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Motor Sport magazine - is it as good as it could be?


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#101 MIchaelFeltham

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 17:04

I doubt that it makes any difference. I think the number of extant "real racing cars" exceeds the number of drivers able to drive them at the limit. Occasionally I've been impressed when a contemporary has a go in a historic car.

 

A commentator is a commentator or an observer. Talking about what happens before you is a special skill; driving a racing car at the limit is another; some people can do both, but inability to do one skill does not disqualify a person from the other.

The young woman interviewing Moss was not one of the regular motor sport commentators.

 

She was the prototypical BBC radio four young gushing talking head who clearly knew naff all about the subject.

 

Talking about what happens before you is a special skill

 

Agree: I have been a live commentator for club events. And walked around the paddock, chatting to the drivers - many of whom I knew - asking pertinent questions about their cars; and walked around the course.

 

driving a racing car at the limit is another

 

Very few people truly can! Particularly lap after lap...  ;)



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#102 sabrejet

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 17:41

Sabrejet mention 'Kerbs' as another magazine. Could you post a link to said magazine as I have tried to find info and turned up nowt.

Apologies: curbs.



#103 Charlieman

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 17:56

She was the prototypical BBC radio four young gushing talking head who clearly knew naff all about the subject.

 

It often helps if the interviewer (or the researcher in the background) knows about the topic. Not always.

 

If the interviewee reckons that the interviewer is out of depth, the interviewee has ample chance to sell the book or argue about whatever is topical. Bernie Ecclestone is more likely to talk cobblers when talking to someone who is not an F1 specialist. 



#104 john aston

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 05:15

He talks his own unique brand of crass, gnomic gibberish to Messrs Coulthard and Brundle. let alone 'civilians'



#105 Stephen W

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 08:48

My favourite Bernie question was when Murray Walker asked a long convoluted question about Bernie buying an F1 team. Unfortunately Murray intimated that Bernie had bought McLaren. Bernie's answer was perfect "I don't remember buying McLaren!"

 

:lol:



#106 AlexLangheck

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 07:24

What is Motorsport for? We've seen an historic result on Rally Finland, with Kris Meeke taking the win - and nothing on the website, nor nothing tweeted about it. Have they dropped rallying? Or do they dip in and out when it suits them?



#107 BRG

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 19:02

There's a video report there now - maybe a bit slow but it's there.  Motor Sport has never been the place to go about rallying though.



#108 john aston

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 05:31

I did like Ecclestone's comment to Max Mosley about the $100m  McLaren Spygate saga- 'Ron got fined $1m for cheating and $99m for being a c****'......'



#109 F1matt

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 10:54

There's a video report there now - maybe a bit slow but it's there.  Motor Sport has never been the place to go about rallying though.

 

 

They did great coverage of the Group B days.....



#110 john aston

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 15:34

Perhaps because they had great source material ? Parptastic four pot identicar hatches driven on anodyne stages in short doses , and with spectators virtually legislated out of the equation in the UK don't really cut the mustard.  :wave: 



#111 Charlieman

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 17:22

Motor Sport magazine had some great coverage (and photos) of the Group 2+ era.



#112 BRG

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 20:47

identicar hatches

Like the Lancia Delta, Peugeot 205, Mazda 323, Metro 6R4 etc you mean?



#113 Charlieman

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 21:07

On one of the Northern Ireland biker TV programmes, one of the Dunlops showed off the Escort in his garage. Mark II chassis with a BD engine. Looked nifty.



#114 DCapps

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 21:35

I will admit to having very mixed feelings regarding Motor Sport, both past and present. That said, it is one of remaining two automotive periodicals that I still subscribe to these days, the other being Vintage Motorsport after finally dropping Vintage Racecar Journal (or whatever it is called now...) a few months back. I debated long and hard as to whether to renew or not, but opted to do in great part thanks to Doug's material. Many of the problems/issues/whatever others have voiced regarding the magazine were part of the hesitation, but it is more of a habit than anything else now, my reading it since about 1954 or so. However, I do see the day where I finally drop it and Vintage Motorsport. These days I spent far, far more time reading the seven or eight or so academic journals and other related periodicals that I get than I do MS or VM.

 

As to the original question, of course, there is little doubt that it could be "better," but what that would actually entail and how well it would be accepted in an increasingly non-literate word is a question that begs much thought.



#115 john aston

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 05:47

Like the Lancia Delta, Peugeot 205, Mazda 323, Metro 6R4 etc you mean?

  Ahem- whilst a 6R4 looked and sounded nothing remotely like a MG Metro the current breed of wheezy turbo hot hatches in WRC sound very similar to what's coming to a multiplex car park near you . And look not much better than most of them either..  



