scenario that that I don’t want to even envisage” and “the mother of all messes.” He warned the disruption could even hand a competitive advantage to arch-rival Ferrari.

[BRG]

It was more satirical than anything. I have a huge hatred for all things Brexit and all things Conservative. I probably shouldn't have contributed any thought to this topic. Over and out...

And yet, the truth slipped out despite everything.  Perhaps you need to re-examine your principles to see if you are in fact a closet Leaver and Conservative voter.

[BRG]

BREXIT is now a fact with almost 52% of the votes for an Exit and 48% against an exit.

Is this going to affect F1 teams that have their headquarters in UK?

So now we have the final definitive answer.

 

Which Is NO.

[Disgrace]

I suppose the concern for motorsport as a whole is that the UK is a less attractive destination for car manufacturer investment. While tariffs and quotas were avoided, the UK did not get all that it wanted on rules of origin, like cumulation. Explainer for the interested. 

 

For example: Japanese cars are built in the UK using components sourced from China, Japan, etc. Too much foreign component input would cause them to fail to qualify for tariff-free export to the EU unless the components were sourced at expense from the EU or UK. You are better placed to avoid this problem being based in the EU instead.

 

It will be interesting once the full details of this are revealed. I think the risk is not so much current manufacturers leaving, but future investors taking their money elsewhere. Thus a gradual erosion of the UK's standing in certain sectors, car manufacturing and its motorsport offshoot being one.

 

More immediately, F1 traffic will get be caught up in the fun of customs and border checks, non-tariff regulatory barriers and the end of free movement of labour. So British F1 personnel like James Allison who may wish to work for Ferrari or Toro Rosso will now need a visa to do so.

 

All perks of membership were simply rolled over until now. The real thing comes into effect from January. Early disruption is quite likely. Will the new systems work? If British businesses conducting overseas activity believe their PM's claim that there will be no non-tariff barriers, they're in for a surprise in a week's time.

[Dutchrudder]

I suppose the concern for motorsport as a whole is that the UK is a less attractive destination for car manufacturer investment. While tariffs and quotas were avoided, the UK did not get all that it wanted on rules of origin, like cumulation. Explainer for the interested.

For example: Japanese cars are built in the UK using components sourced from China, Japan, etc. Too much foreign component input would cause them to fail to qualify for tariff-free export to the EU unless the components were sourced at expense from the EU or UK. You are better placed to avoid this problem being based in the EU instead.

It will be interesting once the full details of this are revealed. I think the risk is not so much current manufacturers leaving, but future investors taking their money elsewhere. Thus a gradual erosion of the UK's standing in certain sectors, car manufacturing and its motorsport offshoot being one.

More immediately, F1 traffic will get be caught up in the fun of customs and border checks, non-tariff regulatory barriers and the end of free movement of labour. So British F1 personnel like James Allison who may wish to work for Ferrari or Toro Rosso will now need a visa to do so.

All perks of membership were simply rolled over until now. The real thing comes into effect from January. Early disruption is quite likely. Will the new systems work? If British businesses conducting overseas activity believe their PM's claim that there will be no non-tariff barriers, they're in for a surprise in a week's time.

No disruption? I had to do a run to Heathrow and back yesterday from North Wales, apart from the dystopian tier warnings, the other dot matrix signs were warning not to go south due to the border congestion, some of these were on the M56!!!

[Rodaknee]

More immediately, F1 traffic will get be caught up in the fun of customs and border checks, non-tariff regulatory barriers and the end of free movement of labour. So British F1 personnel like James Allison who may wish to work for Ferrari or Toro Rosso will now need a visa to do so.

 

And ditto for any 'foreign' engineers, designers, etc who want to work for British F1 teams.  It may not happen here, but the orange feckwit has created all kinds of barriers to non American staff working in the US, particularly in Silicon Valley.

Edited by Rodaknee, 24 December 2020 - 21:01.

[Disgrace]

No disruption? I had to do a run to Heathrow and back yesterday from North Wales, apart from the dystopian tier warnings, the other dot matrix signs were warning not to go south due to the border congestion, some of these were on the M56!!!

 

Indeed. Something else not envisaged: the COVID testing that will need to take place alongside the yet-untested customs systems to check goods, paperwork and people. The congestion is here to stay for a bit, if I was to guess.

[FLB]

I'm reading Chapter 11 of the Draft Negoicating Document and trying to understand what it means for motorsports in general, in particular Articles 11.8 and 11.10 (for external consultants):

 

DRAFT UK-EU Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement (publishing.service.gov.uk)

Edited by FLB, 24 December 2020 - 21:25.