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Motor Sport magazine - is it as good as it could be?


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#51 Vitesse2

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Posted 11 July 2016 - 16:28

I will look out for it.  I take it that there is an English language edition as meine Deutsch ist schiesse.

Ignoring the superfluous capital D: your German what is shoot?



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#52 kayemod

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Posted 11 July 2016 - 16:40

Ignoring the superfluous capital D: your German what is shoot?

 

The capital D is ok, but we'll no doubt be getting a German lesson from Fines, he'll soon sniff this one out.



#53 Sisyphus

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Posted 11 July 2016 - 18:55

I do continue to enjoy MS, not that it couldn't do without the watch ads and modern car road tests.

 

Doug's column is my usual first stop followed by Nigel's column and the "Lunch with..." article.  I don't think anyone mentioned the Letters but I always read those and they are often quite interesting and enlightening.

 

I think MS is just trying to add some nostalgia with their slow delivery--I grew up reading about the USGP in December in Road & Track...  What is more annoying is the odd spacing of when I receive my copy which seems to vary widely during the year (at least to me in Cali).


Edited by Sisyphus, 11 July 2016 - 18:55.


#54 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 11 July 2016 - 18:58

I really enjoyed the Lunch With......Hurley Haywood this month. Well done, Simon!

#55 Jeff Weinbren

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 01:04

In total agreement with you Jack, certainly one of the articles I look forward to every month, even if it is with someone from a series that I am not particularly interested in!!

Jeff.



#56 TobiR

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 07:07

Interesting thread, this one.

 

My opinion on Motor Sport: still no. 1. But deserves criticism in some areas. The balance between modern and historic is not always favorable. Mark Hughes modern stuff is well researched but in general I don't see the point in reading about an F1 or WEC event five weeks after it happened...Still, Simon Taylor, Nye, Kirby etc. more than make up for it. Good point on Roebuck, nexfast, I agree, many of his anecdotes have been told before.

 

Also interesting are your thoughts on Automobilsport. I discovered it by accident when I was abroad and unfortunately it is hard to get where I live. The 3 months period is a long time, but then it looks like the editors are not after the common magazine reader. I find it very attractive in places, over-styled and German-biased in others. But hats off to their effort! Some of the stories are very well done (particularly F1 stuff, the ATS story was brilliant) others have great pictures but disappointing text or strange wording (translation?). If they raise their game on the content it could become a hit. Let's hope it lasts!



#57 Gary Davies

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 08:36

I have bought or subscribed to Motor Sport since January 1962. It went rather... no, very wonky in the 90's but currently, it's as good as it's ever been.



#58 wolf sun

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 08:53

The capital D is ok, but we'll no doubt be getting a German lesson from Fines, he'll soon sniff this one out.

 

Mein Deutsch ist Scheiße is what it should read.



#59 Michael Ferner

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 14:42



The capital D is ok, but we'll no doubt be getting a German lesson from Fines, he'll soon sniff this one out.

 

The capital D is very ok, but...

 



Mein Deutsch ist Scheiße is what it should read.

 

... actually, it's "Mein Deutsch ist scheiße"!

 

(Damit kann man allerdings sogar einen Deutschlehrer in die Ecke treiben!!)

 

 

On the subject, I don't really feel like I'm in a position to add valuable input, but a few things do creep up on me while skimming through this thread:

 

1) On Nigel Roebuck repeating himself - I already thought so when reading Autosport in the nineties. If he still does, he needs to retire, sad to say. Nothing worse than an endlessly revolving record.

 

2) On Andrew Frankel being annoying - same as above. It's true, easy enough to skip his articles, but when you find him providing more and more content, it's like condoning those editorial decisions if you don't quit buying the magazine.

 

A good magazine will attract good readership, all things being equal. If a magazine needs to resort to hunting readers to keep going, good luck with the future.



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#60 kayemod

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 15:26

 

The capital D is very ok, but...