#116 P.Dron

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 15:36

I did like Ecclestone's comment to Max Mosley about the $100m  McLaren Spygate saga- 'Ron got fined $1m for cheating and $99m for being a c****'......'

The insufferable Inner Pedant writes: I presume you mean "c***".

 

And who won in the long run, even putting aside the suggestion that McLaren never paid anything like the $100 million fine?


Edited by P.Dron, 04 August 2016 - 15:42.


#117 BRG

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 18:41

  Ahem- whilst a 6R4 looked and sounded nothing remotely like a MG Metro the current breed of wheezy turbo hot hatches in WRC sound very similar to what's coming to a multiplex car park near you . And look not much better than most of them either..  

The Metro was the only maverick,  The others were small hatchbacks with 1600cc turbo engines.  Sound familiar at all?  In fact, the engine note is very familiar.

 

The current WRCs are faster than the most excessive of the Gp B cars which were pretty agricultural by comparison.  So presumably you prefer slower, less sophisticated and massively less safe cars?



#118 chunder27

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 19:04

They might be faster pver a stage, but let's be honest a Delta HF 4WD was quicker over most stages than a 037 after only a few weeks testing, but they sound asthmatic by comparison. They don't look as cool or sexy, they are easier to drive, and they don't make you say wow when they go past.

 

Other than that they are broadly similar yes.



#119 john aston

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 06:35

The Metro was the only maverick,  The others were small hatchbacks with 1600cc turbo engines.  Sound familiar at all?  In fact, the engine note is very familiar.

 

The current WRCs are faster than the most excessive of the Gp B cars which were pretty agricultural by comparison.  So presumably you prefer slower, less sophisticated and massively less safe cars?

 You  must have been watching a different sport. Peugeot T16 205 had a mid engine 1770 turbo 4 engine; Sport Quattro a 5 cylinder turbo 2,1 litre ; Delta S4 a turbo and supercharged 4  cylinder 1800; RS 200 a mid engined turbo 4 of 1.8 litres and Metro mid engined n/a V6 . Cars produced between 350 and near 600 bhp. The cars had a huge diversity of sound and were far , far louder than current crop - ever heard a Sport Quattro coming through a forest at 3am, ? . 

 

Of course I prefer slower . less sophisticated cars even if they were more dangerous. If I didn't I'd be telling  you that a Golf GTI is a superior car to a Bugatti T35 and that today's wheezy Formula 4 is better than a Ferrari 312T , let alone a 250F, because it laps quicker. If lap speed  is your sole metric you might just be on the wrong forum  :yawnface:   


Edited by john aston, 05 August 2016 - 15:42.


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#120 BRG

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 19:35

ever heard a Sport Quattro coming through a forest at 3am,

 

Oh yes, several times.  Pity they handled like a rowing boat.



#121 chunder27

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 21:51

Which sadly is why cars like that are more evocative and spine tingling, unlike a DS3 or a Xsara, which no doubt are hard to drive, but don't LOOK hard to drive. They don't sound angry, they don't have massive lag and an H pattern garbox, which required a very specific technique that not many could master. Bit like riding a 500 compared to a modern day GP bike.

 

Bit like comparing a Vettel Red Bull qually lap with a Benetton B186 on qualifying boost around Monza. The skills are similar but one just looks harder to do and drive, the other probably requires as much skill, but to the layman looks incident free and like driving on a train track.



#122 john aston

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 05:55

I think rowing boat handling was an impossible dream ...But that's what time does- render the extraordinary mundane . So in 2016 a BMW 6 pot diesel would go far, far quicker than virtually anything from Jaguar , Maserati . Lamborghini or Ferrari back in the day  . But whilst I can get very moist about a Miura I can't say I fantasise too often about the estimable 330D !  

 

Stuff like the Sport Quattro (or BT52 . 917  or RS1800 ) made me fall in love with motor sport . So what if  modern white goods is quicker - like an Airbus beats a Spitfire?   



#123 nmansellfan

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 15:59

I've just spent an hour playing about with the PC sim 'Automobilista', which has, amongst other cars available, a modern F3 car and 1975/76 F1 cars (one model based on the Brabham BT44 and one licensed model of the Copersucar).  The physics in Automobilista are generally regarded in the sim world as pretty accurate.  I hotlapped round the modern Montreal circuit in the F3 and the Brabham, and I can lap around about two seconds a lap faster in the BT44 than the F3 car at the most.  I reckon someone with a bit more talent behind the virtual wheel could probably lap with both cars a second or so faster, and reduce the gap between them as well.  Both are hard to lap on the limit, but in different ways.  The F3 car is all about using the downforce and late braking, and the BT44 is all about smooth corner exits (not my forte!) to maximise its speed advantage.  As a comparison, I was touching 155mph before braking into the final chicane in the F3 car, and 175mph in the BT44 at the same point.

