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Motor Sport magazine - is it as good as it could be?


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#951 Doug Nye

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 20:45

Explains Jonesie's pace, doesn't it?

 

Mailed proof corrections sent on August 15 last - at 17.52 hundred hours pip-emma.  They have a lot on their plate...and centre change (below) evidently passed un-noticed.


"UNDERFLOOR caption - line 2 - delete “sweeping up” and make it “rising from near monocoque-chassis floor level” please
 
"ENGINE caption - line 5 - first valve size should be “34.5mm” - please delete the rogue ‘9’ presently there…
 
"GEARBOX drawing caption - “Hewland FG400” please - delete the ‘B’ of ‘FGB’."
 
However...apart from that, Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?
 
:rolleyes: 
 
DCN


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#952 Sterzo

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 21:33

I haven't read much of the October issue but I do hope that the editor suffered no ill effects after "scoffing blackberries" at Brands Hatch. We used to warn visiting marshals not to sample these as the blackberry bushes served as urinals every time a GP circuit meeting was held. Hopefully consumption is less dangerous now that MSV have provided us with portaloos.   

A vintage spectator at the 24th August VSCC meeting was very publicly watering the plants between races, so the practice has not entirely died out.



#953 john aston

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 06:54

He had probably drowned his sorrows at being fleeced for 30 quid for entry and programme, more for grandstand  for a sleepy little meeting with a so so entry where the first race started about 3 pm ... I dropped in as I was there for Sun/Mon CSCC duties . I normally have a lot of time for VSCC/MSV events  but this was daylight robbery . I get CSCC free but believe it was 16 quid and free grandstand . 



#954 2F-001

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 08:48

The GP circuit meeting at the weekend  (GT Cup etc) was 16 quid too - and quite a bit cheaper if one got one's act together and booked in advance (or had a mate who was competing...). Pretty good value really compared with many other meetings (eg. basic admission at the recent MotoGP, where on Silverstone's wide open spaces you need good eyesight to discern the evidence of motorbikes on track).

 

I did not sample (or irrigate) Brand's food crops though... honestly.

 

(It was interesting to note at the GT Cup meeting that the quickest competitiors in the (hugely well-supported) Mag 7s race would have been mid-grid amongst some half-million Euro Huracans, GT3R and the like.)


Edited by 2F-001, 03 September 2019 - 08:48.


#955 Allen Brown

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 12:03

I know this is OT, but to follow up the Zerex special posts, Paul Lawrence in Autosport has now repeated the owner's claims:

 

https://www.pressrea...282754883396117



#956 Tim Murray

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 14:44

Very disappointing. The author of that article can’t even write McLaren correctly. :well:

#957 proviz

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 15:06

Unbelievable! Who's responsible for subbing that? Answer demanded!



#958 Allen Brown

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 15:07

Very disappointing. The author of that article can’t even write McLaren correctly. :well:

 

That could be due to it being reformatted by pressreader.  Paul Lawrence is better than that.  



#959 RA Historian

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 16:25

It is annoying to see this crap repeated by people who should know better. It has been demonstrated that this car is a replica, and very little, if any, of the original is in it.



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#960 D28

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 17:19

That could be due to it being reformatted by pressreader.  Paul Lawrence is better than that.  

I was wondering the same. Can someone look at a real print copy and let us know of the spelling issue.



#961 Sterzo

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 19:44

The print version renders McLaren correctly throughout. Buried in the text is the sentence: "Some have questioned the car's authenticity, and prefer to call it a recreation, but would they prefer not to see the machine racing at all?" Which seems a bit of a non sequitur to me.



#962 Tim Murray

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 19:57

The print version renders McLaren correctly throughout.


Fair enough. My apologies to Mr Lawrence for attributing the fault to him.

#963 Sterzo

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 15:39

It illustrates what any of us with a website knew anyway - converted text needs poof reading or else you end up with errorors.