 

... actually, it's "Mein Deutsch ist scheiße"!

 

(Damit kann man allerdings sogar einen Deutschlehrer in die Ecke treiben!!)

 

I hesitate to disagree with a native German speaker on the subject of bowel movements, but in this context, using Scheiße as a noun, surely "mein Deutsch ist Scheiße" is correct?

 

If on the other hand BRG had confessed that his Deutsch was "shitty", then "beschissen" with a small b would indeed be OK.

 

Who started this line of discussion?



#61 Rudernst

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 15:47

i have just let my subscription lapse

for the second time now, after the "red" phase

 

the "lunch with" series is priceless, alwasys full of valuable background insight and for a long time the reason why I kept my subscription going

but in the end, one good feature in magazine is not enough for me

 

i have shifted to e readers and internet reading anyway

 

RE



#62 Rudernst

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 16:02

as to the German Grammar discussion

 

Sch.... is a noun, in theory, yes,

but it is nowadays very often colloquially used as an adjective, in place of the proper adjective form "beschi...."

this is used as a way to heighten the impact, 

meaning the matter described is so bad, that one does not have energy left to care about proper grammar

i think this form of use came up in the 1980ies

 

use is so very common nowadays, that i had not spotted the funny grammer until now

 

when I was in school in 1985

one day, we had a sprayed graffitty on a wall

"schule is Scheisse" (i leave you guys to work out the meaning...)

the entire school was scandalised for weeks

both about the actual message and the bad grammar, heightened by the bad spelling, the missing "t" in "ist"

we had some teacher actually state that the graffitty as an expression of opinion was bad enough, but to think how the bad spelling would reflect on the quality of their teaching

he did not get the joke at all

you could say that the unknown artist achieved his goal and then some...

 

ahhh memories

 

sorry to heist this thread

 

RE



#63 Michael Ferner

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 16:26

I hesitate to disagree with a native German speaker on the subject of bowel movements,


You're a brave man... :lol:

but in this context, using Scheiße as a noun, surely "mein Deutsch ist Scheiße" is correct?
 
If on the other hand BRG had confessed that his Deutsch was "shitty", then "beschissen" with a small b would indeed be OK.

 

That's exactly the crux of the matter: most people don't really realize, but they don't mean to say "Mein Deutsch ist (ein Haufen) Scheiße" (a pile of ****), actually, instead they just abbreviate the (gramatically not exactly correct) full version of the sentence "Mein Deutsch ist (von) scheiß(e) (=sauschlechter) (Qualität)". Just because the noun is omitted, doesn't mean the adjective becomes a noun itself (cf. "Das (Essen) war gut"). "Mein Deutsch ist beschissen" would be gramatically more correct, but I dunno, somehow people speak and write differently these days, innit?

Who started this line of discussion?


Not me, honest! :smoking:

#64 RogerFrench

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 16:39

I started reading MS at least 65 years ago, and still do. Not keen on watches, nor road tests, but I enjoy the rest.
I really like the MH emailed reports the day after a GP. Agreed, reading on paper 5 weeks later isn't great, but a bang up-to-date report is excellent.

#65 nicanary

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 18:02

All this chat about German grammar is bringing me out in cold sweats. Desist, please! Too many bad memories of reading Goethe in Gothic script. I'm talking about the days of distant past when exams weren't just about taking calculators and dictionaries into the examination room , but were a proper test of what you'd learned.

 

I subscribe BTW. I skip past the road tests and GP reports (there's usually an adequate summary of F1 happenings before the detailed stuff) and just read those articles and columns which interest me. Some months are worse than others. Quite honestly, if people are prepared to fork out £3 a day on unnecessary fancy coffee, or bottles of water when a tap is nearby, then I can't see why they would complain at the quarterly sub cost of £11.85.

 

You pays your money, you takes your choice........