 

They were both fun to drive in the sim, but the BT44 was much more entertaining, and the DFV screaming toward 10,500 sounds a lot better than the F3's motor!

 

If you are into sim racing, I highly recommend Automobilista.  There are GP cars based on the modern hybrid era, the 2.4L V8 era, the 3.0 V10 era, a mid 90's V12 Ferrari, the '88 McLaren MP4/4, and soon there will be a DFV V8 / V12 versions of late 60's GP cars available.  There are also period versions of the original Kyalami, the Österreichring, Jacarepagua, and Interlagos we well as the full Buenos Aires circuits 12 and 15.  Not to mention modern and classic Brazilian Stock Cars, V8 supercars, Karts, Stadium trucks and more!

 

Back on topic, I've had Motorsport on subscription only in it's modern era, since about '99.  The only bit I usually skim read, or come back to last, is Andrew Frankel's road car reviews - I get the impression he has driven so many fast road cars (and sampled quick racing cars as well) that he has become blasé about anything other than hypercars, which the average to fairly wealthy reader will probably never experience.  Maybe that's a trait amongst car journalists?


Edited by nmansellfan, 06 August 2016 - 16:18.


#124 LordAston

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 09:50

I hate to have to say this to the fans of Lunch with in Motor Sport but you will not be seeing it any more from now on. But at least it is with Sir Jackie Stewart. Best to go out on a high.

#125 charles r

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 10:16

So too departs Damien Smith, who I thought did a pretty good job during his stint as editor.



#126 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 19:39

I hate to have to say this to the fans of Lunch with in Motor Sport but you will not be seeing it any more from now on. But at least it is with Sir Jackie Stewart. Best to go out on a high.

This is very, very disappointing.

It would be worthwhile reprinting all of these in book form.. Anybody at MS listening?

Edited by Jack-the-Lad, 27 August 2016 - 19:40.


#127 DCapps

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 19:46

This is very, very disappointing.

It would be worthwhile reprinting all of these in book form.. Anybody at MS listening?

 

Are you aware that this has already taken place, at least to a certain extent? http://speedreaders....s-conversation/



#128 LittleChris

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 20:50

So too departs Damien Smith, who I thought did a pretty good job during his stint as editor.


I agree. Farewell & good luck for the future Damien if you're reading this

#129 crooky369

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 22:50

Surprised to see the disappointment from so many posters in here although most of them do seem to be long term subscribers...

I've subscribed for a few years now after picking up a copy before a trip away a few years ago where I was pleasantly surprised on the sheer amount of content a single magazine can fit in.

Maybe a tad harsh here but going back to Autosport and F1 Racing which I read previously feels like I'm going back to read the Beano such is the difference in the quality of the articles.

#130 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 28 August 2016 - 00:46

Are you aware that this has already taken place, at least to a certain extent? http://speedreaders....s-conversation/


Thanks, Don. I didn't realize this.

I wonder why the feature will be discontinued. Surely Simon couldn't have tired of such a great assignment.

#131 Jan Holmskov

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Posted 28 August 2016 - 06:20

There is now a very entertaining Podcast with Simon Taylor on the Motorsport website.  Simon starts with an explanation of why he has decided stop the Lunch With interviews.

 

I also enjoyed the recent Podcasts with Derek Warwick and Alastair Caldwell very much.  Subscribing to Motorsport will hopefully help keep the Podcasts going.

 

Jan



#132 cooper997

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Posted 28 August 2016 - 08:54

I've just finished watching Simon's podcast. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Don't be afraid to make a 'Lunch' comeback sooner than 10 years on, Simon!

 

Now Ed needs to sit Doug Nye down in a similar manner and get him to tell us his interesting adventures involved in motoring journalism..

 

http://www.motorspor...n-mercedes-benz

 

Stephen



#133 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 28 August 2016 - 14:45

Thank you for the link, Stephen.

#134 jtremlett

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Posted 28 August 2016 - 15:28

Thanks, Don. I didn't realize this.

I wonder why the feature will be discontinued. Surely Simon couldn't have tired of such a great assignment.

The Motorsport website makes clear that Lunch With will not be stopping (although Simon Taylor is). Adam Cooper will be the interviewer for the next one and Jacques Villeneuve the interviewee although they say it won't always be the same person on interview duties.

Jonathan

Edited by jtremlett, 28 August 2016 - 15:29.