#964 Michael Ferner

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 08:12

It illustrates what any of us with a website knew anyway - converted text needs poof reading or else you end up with errorors.


Signed, proofreader.

#965 john winfield

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 10:40

I'm pretty sure Sterzo was being iconic.



#966 Michael Ferner

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:58

Oh, I'm sorry if I came over as pedantic. It was intended as an impromptu joke, kindof sorta :blush:

#967 john winfield

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 14:03

Oh, I'm sorry if I came over as pedantic. It was intended as an impromptu joke, kindof sorta :blush:

 

I no, Michael, I no. Same hear.  



#968 Allen Brown

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 15:05

Your all very funny.



#969 DCapps

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 18:04

This October 2019 issue finally appeared on this side of the Atlantic this afternoon....

 

October 2019 issue, pages 104 - 105. Adjustment of photo comment concerning Barney Oldfield in No. 14 Maxwell:
It is not Santa Monica, November 1914.
The photo was taken during the San Diego Exposition race on the Point Loma peninsula, on Saturday, 9 January 1915. Barney Olfield and mechanic George Hill in a 450-cubic inch Maxwell. The Maxwell was entered by Harry Lord's Lord Motor Car Co., the Los Angeles Maxwell agency. Oldfield went out on lap 37 (distance was 51 laps of 5.9 miles) when the Maxwell caught fire. The sister car, No. 17 Maxwell driven by Billy Carlson, finished second behind Earl Cooper in a Stutz.
 

 

Robert Dick is correct, of course. Given that there was not even a race held on the Santa Monica course in November 1914, it would be quite difficult for Oldfield to have his photograph taken there. Not to mention that there is not a section of the Santa Monica course that matches the background. There was, however, an event held at Corona that month, with Oldfield finishing second, but, yet again, the background not matching anything of the area around the course -- which as a circular boulevard running through both business and residential areas.

 

Also, to state that, "America's sports writers voted him national champion in 1905," is incorrect, of course. They did no such thing, the title was earned by Oldfield based upon points earned in the events comprising the championship which was sanctioned by the AAA and its Racing Board. While writers at various publications might agree with others in their choices of champion drivers for several years during the 'Teens, there was not in any shape or form a poll of the writers for such a title.

 

And, having sat next to Doug at that symposium in 2007, it would be an understatement to suggest that the whole paint-scraping notion doesn't hold water, especially given that pesky facts just seem to keep getting in the way.



#970 Doug Nye

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 18:20

So 'MS' got something right then, Don...?    ;)

 

DCN



#971 BRG

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 19:44

This October 2019 issue finally appeared on this side of the Atlantic this afternoon...

And it is still only 17 September.  Ain't time travel wonderful!



#972 DCapps

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 23:28

So 'MS' got something right then, Don...?    ;)

 

DCN

 

Well, I haven't looked at the entire issue, so....



#973 john winfield

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:51

Do I understand from the thread in this site's Website Feedback forum that Motor Sport and Autosport are threatened with closure, or sale to any interested buyer?



#974 2F-001

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 13:33

I'm not sure I can comment on what you understand - or don't, John -  :)  - but I don't think 'Motor Sport' (the magazine) has any connection to Motorsport Network. Autosport does. Beyond that, I know nothing...


Edited by 2F-001, 20 September 2019 - 13:34.


#975 john winfield

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 13:51

I'm not sure I can comment on what you understand - or don't, John -  :)  - but I don't think 'Motor Sport' (the magazine) has any connection to Motorsport Network. Autosport does. Beyond that, I know nothing...

 

Come on Tony, I thought you were psychic!  :wave:  But I think you're right. The company website shows Autosport and F1 Racing as 'brands' owned by Motorsport Network, but I don't see Motor Sport. Worrying times though for Autosport staff. 



#976 Allen Brown

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 14:09

When a company starts referring to its "assets" as "brands", you know they've lost sight of their customers.



#977 Doug Nye

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 19:44

Preceding post: sad - but true.