#66 BRG

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 18:39

Well, at least I have been proven right - my German is indeed less than wonderful.  Although given that I have never studied it at all and only picked up a few words when visiting Austria and Switzerland for winter-sporting activities, it is pretty good!  All fifty two words of it.   ;)



#67 MCS

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 21:18

"Motor Sport.....is it as good as it could be?"

 

We all seem to have different views - how strange.  Actually, not - because we are all different in some way or other.

 

What do we want from Motor Sport?  Anybody?



#68 wolf sun

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 23:13

Mein Deutsch ist Scheiße is what it should read.

 

qed, as pointed out ever so gently by Fines and Rudernst, in the case presented here the use of the s-word as an adjective appears to be preferable. Asche auf mein Haupt!

 

(Half-decent input as regards the gist of the thread to be provided in the near future)



#69 doc knutsen

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 09:09

as to the German Grammar discussion

 

Sch.... is a noun, in theory, yes,

but it is nowadays very often colloquially used as an adjective, in place of the proper adjective form "beschi...."

this is used as a way to heighten the impact, 

meaning the matter described is so bad, that one does not have energy left to care about proper grammar

i think this form of use came up in the 1980ies

 

use is so very common nowadays, that i had not spotted the funny grammer until now

 

when I was in school in 1985

one day, we had a sprayed graffitty on a wall

"schule is Scheisse" (i leave you guys to work out the meaning...)

the entire school was scandalised for weeks

both about the actual message and the bad grammar, heightened by the bad spelling, the missing "t" in "ist"

we had some teacher actually state that the graffitty as an expression of opinion was bad enough, but to think how the bad spelling would reflect on the quality of their teaching

he did not get the joke at all

you could say that the unknown artist achieved his goal and then some...

 

ahhh memories

 

sorry to heist this thread

 

RE

 

 

Languages are fun, are they not? Here in Norway, abuse of  English  is pretty common, whereas few people seem interested in risking the same thing with German.  TV sports journalists interviewing German and Austrian athletes  do so in Norwenglish...and we had a recent newspaper story in  the switchboard of a major Norwegian company receiving a call from a French company, spoken in French, to which the receptionist tried to reply in " 'ello, 'ello" style broken English...  A few years ago, we had a range of leisure clothing marketed here under the label "Nature Calling".  And no, the MD of said company was not the redoubtable Ms Incontinentia Buttocks.                At a local Kustom Kar and Bike show a few years back, my eye was drawn to an elaborately decorated Harley-Davidson motor cycle, its multi-layer paint job topped by a wonderful conclusion written in silver Metal-Flake on the fuel tank:  "Real norwegian drive Harley's"...


Edited by doc knutsen, 14 July 2016 - 09:12.


#70 wolf sun

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 10:13

To get back on topic, I think MS is still head and shoulders above anything else on the print market.

 

While the balancing of road car, auction, modern and historic sections might not appeal to everyone month-in month-out, most of the writing is done by people who actually know how to write, and who usually have something to say - which is a big asset, and not always the case with some of the other publications.

 

Lunch with...is perhaps the magazine's greatest feature, at least it's the bit I usually enjoy the most.

 

As to Roebuck repeating himself - it's true to a degree, and Fines is right about this being evident even in the Nineties. He's still a decent writer, though - and I suppose we all have to accept the fact that the anecdotal content of any given period of time is limited. 


Edited by wolf sun, 14 July 2016 - 11:27.


#71 stuartbrs

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 10:50

Ive just had to a fair bit of travelling around the state in the last couple of days for work. So I loaded up the phone with some of the Motorsports pod casts. They really are excellent. 


Edited by stuartbrs, 14 July 2016 - 10:51.


#72 Charlieman

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 12:48

As to Roebuck repeating himself - it's true to a degree, and Fines is right about this being evident even in the Nineties. He's still a decent writer, though - and I suppose we all have to accept the fact that the anecdotal content of any given period of time is limited. 

