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Motor Sport magazine - is it as good as it could be?


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#551 chunder27

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 14:50

You think the cost is down! 

 

That says a lot



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#552 john aston

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 17:44

It's a fiver . And offers some of us more entertainment than , say,  one and a half Cafe Nero lattes , or one and a half Sunday Times or Autosports . The real price has doubled since 1971- but as the internet has destroyed traditional advertising I am  hardly  surprised . What price do you think it should be ? Do you think people like Simon Arron are getting rich out of it ? Last time

  I heard he was still in his Fiat Punto  :cry: 



#553 jtremlett

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 17:53

Well the current issue was the last of my subscription and I've decided not to renew after many years as a subscriber (and inspite of a quite extraordinary number of letters and emails exhorting me to extend over the last six months).  I'm not all that bothered by the watches, bemused as I am by the thought that so many pages of watches in a car magazine makes sense (which presumably it does because the watch makers must feel they get a return on the advertising costs), but between the loss of writing staff and change of editor there just isn't enough of the content that interests me any more.  At a fiver an issue, I don't think it is expensive but just no point in buying a magazine with little that I want to read in it.

 

Jonathan



#554 Claudio Navonne

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 08:49

Yesterday, November 7, the new issue of the magazine arrived from my house, here in Buenos Aires. A good performance for the distribution system !!



#555 Glengavel

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 07:16

Irrespective of quality, the entire staff should be up in court for crimes against the English language:

 

https://shop.motorsp...ductCode/SPEED/

 

"bookazine", indeed... 



#556 chunder27

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 08:18

For me, yes a fiver is a lot of money for a magazine 70% full of advertising.

 

I somehow subscribed to their email thing a year or so ago and was being spammed every day with some kind of offer or spam to get me to look at it, and it was a bit tricky to unsubscribe, changed now I think, but annoying. Last time I got a free copy I read it in about 2 hours. That is simply not good value.

 

Magazines for me should be between 3 and 4 quid.

 

Maybe I am old fashioned, but a fiver for a magazine just seems too much. Most car mags jumped to a fiver years ago, and they have stayed there for a long time because publishers know it was too much when they jumped and if they go over that threshold a lot of people will stop buying.

 

Subscriptions fair enough, but as I say paying good money for people ramming watches down my throat and a mag full of advertising, sorry no.



#557 LordAston

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 13:54

Hence why Automobilsport is such great value at £7.80 every 3 months which is if my maths is correct £2.60 a month.  I was given a free issue of the latest and all it has done so far has collected dust as I refuse to read something which is more adverts than articles it seems.  Also again Automobilsport has hardly any ads and those which they do have are tasteful.



#558 BRG

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 18:01

Latest (January 2018) edition out today.  Price has reverted to £4.99.  Was the £5.50 for the December 2017 edition to cover the costs of all those pages of watch adverts?  I think we should be told.

 

Contents look OK to me, but some might crib at the extra coverage of motorcycle racing.



#559 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 04:48

Latest (January 2018) edition out today. 
Contents look OK to me, but some might crib at the extra coverage of motorcycle racing.

I'd rather read about motorcycles than watches.....especially in a magazine called Motor Sport.

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#560 john aston

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 07:56

As we all know , most magazines, motoring or not, carry advertising , sometimes in supplements . It subsidises the cost  and has always happened - juts look at any old MS , Motor or Autocar from the 60s or 70s . Or CCC- rammed full of ads . I have no interest in watches so don't read the ads, the same as I don't read the ads for cruises or supplements about Dubai  in The Times. But the ads aren't taking space that would be used for tales of BRM P160s etc - it's additional paper inserted.    



#561 Steve99

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 09:43

Price has reverted to £4.99.  Was the £5.50 for the December 2017 edition to cover the costs of all those pages of watch adverts?  I think we should be told.

 

 

 

My copy of the December edition was £4.99?



#562 opplock

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 10:52

My copy also has price of £4.99 on front cover. Perhaps BRG's newsagent is trying to supplement his pension. 

 

Surely the discussion about watch adverts has been flogged to death by now.  



#563 chunder27

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 11:43

Like anything you make your choice

 

I feel most people still buy magazines out of habit, nothing more.

 

They stopped being good value many, many years ago and I know the ones I was buying in between then and now were purely a consequence of habit.

 

It's why they offer you cheap sub deals as they know the thing is not worth anything like what they are charging really.