 

DCN



#978 LittleChris

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 21:37

After 45 years of buying pretty much every MS ( the last 20 or so as a subscriber ) I decided not to renew my subscription last month.

 

It had got to the point where I only really had an interest in DCN, Mat Oxley and some of Gordon Cruickshanks columns and as someone who retained every copy could not justify the additional " of no interest " amount of combustible material in the loft .

 

What I found rather sad is that my cancellation email was just accepted. No one contacted me to try to persuade me to renew or perhaps take up a digital subscription, it was just accepted that I no longer wanted the " product" . :(    


Edited by LittleChris, 20 September 2019 - 21:37.


#979 mfd

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 00:48

Similar for me Chris...

 

Bombarded by e-mail & surface for the last three Months reminding me the subscription was ending. I wrote to them, why I wasn't renewing & received a "we have passed your comments onto the Editorial Team" 

 

Of course I had to think long & hard about what to do with a pair of Lotus 49 socks, should I re-subscribe

 



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#980 dwh43scale

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 05:59

Might I suggest that you look at the Readly app. Whilst it does require a tablet to access, it does have a wide range of magazines of every genre for a tenner a month. The ability to screen grab means that a copy can be kept of anything interesting and pages can be zoomed to look at detail. As a bonus Motorsport News (or Motoring News for those with longer memories of the newspaper) has never looked so good !

It’s not paper, granted, but it might work for some.

#981 SamoanAttorney

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 07:33

Might I suggest that you look at the Readly app. Whilst it does require a tablet to access, it does have a wide range of magazines of every genre for a tenner a month. The ability to screen grab means that a copy can be kept of anything interesting and pages can be zoomed to look at detail. As a bonus Motorsport News (or Motoring News for those with longer memories of the newspaper) has never looked so good !

It’s not paper, granted, but it might work for some.

I pay £7.99 per month for my Readly sub..............plus you can read on a computer but you cannot download but you can on a tablet or phone.........almost any magazine worth reading is on their menu.............



#982 ensign14

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 08:38

There is the existential problem with Motor Sport quite apart from the current environment.  There are only so many stories it can tell that are fresh and original.  Essentially the new stories are not being added at the right rate.  In some way that is a good thing, there is no need for a glut of "what-ifs" or obituaries or whatever, but it is a sign of season homogenization.  Motor Sport in 20 years' time will look back on the careers of Hamilton and Alonso, the Audi era at Le Mans, Scott Dixon, Sebastian Loeb...and beyond that there is not much of the sort of charisma you'd get if you were in 1980 looking back at 1960.  No Targa Florio, no trans-continental rallies, very few drivers switching disciplines, no dirt tracks on the Champcar circuit.  Even the windmill tilting like Connew has more or less gone by the board and there are no engineering breakthroughs that really capture the imagination.  The science and tech, yes; but they're not visible.

 

Motor Sport has probably gone over every major thing to write about at least twice by now, so it must be difficult to get new stuff without talking about the new stuff.  The untold stories are perhaps too parochial.  I'd love to read about what it was like for a John Campbell-Jones at the back of the GP grid for years, or Cecil Gordon achieving wonders on a zero budget in NASCAR, but would that sell beyond the hardcore - who would buy it anyway?



#983 Myhinpaa

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 11:01

Automobilsport manages to find "new" stuff to write about though : https://www.automobi...mobilsport.html

 

Latest issue covers when European hillclimb were attended by works teams etc. Also rallying and saloon car racing have not been

covered very well by the post-97 Motorsport magazine. Why not write about when Bjorn Waldegaard did the Targa for Porsche in an 908.

 

More in depth coverage of the technical issues have been sadly lacking for many years too. A long time ago photos of engines and other

essential parts of a racing car was no longer featured, in place came repetitive and boring photos by what was possible a frustrated photographer

who had ambitions of making it into the more arty segments of his craft. Which would not include anything with an engine or wheels!

 

The writings on rallying in MS since its relaunch was mediocre, at best! Even an interview with Ari Vatanen was difficult to get through....