 

We need to take account that the repeated anecdotes are drawn from NR's tape library of historical interviews. He's taken the effort to transcribe and index the juicy bits and he uses them to back up his reflections on the current state of the sport. Some stories deserve repetition because of their pertinence -- remember that not every reader has followed NR's comments for 40 odd years. Other quotes should have been questioned by a sub-editor. I understand that NR hasn't been a GP regular for several years but he still has some friends -- mostly native English speakers close to events -- who provide new insight.

 

What do I want from MS magazine? I like quirky stories about any period. I'd like more stories about cheaper motor sport -- think Cars and Car Conversions features from the 1970s and how you'd write about Austin 7s on the hills and circuits. I'm not especially interested in Ferrari road cars -- especially promos for cars up for auction. I love the biographical stuff -- lots of competitors have a handful of interesting stories but not enough for a book. If Simon Arron has more to say, I'd like to read it. As I've commented previously, the layout needs a few tweaks to make it more readable.

 

Content that I've enjoyed recently? I find it hard to keep up with all of the classes and regulations for endurance racing, so the Le Mans 2016 build-up was very informative. MS magazine is my primary source for understanding, topped up with selective web searches. Mark Hughes on F1 is good but he could drop Trackside View (commentary about a bit of circuit). I'm not sure whether Word on the Beat (F1 gossip) works given publishing deadlines -- perhaps something for the website?.

 

Gripes aside, MS is still a cracking good read.



#73 Charlieman

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 12:53

Oops, I forgot to say that MS magazine needs new writers. The editor should commission one page articles from bloggers, club magazine contributors etc and see what turns up.



#74 Michael Ferner

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 14:40

A few years ago, we had a range of leisure clothing marketed here under the label "Nature Calling".


:lol: Thanks for a good laugh on a dreary afternoon :lol:

#75 chunder27

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 14:59

Charlie, you it the mail on the head with quirky stories

 

CCC was my all time fave mag, I miss out a lot, not just because of the way modern mags are now, but you literally never knew what you were going to find in there next.

 

I do think the motorsport scene at the time helped, and cars were very different back then, with so many series etc.

 

But if you look worldwide as you can with youtube and the like, there are still some staggering cars competing in all sorts of events in just Europe, let alone the rest of the world.

 

And no magazine really caters for them.

 

You also were able to get under the skin of engine people, suspension people, and these features were long, extensive and detailed.

 

This is an aspect most publishers seem to think we don't want anymore, and we just want to be impressed with lovely design, endless pictures and the like.

 

It's a simple formula really.



#76 MIchaelFeltham

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 18:18

Since these days, regretfully, I must accept I am one of the older citizens, I was reading MS since the late 1950s...

:confused:

 

In the good ol' days, MS was about motor racing. Much of its content and direction was, of course, due to the editor, the late, irreplaceable Bill Boddy;  https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Bill_Boddy

 

Bill had an encylopaedic (forgive my classics background!) knowledge of the sport and the magazine was written by true aficionados for true aficionados.

 

Perhaps, for me, the late Jenk's (Denis Jenkison: Continental Correspondent: who followed the F1 Circus around Europe in his staff E Type Jag - lucky sod!) column, was the highpoint of the whole magazine.

 

Sadly, today, publishing has been taken over by venality (A bit like motor sport I guess) and advertisers pay for the ever increasing production cost.

 

There was only one Boddy; there was only one Jenks: there was only one Motorsport.

 

In our supposedly improved, instant wall-to-wall age of mass communications and globalised business greed, there will be no more.......