 

I have bought a few on odd occasions, but invariably they take a couple of hours to read and then I am done with them an throw them away. Would rather read news online, watch a film or read a book



#564 Steve99

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 11:50

 

Surely the discussion about watch adverts has been flogged to death by now.  

 I'm sure it has. Advertising is a necessary evil with print publications. I's rather it was watches than weetabix.



#565 BRG

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 19:06

My copy of the December edition was £4.99?

 

My copy also has price of £4.99 on front cover. Perhaps BRG's newsagent is trying to supplement his pension. eath by now.  

That's very odd because I am looking at the December 2017 magazine (Vol 93 No 12) as I type and it says £5.50 as clear as the nose on Alain Prost's face.  And I think I bought it in Tesco so 51p won't go far in their pension fund.

 

I have just read the CUT 7 article and found it very unsatisfactory.  It fails both as a track test and as a history.  Deciphering who did what to which car was difficult and I am none the wiser about where the third version of CUT 7 went.



#566 elansprint72

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 20:08

I'm afraid that I'll be opting out.... yet again.



#567 charles r

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 07:56

I'm afraid that I'll be opting out.... yet again.

Having received my latest copy yesterday and with all due repect to DCN and Mark Hughes, I am afraid I have to agree. No doubt I will be back at some point!



#568 Parkesi

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 11:42

100 % confirmed, see my #412 / 11th July 2017. Andreas



#569 Steve99

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 12:04

That's very odd because I am looking at the December 2017 magazine (Vol 93 No 12) as I type and it says £5.50 as clear as the nose on Alain Prost's face.  

 

Curioser and curioser! No Alain Prost on the cover of mine. As for the latest edition, I'm enjoying it very much. Plenty of good stuff in there for me. Might not be the same for everyone, but it will keep me entertained. And there's not a lot does that for a fiver.



#570 BRG

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 17:34

No Prost on mine either, just those happy campers Lewis and Seb.  I just quoted  the Prost proboscis to give it a motor racing related slant!



#571 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 18:45

My copy also has price of £4.99 on front cover. Perhaps BRG's newsagent is trying to supplement his pension. 
 
Surely the discussion about watch adverts has been flogged to death by now.

Wait! I'm not done! :) :wave:

I wonder why watch sellers think their target audience reads Motor Sport. I happen to be interested in watches, as indeed others here probably are, but only of the collectible type. It would seem to me that those interested in purchasing a four- or five-figure lump for the wrist are not necessarily the same bunch as those interested in the history of motorsport. I wonder if those pages are sold at a much lower rate than other advertisers pay.

#572 kayemod

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 18:50

I wonder why watch sellers think their target audience reads Motor Sport. I happen to be interested in watches, as indeed others here probably are, but only of the collectible type. It would seem to me that those interested in purchasing a four- or five-figure lump for the wrist are not necessarily the same bunch as those interested in the history of motorsport. I wonder if those pages are sold at a much lower rate than other advertisers pay.

 

Seems fairly simple, those expensive watches appeal to wealthy people who appreciate fine engineering and craftsmanship, probably exactly the same group who'll happily pay large sums for finely engineered machinery like expensive cars, looks like a perfect fit to me.



#573 chunder27

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 19:16

It will be based on research done by the publisher, all to do with aspirational purchases, and what thepublichers think they can get away with.  People who read seem to think spending 90 quid to watch Goodwood in the cold is fine, there you have it?

 

You would not see them advertised on Auto Express as much as that if for motorists, not collectors, same reason the companies that advertise there do so.  Target audience is rich and has money to spend.

 

Come on, they are happy to spend millions on bloody cars, so a 50 grand watch is nothing, especially if they cost 10 to make, do the math guys. It's a money game, nothing more.



#574 kayemod

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 20:01

 

Come on, they are happy to spend millions on bloody cars, so a 50 grand watch is nothing, especially if they cost 10 to make, do the math guys. It's a money game, nothing more.

 

With an attitude as cynical as that, I think you would have had a lot in common with Oscar Wilde.



#575 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 20:07

Seems fairly simple, those expensive watches appeal to wealthy people who appreciate fine engineering and craftsmanship, probably exactly the same group who'll happily pay large sums for finely engineered machinery like expensive cars, looks like a perfect fit to me.

