Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 8 votes

McLaren Honda MP4-31 Part V


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
4086 replies to this topic

#51 pacificquay

pacificquay
  • Member

  • 2,923 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 05 August 2016 - 12:20

 

And second: 

Boulier talks trash. Has spread that during lotus days and keep same habits during his days with mclaren. He is incompetent as its proved during his time with lotus where his decissions robbed raikonen of many more victories and i can see same patterns now.

 

 

 

People within the sport rate him highly and praise the job he has done.

 

A guy on the internet says he "talks trash" and "is incompetent".

 

Tough task to decide what to think ;)



Advertisement

#52 winas

winas
  • Member

  • 243 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 05 August 2016 - 13:36

:lol:



#53 chhatra

chhatra
  • Member

  • 2,061 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 05 August 2016 - 13:36

Does EB make strategy decisions?

Hard to blame him for lost victories at Lotus if it wasn't his main job.

Edited by chhatra, 05 August 2016 - 13:36.


#54 Joseki

Joseki
  • Member

  • 3,251 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 05 August 2016 - 13:38

I actually think the Lotus team functioned really well under his leadership.

#55 Pumpkinz

Pumpkinz
  • Member

  • 340 posts
  • Joined: February 16

Posted 05 August 2016 - 14:02

True, if you factor in on what Budget he ran the Lotus Team he did a great Job there. And for the Record, i think he is doing a really good Job at Macca too.


Edited by Pumpkinz, 05 August 2016 - 14:02.


#56 Alonsofan007

Alonsofan007
  • Member

  • 2,214 posts
  • Joined: April 15

Posted 05 August 2016 - 14:10

he was hired by McLaren basically coz of amazing job he did there at lotus.



#57 Mc_Silver

Mc_Silver
  • Member

  • 4,247 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 05 August 2016 - 15:07

IIRC Jost Capito is gonna start his job in McLaren after summer break right?

Edited by Mc_Silver, 05 August 2016 - 15:08.


#58 Treads

Treads
  • Member

  • 2,804 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 05 August 2016 - 16:44

You could be wrong and i could be right.
First of all:
"Eric's appointment is an integral part of a senior management restructure within McLaren Racing," said Dennis.

http://www.skysports...racing-director
http://www.ft.com/cm...l#axzz4GSLygEnw

And second:
Boulier talks trash. Has spread that during lotus days and keep same habits during his days with mclaren. He is incompetent as its proved during his time with lotus where his decissions robbed raikonen of many more victories and i can see same patterns now.

I can see his problem - (its in his interview) he is missing details, but on contrary to what he is spreading - details are important in F1.
Anyway even if You are right and he has built Mclaren - its time for him to go. I hope Jost will step on him! :)

One of the most ill informed posts I have read this year.

Edited by Treads, 05 August 2016 - 18:06.


#59 DerekWildstar

DerekWildstar
  • Member

  • 145 posts
  • Joined: May 16

Posted 05 August 2016 - 20:04

You could be wrong and i could be right.
First of all:
"Eric's appointment is an integral part of a senior management restructure within McLaren Racing," said Dennis.

http://www.skysports...racing-director
http://www.ft.com/cm...l#axzz4GSLygEnw

And second:
Boulier talks trash. Has spread that during lotus days and keep same habits during his days with mclaren. He is incompetent as its proved during his time with lotus where his decissions robbed raikonen of many more victories and i can see same patterns now.

I can see his problem - (its in his interview) he is missing details, but on contrary to what he is spreading - details are important in F1.
Anyway even if You are right and he has built Mclaren - its time for him to go. I hope Jost will step on him! :)

This personnel analysis is the equivalent of the aerodynamic input we got from "beam wing" dude.

Edited by DerekWildstar, 05 August 2016 - 20:06.


Advertisement

#60 mclarensmps

mclarensmps
  • Member

  • 5,956 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 05 August 2016 - 20:38

I actually think the Lotus team functioned really well under his leadership.

 

He was asked to steer a ship with 5 massive holes in it's hull and he did a tremendous job at it.  :up:



#61 Alonsofan007

Alonsofan007
  • Member

  • 2,214 posts
  • Joined: April 15

Posted 05 August 2016 - 22:21

nice shot this!!

43gjj715lkdx.png



#62 KnucklesAgain

KnucklesAgain
  • Member

  • 10,411 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 06 August 2016 - 00:29

People within the sport rate him highly and praise the job he has done.

 

A guy on the internet says he "talks trash" and "is incompetent".

 

Tough task to decide what to think ;)

 

Well, another one who robbed Kimi, what else do you need to decide? ;)


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 06 August 2016 - 00:31.


#63 DerekWildstar

DerekWildstar
  • Member

  • 145 posts
  • Joined: May 16

Posted 06 August 2016 - 13:45

He was asked to steer a ship with 5 massive holes in it's hull and he did a tremendous job at it.  :up:


And they patched several of the massive holes while underway at sea.

#64 TakataDomeNSX

TakataDomeNSX
  • Member

  • 1,867 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 08 August 2016 - 09:01

la la la la la....it's dead in here :drunk:



#65 alpes

alpes
  • Member

  • 303 posts
  • Joined: February 16

Posted 08 August 2016 - 09:09

It seems everyone is complying fully with summer break
I would not exclude FIA paying a visit to some of the posters to check

#66 Gary Davies

Gary Davies
  • Member

  • 4,301 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 08 August 2016 - 09:55

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly IS allowed to be going on during the summer break? I truly don't recall the details surrounding the enforced break. I find it reasonably difficult to think that Messrs Newey/Fellows/Oatley/Goss/Prodromou/Binotti/Lowe/Andreasen/Wood/Smedley/Chester etc are not head down/tail up in front of their computers either at home or in their luxury holiday homes with a lovely view of the Med. Or that Jost Capito is not fully immersed with Ronzo and others having the full McLaren DNA transfer, or Signor Marchionne is not laying down the law, day after day, with his quivering 'Scuderia tenentes'. Or indeed that there are some feverish and inscrutable goings-on at Tochigi right now. 