Also as proven by the recently launched, and brilliant Lotus 72 documentary, there is plenty of untold stories if a bit of research is done.

 

I can only speculate if lack this in MS and other publications is due to lack of imagination or snobbery, perhaps both?

 

Another magazine that manages to remain fresh and find new and interesting stuff from the past is https://www.classicracer.com/

 

So regarding the broken down relationship between many of us and Motorsport magazine. "It's not us, it's them"   (IMHO)

 

I myself subscribed for 20 years since the relaunch in '97, when they started to pile up - mostly unread - I gave up.

 

PS. Albeit writing only on the modern stuff, Mark Hughes and Mat Oxley is writing high quality articles in MS, still....

       However the lack of similar writings on the core (?) historic stuff is baffling.

 

       Also the trend (one writer in particular) of "woke" issues, "Transgender people in electric racing cars" etc. seems misplaced.

       And again there are other publication who cover such issues much better than MS, for those who are interested that is.

 

       The coverage of modern road cars seems also misplaced (and the writer...) There are much better magazines for that.

       Not that I want to, but if I wanted to read about the "new 18 speed automatic gearbox" in the latest Porsche Cayenne it would not be in MS!

 

       Strangely enough I found a quote from John Lennon very suitable :

 

       “Trying to please everybody is impossible — if you did that, you’d end up in the middle with nobody liking you. 

          You’ve just got to make the decision about what you think is your best, and do it.”


Edited by Myhinpaa, 21 September 2019 - 18:50.


#984 ensign14

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 19:13

It wouldn't surprise me though if Automobilsport were half the content for twice the price...big print, lots of pictures, lots of space.



#985 jtremlett

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 21:15

It wouldn't surprise me though if Automobilsport were half the content for twice the price...big print, lots of pictures, lots of space.

I doubt that's far from the truth.  I like Automobilsport and I agree with Myhinpaa above that they are proving (if indeed it needed to be proven) that there are still plenty of interesting things to write about.  However, many of their articles could easily do with quite a lot more text because there's actually a whole lot more to tell if only they'd find the space in which to tell it.



#986 Steve99

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 08:13

I pay £7.99 per month for my Readly sub..............plus you can read on a computer but you cannot download but you can on a tablet or phone.........almost any magazine worth reading is on their menu.............

 

Indeed, I recommended it on here a while back. It allows me to read the mags I want to read, as well as bits from those that only part interest me. It's a great app.



#987 Sterzo

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 09:16

There is the existential problem with Motor Sport quite apart from the current environment.  There are only so many stories it can tell that are fresh and original.  Essentially the new stories are not being added at the right rate...

 

...I 'd love to read about what it was like for a John Campbell-Jones at the back of the GP grid for years, or Cecil Gordon achieving wonders on a zero budget in NASCAR, but would that sell beyond the hardcore - who would buy it anyway?

Thought-provoking post. Perhaps the answer is to invoke the spirit of Boddy. He produced the quirky magazine that he wanted to read, without caring whether anyone else did. We all lapped up compressed grey text on twenties cyclecars, or places where Parry Thomas might have stopped on the way to somewhere else, in between DSJ's accounts of Gordini drivers' surprise at their cars not breaking down.

 

Even today, the best features are often the ones least expected to please. Lunches with rally navigators (and I don't follow rallying). Inside stories of junior series team bosses. And think of the stuff not in Motor Sport, but revealed in biographies and auto biographies of Newey and Barnard. The technical secrets of nineties GP cars - surely they can be told now?

 

I suspect people can relate to the quirkiness of real enthusiasm; maybe that John Campbell-Jones article would boost circulation.



#988 SamoanAttorney

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 10:29

I doubt that's far from the truth.  I like Automobilsport and I agree with Myhinpaa above that they are proving (if indeed it needed to be proven) that there are still plenty of interesting things to write about.  However, many of their articles could easily do with quite a lot more text because there's actually a whole lot more to tell if only they'd find the space in which to tell it.