Seems fairly simple, those expensive watches appeal to wealthy people who appreciate fine engineering and craftsmanship, probably exactly the same group who'll happily pay large sums for finely engineered machinery like expensive cars, looks like a perfect fit to me.


I believe most of the people you describe as readers of MS would tend to be more interested in vintage Pateks, Vacherons, Heuers, etc. rather than the modern mega watches that tend to be features in MS's advertorials. The more modern watches might be more accurately targeted toward readers of Evo.

#576 chunder27

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 21:18

It is not an exact science

 

People who buy classic watches probably do it in auctions, where you also happen to buy collections, memorabilia and classic cars.

See the link yet?  its not hard



#577 uffen

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 21:31

Maybe they're tempted to buy one of the new watches, hoping it will become the collectible of the future.



#578 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 22:59

It is not an exact science
 
People who buy classic watches probably do it in auctions, where you also happen to buy collections, memorabilia and classic cars.

See the link yet?  its not hard

T

If you're addressing me, no, I don't see the connection. Typically classic cars and collectable watches are not offered at the same auctions. And the watch ads I see in MS are for new products, not watches that would currently be considered collectable.

#579 elansprint72

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 23:11

I wonder how many readers, blinded by the fold-out front cover, dashed out and signed up for a 750k motor-boat?

Were I to be looking for a boat, at any price, I'd probably buy a boat magazine.

If I wanted a boat at that price, I would probably not be looking at any magazine.

Sorry; I'm not at all interested in modern effwun and can't bear to read Frankel.



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#580 john winfield

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 11:22

I wonder how many readers, blinded by the fold-out front cover, dashed out and signed up for a 750k motor-boat?

Were I to be looking for a boat, at any price, I'd probably buy a boat magazine.

If I wanted a boat at that price, I would probably not be looking at any magazine.

Sorry; I'm not at all interested in modern effwun and can't bear to read Frankel.

 

Motor Sport used to run plenty of boat ads in the early 1970s, chiefly for Moonraker as far as I can recall. I assume the aim was to tempt Lotus enthusiasts.

FWIW, MS may not have published watch 'supplements' in the past, but they did regularly run watch ads. Avia in the early 1960s, Heuer and Breitling in the late 1960s, Chronosport's wide range in the late 1960s and early 1970s, Omega, Seiko, more Heuer, occasionally Rolex, Buler etc.. I think my favourite is Lind-Air's offer of Ex-RAF 8 day time-of-trip clocks for £15 in 1972....'as used by the world's leading Rally & Racing Drivers, including winner of Le Mans.' They knew how to target their audience in those days.



#581 retriever

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 14:07

I wonder how many readers, blinded by the fold-out front cover, dashed out and signed up for a 750k motor-boat?

Were I to be looking for a boat, at any price, I'd probably buy a boat magazine.

If I wanted a boat at that price, I would probably not be looking at any magazine.

Sorry; I'm not at all interested in modern effwun and can't bear to read Frankel.

 

In parallel to to the above, If I wanted to read about motorbikes I would buy one of the many magazines on the subject currently available!

 

I for one am giving up my subscription to Motor Sport. The above, and the fact that it is more like a Country Life magazine these days, has totally turned me off. 



#582 pacificquay

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 15:15

Much of this misses the point that if these advertisers didn't think there was a ROI on their advertising in the magazine they wouldn't do it.

 

Somewhat suggesting it does supply the target audience they need.



#583 RA Historian

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 15:39

I agree. If the advertisers did not think that they are getting adequate return, they would not advertise in the mag. Simple. How can one not understand that those ads keep the price of the magazine down? How is that so hard to grasp? Or is it just more fun to bitch, hold one's breath until turning blue, and whine about cancelling one's subscription?



#584 Supertourer

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 17:06

You want to try Motorsport News for 'value' £3.50 and the last time I had a flick through in the newsagents it was barely 40 pages in all....



#585 mfd

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 18:08

Maybe they're tempted to buy one of the new watches, hoping it will become the collectible of the future.

There's one watch advert I just don't get. It has one hand...and a date

#586 2F-001

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 18:53

There's one watch advert I just don't get. It has one hand...and a date

When you are a man-of-leisure (possibly with servants) you only need to know the time to the nearest hour...