#135 kayemod

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Posted 28 August 2016 - 15:43

I wonder why the feature will be discontinued. Surely Simon couldn't have tired of such a great assignment.

 

Seems to me that Simon is just getting on a bit and wants a rest, they can't be easy some of those 'Lunch' features, there's a lot of work involved. Maybe he's just looking forward to an easier life with less travelling.

 

Those kind of feelings will come to most of us eventually, probably happen to me in another twenty or thirty years or so...



#136 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 28 August 2016 - 17:44

Thanks, Jonathan and Rob. That wasn't clear to me until after I had posted and then listened to the podcast.

#137 JacnGille

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 01:03

Now Ed needs to sit Doug Nye down in a similar manner and get him to tell us his interesting adventures involved in motoring journalism..

 

:up:



#138 foxyracer

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 12:07

In general, I like it.  I've been buying it since 1965 and still find I read 70% of it, especially Nigel Roebuck, Doug Nye and Simon Taylor although it seems the latter has been put on a diet!  I don't like Moto GP, nothing against it but if I want to read about it I will buy a bike mag.  I tend not to read the modern F.1 stuff either, mainly because I have lost interest in it.  For that reason I might actually ditch my Autosport subscription, I only read Marcus Pye and the Club racing stuff.



#139 Charlieman

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 13:36

I don't like Moto GP, nothing against it but if I want to read about it I will buy a bike mag.

Mat Oxley writes one page about bikes -- not just MotoGP -- each month. There'll be a couple of photos and paragraphs about bikes elsewhere when reporting modern and historic racing events. I don't think that is excessive coverage. The best thing about Motor Sport magazine is its openness to all forms of racing -- even if commercial necessity requires articles about hypercars and spiv watches. Whoever the new editor may be, I doubt whether s/he'll emulate WB and put a photo of a VSCC trials car on the front cover.

 

Mind you, there'll be words and pictures next month to cover Cal Crutchlow's recent successes. A lot of people smiled.

 

Good luck to the new Motor Sport editor.



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#140 kayemod

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 13:53

Mat Oxley writes one page about bikes -- not just MotoGP -- each month. There'll be a couple of photos and paragraphs about bikes elsewhere when reporting modern and historic racing events. I don't think that is excessive coverage. The best thing about Motor Sport magazine is its openness to all forms of racing -- even if commercial necessity requires articles about hypercars and spiv watches. Whoever the new editor may be, I doubt whether s/he'll emulate WB and put a photo of a VSCC trials car on the front cover.

 

Mind you, there'll be words and pictures next month to cover Cal Crutchlow's recent successes. A lot of people smiled.

 

 

I have zero real interest in motorbikes, never have had, never ridden one, but having said that, I always read Mat Oxley's page. He writes well, largely about characters and racing, I'd be happy to see a bit more. I also enjoyed the piece on Mike Hailwood, and some time ago, Giacomo Agostini. Ex-Editor Damien Smith was a good judge of what was likely to appeal to MS readers, though he did appear to have a blind spot about all the "supercar" crap. I don't want to have another go at the MS writer I like least, but some time ago Andrew Frankel wrote something like "in common with almost every other Motor Sport reader, I always wanted to be a racing driver". That certainly explains much of the tone of his writing and silly performance-blinkered road tests, but I'm sure I'm not untypical in that I've always followed motor racing, have attended many races, and worked in the industry, but driving a car and actually racing? Never, not for one second, surely there must be plenty others who feel like that? Another of my passions is music, but I can't sing and have never played a note, similar kind of thing really.



#141 Charlieman

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 15:14

I don't want to have another go at the MS writer I like least, but some time ago Andrew Frankel wrote something like "in common with almost every other Motor Sport reader, I always wanted to be a racing driver". 

I just wanted to understand how cars work, and how teams and drivers do what they do. 

 

I bought and continue to buy the classic reference books about racing car design. I have given up buying descriptions about post-1990 cars -- I have a degree in mechanical engineering but I don't understand what they are talking about. I don't think that I am intended to understand.

 

Motor Sport magazine has published drawings from Giorgio Piola with Mark Hughes adding commentary. In theory, the mix should have worked but it was incomprehensible. Illustrating air flow and body panels is sort of interesting (if you think that it should matter); writing about air flow is hard work, uninteresting and rarely informative. The finesse work in wind tunnels and finite element modelling systems is unlikely to inspire the next Colin Chapman or Gordon Murray.

 

It is possible to write exciting stuff about racing car design and lots of people do it. Here's the UK land speed record strivers: http://www.bloodhoundssc.com



#142 RA Historian

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 12:16

but I'm sure I'm not untypical in that I've always followed motor racing, have attended many races, and worked in the industry, but driving a car and actually racing? Never, not for one second, surely there must be plenty others who feel like that? Another of my passions is music, but I can't sing and have never played a note, similar kind of thing really.