 

I am sitting here grinding out a very long piece for the next issue of Automobilsport, over 5,000 words scribbled and I am not quite at the halfway point.........let's hope that it meets with the approval of the discerning bunch who hang out in TNF ...........gulp!



#989 Gary Davies

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 11:10

I am sitting here grinding out a very long piece for the next issue of Automobilsport, over 5,000 words scribbled and I am not quite at the halfway point.........let's hope that it meets with the approval of the discerning bunch who hang out in TNF ...........gulp!

 

Discerning is a terrifically polite term, sir. I applaud you.

 

Some, on the other hand, might say that "Pettifoggery obsessives" is closer to the mark.



#990 SamoanAttorney

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 11:12

Discerning is a terrifically polite term, sir. I applaud you.

 

Some, on the other hand, might say that "Pettifoggery obsessives" is closer to the mark.

 

Guilty as charged, M'Lord



#991 bradbury west

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 15:16

I suspect people can relate to the quirkiness of real enthusiasm; maybe that John Campbell-Jones article would boost circulation.


You would then get to know what the Emery Twin Engined Mini was like... plus learning about unintended ground effect on a four pot Climax engined f one car some years prior to Mr Chapman and his ideas, and also what the Godiva engined single seater was like, plus life at the early Lotus works etcetc etc. John was also a Goodwood regular in its heyday.
I have always found John to be delightful company, and approaching ninety next January still very lucid and clear of memory.
I cannot claim to be a usual disclaimer....
Roger Lund

#992 sabrejet

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 17:06

I am sitting here grinding out a very long piece for the next issue of Automobilsport, over 5,000 words scribbled and I am not quite at the halfway point.........let's hope that it meets with the approval of the discerning bunch who hang out in TNF ...........gulp!

 

I've yet to see a bad article in Automobilsport, which is a very rare thing to say about a magazine. And I even read the F1 stuff, which is somehow made to look and sound interesting! And good luck with your submission - I look forward to reading it and maintaining a 100% record!



#993 Sterzo

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 21:38

You would then get to know what the Emery Twin Engined Mini was like... plus learning about unintended ground effect on a four pot Climax engined f one car some years prior to Mr Chapman and his ideas, and also what the Godiva engined single seater was like, plus life at the early Lotus works etcetc etc. John was also a Goodwood regular in its heyday.
I have always found John to be delightful company, and approaching ninety next January still very lucid and clear of memory.
I cannot claim to be a usual disclaimer....
Roger Lund

Great to hear! Used to see him racing at Oulton Park in the late fifties, and in the sixties lived near the Paul Emery workshop (or was it a collapsed corrugated iron shed?).



#994 wolf sun

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 06:50

It wouldn't surprise me though if Automobilsport were half the content for twice the price...big print, lots of pictures, lots of space.

Now that‘s what I call valid criticism. :rolleyes:

#995 Allen Brown

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 08:51

There are so many subjects to write about!

 

About once a month, I have to write roughly 4,000-5,000 words about a particular racing car.  I don't get much choice on the subject matter, as it depends who my dossier customers are, but the story always has interest.  Recent topics I have found myself writing about include: Rhodesian motor racing up to 1980; how Hewland transformed racing gearboxes; the build up to Shadow's Austrian GP victory; Cooper's Lowline T53; the birth of March; Australian sports car racing in the late 1960s; the first honeycomb monocoques; Kauhsen; Lola's early steel monocoques; the other Weslake V12; etc, etc...

 

The idea that people only want to read about the Lotus 49, the Cosworth DFV, the Lotus 72, Jim Clark, etc really needs to be challenged.  There is an almost endless supply of interesting stories if writers are willing to dig into primary sources and put the pieces together.



#996 nexfast

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 20:35

Rhodesian motor racing up to 1980

 

Is there any chance of reading it somewhere or is it exclusively for the interested customer?



#997 Steve99

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 08:03

There are so many subjects to write about!