 

:(



#77 john aston

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 06:23

Sorry, but  a fair amount of  of MS back in the day was not about motor sport at all. There was lots of copy on ancient pre WW1 marques , things like 'cars in books' (dire), road car stuff (most of which was terrible )  and, as I mentioned above, the endless saga of Wartime Diaires of an RFC officer .And whilst I enjoyed DSJ (even if I often disagreed ) I rarely enjoyed too much of The Bod- perhaps it was an age thing but as a twenty year old in '72 he sounded to me like something from the Jurassic era 

 

Back then , like all magazines , MS was also very much a news organ for the sport - which is of course is no longer needed. What I'd love to see is coverage of things like European hillclimbing  and some more grass roots UK sport - less bloody Goodwood and  more rallycross , drag racing and speed events . We have a lively scene in the UK but you'd never know it from  Autosport. Don't need results but mood pieces oft the type Pete Lyons did so well and Simon Arron still does.    . 



#78 Allan Lupton

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 08:06

Yes, John, you put the case well except that we who are a bit older grew up with the Bod's writings and only got truly fed up during the period when he worked his support for Volkswagen into more or less all his pieces! I wouldn't claim to have been in total agreement with everything the Bod and Jenks wrote, but I enjoyed reading it and was in the happy position of meeting them occasionally (at VSCC and H&BMC events) so I sometimes could take issue directly.

 

Of course the sport has changed since the period when I bought MS (1956-91) with club motor racing and rallying as we knew it consigned to history as a sign of which the magazine put out by the RAC MSA has more articles about how to obtain sponsorship than how to prepare road cars for occasional competition use.

Advertising secondhand cars has also changed and the MS small ads would not be the goldmine it was in the 1950s/1960s - although it's not what MS was published for, even those ads are a useful research source by now!



#79 MIchaelFeltham

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 09:59

Sorry, but  a fair amount of  of MS back in the day was not about motor sport at all. There was lots of copy on ancient pre WW1 marques , things like 'cars in books' (dire), road car stuff (most of which was terrible )  and, as I mentioned above, the endless saga of Wartime Diaires of an RFC officer .And whilst I enjoyed DSJ (even if I often disagreed ) I rarely enjoyed too much of The Bod- perhaps it was an age thing but as a twenty year old in '72 he sounded to me like something from the Jurassic era 

 

Back then , like all magazines , MS was also very much a news organ for the sport - which is of course is no longer needed. What I'd love to see is coverage of things like European hillclimbing  and some more grass roots UK sport - less bloody Goodwood and  more rallycross , drag racing and speed events . We have a lively scene in the UK but you'd never know it from  Autosport. Don't need results but mood pieces oft the type Pete Lyons did so well and Simon Arron still does.    . 

Jenks was most interested in drag racing: "He drove an Allard Dragon dragster and also rode a 648 c.c. Triumph sprint motorcycle in the 1965 Drag Festival.[6] He remained a motorcycle enthusiast, and competed in hillclimbs and sprints on his own Triumph-BSA hybrid well into his seventies."

 

I believe you must accept, today, "Motor Sport" is actually, "Motor Business". I remember listening to Moss being interviewed prior to the British GP quite some years back, by a typical fluffie BBC girlie who kept saying "Motor Sport". Moss disabused her and said "Oh my dear! It isn't a sport any more, sadly. It is a business and a very good business too! To place this into perspective, Michael Schumacher earns more in one week than I earned in my whole career!"

 

Club Racing and various good places to learn one's craft, has all but died: it is now far too expensive and commercial.

 

Gone are the halcyon days of driving tests, trials, autocross (the father of Rally Cross) and sensible club rallying against the clock: not who is faster, you understand, but who manages to go through all the open road stages as near to the set time as possible. It was an innocent combination of navigation skills (no satnavs!) and driving at night often on ice. Great fun and Ioved it!

 

Rally Cross: indeed, it was my old club (TEAC - Thames Estuary Automobile Club) who were perhaps just after BRSCC in organising club championship events, who were asked by ITV to set-up and manage the first UK rally cross events at Lydden Hill.

 

Motor Sport magazine, enjoyed a heritage based in real motor racing and real competition: which sadly no longer exists.