I strongly second that. While I have had a consuming interest in racing since my grade school days, I have never seriously considered racing myself. A variety of reasons I suppose, but at the most I only toyed with the idea until reality intruded. Just like Rob, I am very much interested in music, classical and jazz, and would like to be able to sing and play, but I am hopelessy impossible when it comes to stringing two notes together.

 

On a semi-related note, I just do not understand the people who constantly complain about such things as bike coverage and watch ads. Don't these people realize that a magazine has to appeal to a base that will support it and keep it in business? Don't they realize that ads are what drive publication? That without such ads the magazine, if published at all, would cost two or three times what it does now? Their unrealistic pig headed view is so blind.



#143 chunder27

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 14:46

Interesting point RA.

 

I take an interest in music and have an ear for music unlike a lot of people but have no interest in playing.

 

Racing wise I would love to race something but have never had the budget or space to do it properly.

 

Then, I had a go at track days and found out rather quickly that inner ear problems mean I would be hopeless at circuits, rallying or anything I would love to do as I would be a vomit bucket after and during the event!

 

Ironic really.

 

Regarding bikes in Motorsport, Oxley is one of the best bikesport writers, he could ride damn well aswell. Pig headedness is common in historic motorsport at some levels, so I treat it with the contempt it deserves.



#144 LordAston

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 16:46

Like most on here I have interests outside the world of racing.  Yes it would have been fun to maybe have gone into racing but having gone to a music school (apart from being tone deaf to playing - go figure) plus I have a serious passion for unusual aspects of history.

 

Yes I do understand that the watch adverts pay for the magazine but they could be done in a far better way than just plonking a 12-16 pages article bang in the centre of the magazine.

 

But I will give MS a read every so often just not every month like I used to. 

 

Although my mantra still stands that I do prefer Automobilsport.  Even if it may not be to all tastes.  This Issue comin #10 is all about the Ferrari mid-Engine Sport Prototypes.  There will be an article on Walter Brun too (which should be interesting). 



#145 Nick Planas

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 21:45

I've been a subscriber for many years, and yes, there are bits I never read (e.g. the Road Tests), but I can understand why others will read these avidly. I'm also not someone who enthuses over motor bikes but I do like reading Matt Oxley's column. But, the bits I DO read (always but not only including NSR, Mark Hughes, Lunch With, DCN) are of such high quality, and so much better value than anything else in any other printed magazine that I feel it's still worth the price. And yes, I skip the pages of ads too, but I know people that find these useful.

 

When I think back to the days when Autosport used to inform, I can honestly say that I used to skip quite a lot of that too - I had little interest in club racing, etc but that didn't mean I didn't appreciate the magazine covering it. 

 

MS is the only printed magazine I still subscribe to, none of the others hold my interest.



#146 cooper997

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 07:16

On Friday Motor Sport announced their new editor.

http://www.motorspor...ints-new-editor

 

Stephen



#147 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 16:05

Does anyone here know the reasons for the change of editors?

#148 Charlieman

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 16:27

Does anyone here know the reasons for the change of editors?

Yes. Damien Smith didn't want to run MS magazine any longer and deserved a holiday.

 

When Damien Smith took over, MS magazine was in the pits. People like us didn't buy it. Damien Smith made MS a magazine to buy, by finding contributors and keeping the old ones on board.

 

Best wishes to the new editor.



#149 Vitesse2

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 16:28

Does anyone here know the reasons for the change of editors?

Damien has joined a PR firm called Influence Associates, who have worked with - among others - Haymarket, Autoweek, Top Gear and Goodwood. I guess he was probably headhunted for his previous experience at Autosport and with the recent sale of that and various other bits of Haymarket - including the exhibitions side, for which they already act - I can see there could be a lot of opportunities for them to grow ...

 

There's probably a lot more money in PR than magazine editing too!



#150 Charlieman

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 16:53

Vitesse2 -- thanks for the introduction to Influence Associates.

 

"Influence Associates was built to be the best Automotive PR, Motorsport PR and Classic Car PR agency in the world. We have the most senior leadership team in the industry and our goal is to apply this talent for the benefit of our clients worldwide.

 

Our founder Stuart Dyble has over 25 years experience leading global communications for Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo and Ford of Europe and for XIX Entertainment in LA.
 
We have former national magazine editors, managing directors of global websites and PR department directors. We don’t have account executives."
 
Stuart Dyble -- you start with a name and end up with problems.