#587 chunder27

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 18:58

Oh dear

 

Some people literally have no idea about publishing

 

Advertising is not there to keep the cost down, it is there to make a profit on the magazine.  the publishers takes on board the cost of printing, logistics etc.  And that is far cheaper now than it ever was before as it's all done online not with scans and the like, yet magazines like MS are still expensive.

 

Ads are there to make profit on the title it is why there are more of them than content.

 

I remember working at MN in the 00's and there was hugely serious consideration given to removing two pages of copy when Stewart won a race and HSBC wanted a centre spread, for a squillion quid, it took hours to sort this out and it eventually happened.



#588 2F-001

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 19:00

I have no particular interest in wristwatches, but here is one in which the design and construction is unusual and rather interesting...


(Although the face looks rather like the very crisp icons on an iPhone or Apple watch, moving around on a screen, it is entirely mechanical - bear with it until they show the dials moving.)

Edited by 2F-001, 04 December 2017 - 19:03.


#589 Michael Ferner

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 21:18

That was fine & interesting, until the moment they mentioned the price! :eek: :eek: [where's the jaw-drop emoticon when you need it!]

#590 PCC

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 21:27

That was fine & interesting, until the moment they mentioned the price! :eek: :eek: [where's the jaw-drop emoticon when you need it!]

Yikes, I see what you mean!

 

That said, it shows the kind of radical thinking that I've missed so much in racing cars for the last few decades... This watch belongs in the old Can-Am!



#591 Michael Ferner

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 21:46

There was a time when watches were boring, and racing cars mechanical masterpieces... :(

#592 john aston

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 08:03

Oh dear

 

Some people literally have no idea about publishing

 

Advertising is not there to keep the cost down, it is there to make a profit on the magazine.  the publishers takes on board the cost of printing, logistics etc.  And that is far cheaper now than it ever was before as it's all done online not with scans and the like, yet magazines like MS are still expensive.

 

Ads are there to make profit on the title it is why there are more of them than content.

 

I remember working at MN in the 00's and there was hugely serious consideration given to removing two pages of copy when Stewart won a race and HSBC wanted a centre spread, for a squillion quid, it took hours to sort this out and it eventually happened.

  It 's one and the same thing. Income streams from advertising helps subsidise  the cost of production , leading to potential profit in a good year and smaller losses in a bad one. Your argument would only work if the net income matched exactly the expenditure of production and distribution ,  leading to all advertising being a bonus income.



#593 Steve99

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 08:44

  It 's one and the same thing. Income streams from advertising helps subsidise  the cost of production , leading to potential profit in a good year and smaller losses in a bad one. Your argument would only work if the net income matched exactly the expenditure of production and distribution ,  leading to all advertising being a bonus income.

 

The same reason, indeed, that websites have annoying adverts. 



#594 Stephen W

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 09:19

You want to try Motorsport News for 'value' £3.50 and the last time I had a flick through in the newsagents it was barely 40 pages in all....

 

Not only has it shrunk in number of pages but the pages are smaller. Muttering Nudes no longer seems content to cater for the Club sports enthusiasts. Instead it runs pages on F1 which Autosport replicate. Surely we should have seen a split with MN covering the British scene and Autosprout the international one? None of what were the three best British magazines - Autosport, Motor Sport & Motoring News - are worth the cover price based on the motoring content. Autosport doesn't cover club sport and is F1-centric, Motorsport News has also cut adrift the club scene and spends too much time with international sport whilst Motor Sport has mimicked Octane but done it badly. I had been thinking about renewing my subscription to Motor Sport but will now buy a copy and make up my own mind, although reading some of the comments I wonder if it would be a waste of a fiver.



#595 Charlieman

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 11:47

I wonder how many readers, blinded by the fold-out front cover, dashed out and signed up for a 750k motor-boat?

They would be the same people who frequent the auctioneers and private investment banks which advertise in Motor Sport.

 

There's an acronym for the very rich -- High Net Worth Individual (HNWI). They tend to keep their heads down because lots of people want to sell things to them. One of the magazines that HNWIs read is Motor Sport so advertisers follow them there, keeping the magazine running. 

 

If I was an HNWI I'd keep my head down too. The designers of prestige watches and customised Range Rovers have appalling taste -- or assume that HNWIs do.



#596 BRG

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 14:22

If I was an HNWI I'd keep my head down too. The designers of prestige watches and customised Range Rovers have appalling taste -- or assume that HNWIs do.