 

Back then , like all magazines , MS was also very much a news organ for the sport - which is of course is no longer needed. What I'd love to see is coverage of things like European hillclimbing  and some more grass roots UK sport - less bloody Goodwood and  more rallycross , drag racing and speed events . We have a lively scene in the UK but you'd never know it from  Autosport. Don't need results but mood pieces oft the type Pete Lyons did so well and Simon Arron still does.   

 

So set up a website, dedicated precisely to this!



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#80 RA Historian

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 14:27

Michael makes a lot of very good points. The situation he observes regarding club racing and the like is mirrored on this side of the pond. SCCA club racing is well down in numbers over the past several years. One example is the Road America June Sprints, long the centerpiece of SCCA  club racing. Up until a few years ago the total entry at this event for all the myriad SCCA classes was in the area of 500 cars. The past two years  have seen 300, a 40% drop. Some classes such as Spec Miata and Spec Racer Ford have large entries, but others are hurting. Used to have 30 or more Formula Vees, now lucky to have half a dozen. I could go on , but you get the picture.

 

There are many reasons for this fall off, financial being a major one, but I also think that the proliferation of various professional support series has had a negative impact on club racing. Spend the same amount of money to a large degree, but with a chance of getting some of it back.

 

But back to the subject at hand. Should Motor Sport print more articles and reports about club events? My answer is no, for a couple reasons. The obvious one is that such reports have no interest this side of the Atlantic. Secondly, as I mentioned just above, interest and numbers have fallen so much that the only readers of such reports would be the small number of us who are involved in the event. The rest of the world would not care.

 

Tom


Edited by RA Historian, 18 July 2016 - 14:28.


#81 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 15:40

I wonder what the circulation numbers are in the U.S. and the UK.

#82 john aston

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 16:34

I am happy enough with the club sport I have seen this season- club racing (with grids of 25- 40), historic racing , hillclimbs , rally cross and drag racing . It's all there to be enjoyed if you make the effort , "Motor business" ? - hardly . All the cash in motor sport is at the top end and there's plenty of guys enjoying themselves on a budget , whether in FF1600 , a Fiesta or a Jedi  .

 

And Sir Stirling banging on about business- pot calling kettle black - in the day he was never one to miss out on a marketing opportunity (" Craven A old boy ?") and he is still doing so, "typical fluffie BBC girlie " - gosh , it's 1965 all over again ..... :drunk:  and doubtless Sir Stirling had to drone on about crumpet as usual.....What next - bring back John Bolster in a deerstalker ? 

 

Things aren't all great of course- club rallying for a spectator is an emasculated joke (cheers MSA ) and tragically we have no single seater racing except historics. There is F4 (not of yore but turbo spec 2 litre Fords ) . I hugely miss F3 and would donate a kidney (maybe even one of my own ) to see F5000 ...ermm... rebooted .   Aside F1 what is popular is BTCC - not my thing ( the wrong crowd and too much crowding ) but stuff like time attack at least gets youngsters in and watching . But some circuits still seem stuck in the dark ages .- awful food, endless delays , inaudible commentary etc 


Edited by john aston, 18 July 2016 - 16:35.


#83 MIchaelFeltham

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 18:50

I am happy enough with the club sport I have seen this season- club racing (with grids of 25- 40), historic racing , hillclimbs , rally cross and drag racing . It's all there to be enjoyed if you make the effort , "Motor business" ? - hardly . All the cash in motor sport is at the top end and there's plenty of guys enjoying themselves on a budget , whether in FF1600 , a Fiesta or a Jedi  .

 

And Sir Stirling banging on about business- pot calling kettle black - in the day he was never one to miss out on a marketing opportunity (" Craven A old boy ?") and he is still doing so, "typical fluffie BBC girlie " - gosh , it's 1965 all over again ..... :drunk:  and doubtless Sir Stirling had to drone on about crumpet as usual.....What next - bring back John Bolster in a deerstalker ? 