 

About once a month, I have to write roughly 4,000-5,000 words about a particular racing car.  I don't get much choice on the subject matter, as it depends who my dossier customers are, but the story always has interest.  Recent topics I have found myself writing about include: Rhodesian motor racing up to 1980; how Hewland transformed racing gearboxes; the build up to Shadow's Austrian GP victory; Cooper's Lowline T53; the birth of March; Australian sports car racing in the late 1960s; the first honeycomb monocoques; Kauhsen; Lola's early steel monocoques; the other Weslake V12; etc, etc...

 

The idea that people only want to read about the Lotus 49, the Cosworth DFV, the Lotus 72, Jim Clark, etc really needs to be challenged.  There is an almost endless supply of interesting stories if writers are willing to dig into primary sources and put the pieces together.

 

This sounds excellent! I second the question above. Can we read it?



#998 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 08:26

My parents always said I learnt to read with Motor Sport and I used to cut the photos out from the middle section for my scrap book. I've read it ever since except for during the "Red" period;. It did improve over the years and even recently we had Simon's monthly report of cubby events (the sort that I do) and Dickie Meaden who was a good writer and told it as it was in historic racing.  Of course Doug's articles are great but who is the current editor - what is his CV? he does not seem to be involved in the sport in any way. What was his previous position? 

Standards are slipping, in nearly every issue there are errors, even down to photos captions that the average reader can see but not the editor.  

A friends remarked that he could not afford to buy anything that was advertised in MS and that may be the problem. Only a small percentage of readers can by cars that are worth more than our homes but that keeps the advertising revenue coming in. I would also suggest that many of the buyers of very expensive cars are not that interested in motorsport or it's history. Hence the more popularist articles about cars and people they are likely to have heard of.

There used to be a forum on the website but that appears to have gone, perhaps the current editor did not like the comments?  I've written a couple of times with what I hoped were constructive comment and not even got a reply. I do assume that that editor does have a look at forums like this from time to time to see what his readers think. If not shame on him.

I must admit I may well consider my renewal when it comes round in about six months. 



#999 nicanary

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 08:53

My parents always said I learnt to read with Motor Sport and I used to cut the photos out from the middle section for my scrap book. I've read it ever since except for during the "Red" period;. It did improve over the years and even recently we had Simon's monthly report of cubby events (the sort that I do) and Dickie Meaden who was a good writer and told it as it was in historic racing.  Of course Doug's articles are great but who is the current editor - what is his CV? he does not seem to be involved in the sport in any way. What was his previous position? 

Standards are slipping, in nearly every issue there are errors, even down to photos captions that the average reader can see but not the editor.  

A friends remarked that he could not afford to buy anything that was advertised in MS and that may be the problem. Only a small percentage of readers can by cars that are worth more than our homes but that keeps the advertising revenue coming in. I would also suggest that many of the buyers of very expensive cars are not that interested in motorsport or it's history. Hence the more popularist articles about cars and people they are likely to have heard of.

There used to be a forum on the website but that appears to have gone, perhaps the current editor did not like the comments?  I've written a couple of times with what I hoped were constructive comment and not even got a reply. I do assume that that editor does have a look at forums like this from time to time to see what his readers think. If not shame on him.

I must admit I may well consider my renewal when it comes round in about six months. 

In the review of the new HWM book, both selected photographs are incorrectly captioned. Is this acceptable in "the authoritative voice of the sport" ?



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#1000 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
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Posted 24 September 2019 - 13:09

A friends remarked that he could not afford to buy anything that was advertised in MS and that may be the problem. Only a small percentage of readers can by cars that are worth more than our homes but that keeps the advertising revenue coming in. I would also suggest that many of the buyers of very expensive cars are not that interested in motorsport or it's history. Hence the more popularist articles about cars and people they are likely to have heard of.

 

This is an exceedingly good point.  Maybe that is the audience MS is now aimed at, because that's the audience the advertisers care about.