Nobody ever got rich by underestimating the poor taste of the consumer.  If those watches and Range Rovers are ghastly, it is because your HNWIs do have appalling taste. 

 

But I hadn't realised that Motor Sport was required reading for the filthy rich (FR) but it explains why I had to wrestle with a bloke named Jeeves to get my copy down in Tescos.  And probably why it had a cover price of £5.50 instead of the £4.99 that all you lesser mortals seem to have paid. 



#597 LordAston

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 15:36

I'm wasting my breath here but the next issue of Automobilsport has an article about Laura Ferrari in it's Viva Ferrari special.

 

Here is an extract from the website:  If there are any mistakes (don't Blame me).  But the magazine is out around 21st of this month IIRC

 

Two years ago, on 5 September 2015, the small Italian community of Racconigi honoured an internationally-recognised citizen with a special gesture. At 11:30 a.m., on the west side of Piazza Carlo Alberto, a section of the street was named ‘Via Laura Garello Ferrari’. Laura Garello was born on 10 September 1900 near Torino, the only daughter to Andrea Garello and Delfina Porchietto. On 28 April 1923 she married Enzo Anselmo Ferrari, one of the great pioneers of the automotive industry, an entrepreneurial legend, and founder of the world-famous Scuderia Ferrari. When Enzo courted her in the late 1920s, she was ‘the beautiful dark signora’ – as she was once described by motorsport journalist Hermann Harster. The writer had met the Commendatore’s wife at the German Grand Prix at the Nürburgring on 6 August in 1961 and recalled that her brown eyes often drifted off ‘as if a miracle came out of nowhere’. However, in the life of signora Ferrari, miracles were extremely rare…

Millions of words have been dedicated to describing the life and times of Enzo Ferrari, in books, magazines, newspapers, and now on the internet. But very few words have been written about the woman by his side, who for a long time was a figure in the background, increasingly lonely, but holding a dignified presence until the end.

Who was this Laura Domenica Garello, who in biographies about her husband has been described as everything from a dancer to a ‘puttana’ (prostitue) to a ‘decent, but much-maligned person’? Was she, as Italian journalist and author Gino Rancati put it, ‘a confusing personality with rough edges’? Or was she Ferrari’s alter ego? He himself admitted after her death that ‘now she’s not here any more, I don’t have a point of reference’.

‘Where love prevails, everything else is taken care of’

Enzo Ferrari was born in Modena on 18 February 1898, and by the early 1920s he was constantly travelling between Milan and Turin for a host of different business-related reasons. In his book Enzo Ferrari: The Man, The Cars, The Races, The Machine, American biographer Brock Yates recounts that Ferrari traded cars, bought spare parts, spied on Fiat, listened to the latest industry gossip, and delivered cars to customers. He also started his career as a racing driver at the Parma-Poggio di Berceto hillclimb in 1919. After around 40 national-level races and 11 wins, he stopped racing in 1932. 

Ferrari met his future wife Laura Domenica Garello during a business trip, near the Porta Nuova train station in Turin. As part of the street naming celebration in Racconigi in 2015, Aldo Mano – a journalist at Turin daily newspaper La Stampa – wrote: ‘When they first met near the Stazione di Porta Nuova, Laura, who worked as a seamstress in Turin, was just 19 years old. Enzo was 20. It was love at first sight.’ …



#598 2F-001

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 16:33

I'm wasting my breath here...


I don't see that you're wasting breath - but, although I'm not a subscriber, I check out eat issue and order some of them; so, in my case, you are preaching to the converted!.

#599 BRG

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 17:59

I'm wasting my breath here but the next issue of Automobilsport has an article about Laura Ferrari in it's Viva Ferrari special.

 

Here is an extract from the website:  If there are any mistakes (don't Blame me).  But the magazine is out around 21st of this month IIRC

I must be a bit thick, but I don't see what is so noteworthy about this.  It is a story about something that happened two years ago, so it is neither news nor nostalgia. It certainly won't make me rush to grab a copy.

 

Perhaps you should start a seperate thread about Automobilsport - which will soon degenerate into a lot of people moaning about it.

 

EDIT:  OK, I see that you had in fact started just such a thread as long ago as last February!


Edited by BRG, 09 December 2017 - 19:16.


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#600 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 18:20

I just ordered the new issue of Automobilsport. I figure a Ferrari special issue is as good as any for a test drive...