 

Things aren't all great of course- club rallying for a spectator is an emasculated joke (cheers MSA ) and tragically we have no single seater racing except historics. There is F4 (not of yore but turbo spec 2 litre Fords ) . I hugely miss F3 and would donate a kidney (maybe even one of my own ) to see F5000 ...ermm... rebooted .   Aside F1 what is popular is BTCC - not my thing ( the wrong crowd and too much crowding ) but stuff like time attack at least gets youngsters in and watching . But some circuits still seem stuck in the dark ages .- awful food, endless delays , inaudible commentary etc 

And Sir Stirling banging on about business- pot calling kettle black - in the day he was never one to miss out on a marketing opportunity (" Craven A old boy ?") and he is still doing so, "typical fluffie BBC girlie " - gosh , it's 1965 all over again ..... :drunk:  and doubtless Sir Stirling had to drone on about crumpet as usual.....What next - bring back John Bolster in a deerstalker ?

 

 

Naturally Moss had to seize each and every passing opportunity! he was a professional racing driver; quite a rare breed in the early 1950s...

 

He made no mention whatsoever about the fairer sex: 'twas me who mentioned the "fluffie BBC girlie".

 

Sadly, the once great BBC has gone the way of all flesh insofar as mass media is concerned, and in thee BBC's case more than the majority, i.e. Politically Correct. Thus we now suffer fluffie girlies who know nada about the item they are "commentating about", spouting breathless media-speek tripe.

 

You might be interested to read an interview with Bolster in, err, Motor Sport from 1942...

 

http://www.motorspor...ew-john-bolster

 

Bolster actually drove Remus (ERA) in the British GP.

 

Doubt the fluffy girlie ever drove a real race car.

 

Worth perhaps remembering without the past and its heroes, then we wouldn't have a future.



#84 john aston

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 06:15

Oddly enough , like most on here, I do know about Bolster's racing career- fine chap and all that  but the reason I mentioned him was to illustrate that times have changed. You may call it PC - I call it our growing up as a society. Much as I loved the racing of the past - or some of it , as it wasn't all good- I certainly wouldn't want to spend any time in the society  I grew up in where women were sacked for being pregnant ,we had horrors like the Black and White Minstrels and rampant racism .I don't know which 'fluffie girlie' (is it really 2016? ) you mean so I can't really comment but what I would say is that driving a racing car - a 'real' one  or not - is no guarantee to commentary excellence. I only have to mention Nigel Mansell's name to prove my point ! (Excellent though Messrs Brundle,. Hill and Coulthard are).And some of the commentary I heard 'back in the day ' was dire - as is the Blue Peter/ Countryfile standard of infantilism now ....

 

There are  plenty of racers from the past I admire hugely and the machinery was often just sublime - but  I  sure don't want to live in 1966 again thanks..    



#85 Mallory Dan

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 11:06

Football was better in 1966, John. And the music....



#86 john winfield

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 11:15

Football was better in 1966, John. And the music....

 

The music wears well, Dan, fully agree. 

But the football? It looks a bit slow now, possibly less skillful?  The football results were better though in the sixties. England win the World Cup, Celtic and Manchester Utd. win the European Cup and Tring Town dominate the Spartan League. Happy days.



#87 Charlieman

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 12:35

Football was better in 1966, John. And the music....

In the UK, the biggest selling musical artist of 1966 was Jim Reeves.



#88 john winfield

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 12:58

In the UK, the biggest selling musical artist of 1966 was Jim Reeves.

 

...despite some disappointing live performances.



#89 BRG

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 18:46

OK, found Automobilsport in WH Smith's and leafed through it.  Not impressed at all.  A load of rubbish about Corvettes and otherwise all about the past.  Isn't that what books are for?  Aren't magazines meant to bring you news about things not previously reported? And far too expensive.  I'll stick to Motor Sport thanks.



#90 LordAston

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 20:30

OK, found Automobilsport in WH Smith's and leafed through it.  Not impressed at all.  A load of rubbish about Corvettes and otherwise all about the past.  Isn't that what books are for?  Aren't magazines meant to bring you news about things not previously reported? And far too expensive.  I'll stick to Motor Sport thanks.


Sorry to hear this. But I like it for numerous reasons one of which is helped by the fact that I'm to coin the term (a spring chicken) so some of these stories are all fascinating to me. Plus like I said in a previous post I have very slim time so a good read without irrelevence suits me. I do not have a the space or b the money to afford books on all the subjects covered.

#91 sabrejet

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 06:00

BRG: if you're looking for articles, "...all about the past" and "things not previously reported" then you're not going to get much fun from MS!! Strange comments on a historic forum, but I'd suggest Autosport. If you like F1...

 

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:



#92 2F-001

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 07:58

OK, found Automobilsport in WH Smith's and leafed through it.  Not impressed at all.  A load of rubbish about Corvettes and otherwise all about the past.  Isn't that what books are for?  Aren't magazines meant to bring you news about things not previously reported? And far too expensive.  I'll stick to Motor Sport thanks.

…which is precisely why I said it had a narrower remit and fulfilled only one of the roles ("all about the past") attempted by Motor Sport - and that it is impossible (or, at least, largely irrelevant) to compare the two.

 

I don't have the latest issue, but I wouldn't have enough knowledge of Corvettes to comment on the quality or veracity of those articles. (Previous articles on topics that I am familiar with seem well-founded and fairly authoritative.)

 

Regarding nomenclature - let's not call it a magazine then, let's call it a series of paperback books!

 

 

 

Is it not a little odd that this discussion is raging on a website owned by an entirely different magazine?

Edited by 2F-001, 20 July 2016 - 08:00.


#93 Stephen W

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 08:50

Isn't that part of why we all keep logging into TNF 2F-001? The fact we can have discussions on here about subject matter not covered by Autosport is one of the reasons I am still an habitué.



#94 2F-001

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 09:01

Yes, indeed it is Stephen. It was intended more as a rhetorical question (and not a little tongue-in-cheek), to be honest. I wasn't intending to comment on the worthiness or otherwise of the discussion itself.



#95 BRG

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 10:37

BRG: if you're looking for articles, "...all about the past" and "things not previously reported" then you're not going to get much fun from MS!! Strange comments on a historic forum, but I'd suggest Autosport. If you like F1...

 

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Point missed a bit, I think. I do not live in the past, but I think it is still interesting.  Equally, new things and events are also interesting, and Motor Sport strikes a good balance - for me at least - between the two.  It is horses for courses.  

 

I find those that have no time for modern day motorsport and apparently have some arbitrary cut-off date after which they will have no truck with later stuff to be a little odd.  But they probably long since concluded that I am a bit odd!  But each to their own.



#96 sabrejet

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 11:49

Horses for courses for me = Automobilsport for historic + Race Tech/Racecar Engineering for modern. Anything else can be usually done by looking at each series website (up-to-date, plus full results), Daily Sportscar, Mariantic etc.

 

Attending a good few races/sprints/hill climbs/events through the year seems to fill in the gaps!



#97 LordAston

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 14:50

Sabrejet mention 'Kerbs' as another magazine. Could you post a link to said magazine as I have tried to find info and turned up nowt.

Edited by LordAston, 20 July 2016 - 14:51.


#98 bschenker

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 15:11

http://www.kerbmotori.com/



#99 Parkesi

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 15:16

https://www.curbs-magazin.com/



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#100 Charlieman

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 15:43

Doubt the fluffy girlie ever drove a real race car.

I doubt that it makes any difference. I think the number of extant "real racing cars" exceeds the number of drivers able to drive them at the limit. Occasionally I've been impressed when a contemporary has a go in a historic car.

 

A commentator is a commentator or an observer. Talking about what happens before you is a special skill; driving a racing car at the limit is another; some people can do both, but inability to do one skill does not disqualify a person from the other.