 

I'm sure there are some more diligent followers of F1 than I who effortlessly carry this information around in their head.

 
 


#67 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

RainyAfterlifeDaylight
  • Member

  • 4,008 posts
  • Joined: February 15

Posted 08 August 2016 - 10:44

Formula1 is about pushing the boundaries. Summer break is a good way to push the boundaries. I am almost sure that teams are as busy as BEE. I would be very surprised if a team didn't have activity during the summer break.



#68 Alonsofan007

Alonsofan007
  • Member

  • 2,214 posts
  • Joined: April 15

Posted 08 August 2016 - 12:40

IIRC each team should inform FIA of dates when factory will be closed, all teams have to close it for 2 weeks during shutdown. Of course people who do not need to work in factory like designers can get their job done at home as well.



#69 Joseki

Joseki
  • Member

  • 3,251 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 08 August 2016 - 12:57

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly IS allowed to be going on during the summer break? I truly don't recall the details surrounding the enforced break. I find it reasonably difficult to think that Messrs Newey/Fellows/Oatley/Goss/Prodromou/Binotti/Lowe/Andreasen/Wood/Smedley/Chester etc are not head down/tail up in front of their computers either at home or in their luxury holiday homes with a lovely view of the Med. Or that Jost Capito is not fully immersed with Ronzo and others having the full McLaren DNA transfer, or Signor Marchionne is not laying down the law, day after day, with his quivering 'Scuderia tenentes'. Or indeed that there are some feverish and inscrutable goings-on at Tochigi right now. 

 

I'm sure there are some more diligent followers of F1 than I who effortlessly carry this information around in their head.

 

I can imagine Newey drinking a Mojito on the beach and designing a new front wing on a hanky



#70 oetzi

oetzi
  • Member

  • 6,829 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 08 August 2016 - 14:37

F1's gone to the dogs. Back in the day it would have been a fag packet.

#71 DrFurby

DrFurby
  • Member

  • 278 posts
  • Joined: December 15

Posted 08 August 2016 - 17:41

IIRC each team should inform FIA of dates when factory will be closed, all teams have to close it for 2 weeks during shutdown. Of course people who do not need to work in factory like designers can get their job done at home as well.

 

Or get to the workstation via remote connection, is FIA going to check inside the factories? Actually, if the liberalism mantra has proven anything sometimes is that if you make absurd regulations, instead of equalization you actually get the opposite: substantial benefits for the ones who hack (=circumvent) the rules.  Just let anyone open wherever the **** they want.  :down:


Edited by DrFurby, 08 August 2016 - 17:42.


#72 f1paul

f1paul
  • Member

  • 7,403 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 08 August 2016 - 17:43

I can imagine Newey drinking a Mojito on the beach and designing a new front wing on a hanky

If there on a beach, they could use sand



#73 CPR

CPR
  • Member

  • 5,112 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 08 August 2016 - 18:16

Designers and engineers do need to take a break like everyone else. Though in theory there are ways around the 2 week shutdown in practice I'd be surprised if there's much effort made to try simply because it's important for people to get some R&R from time to time.



#74 Joseki

Joseki
  • Member

  • 3,251 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 08 August 2016 - 19:43

If there on a beach, they could use sand

 

Maybe he doesn't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.



#75 ERICTOPF1

ERICTOPF1
  • Member

  • 718 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 08 August 2016 - 20:23

As they say devil hides in the details:

 

http://en.f1i.com/ma...tech-sun.html/7 :eek:



#76 KnucklesAgain

KnucklesAgain
  • Member

  • 10,411 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 08 August 2016 - 20:46

IIRC each team should inform FIA of dates when factory will be closed, all teams have to close it for 2 weeks during shutdown. Of course people who do not need to work in factory like designers can get their job done at home as well.

 

 

Or get to the workstation via remote connection, is FIA going to check inside the factories? Actually, if the liberalism mantra has proven anything sometimes is that if you make absurd regulations, instead of equalization you actually get the opposite: substantial benefits for the ones who hack (=circumvent) the rules.  Just let anyone open wherever the **** they want.  :down:

 

 

But the break isn't so much about high-paid staff, but indeed the factory and the "normal" people in it. It's not so hard to make sure they get some vacation


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 08 August 2016 - 20:46.


#77 Gary Davies

Gary Davies
  • Member

  • 4,301 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 09 August 2016 - 00:40

I can imagine Newey drinking a Mojito on the beach and designing a new front wing on a hanky

Wouldn't there be too much flex in a hanky, especially when there's a blown nose?



#78 tkulla

tkulla
  • Member

  • 3,824 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 09 August 2016 - 02:28

Maybe he doesn't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.


Ah, quoting Anakin's romantic speak. The force is strong with this one.

#79 Nobody

Nobody
  • Member

  • 2,028 posts
  • Joined: January 07

Posted 09 August 2016 - 03:46

Capito is having a crack at the rules/FIA, don't think it's a jibe at Meeke personally.

 

If anything, F1 wise, it's a Horner/Briatore type comment at management.



Advertisement

#80 TakataDomeNSX

TakataDomeNSX
  • Member

  • 1,867 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 09 August 2016 - 05:55

so if the engine is more efficient it should run cooler?

 

 

Honda Racing F1 @HondaRacingF1 13h13 hours ago

Comprised of over 3,500 components the Honda F1 power unit reaches up to 900°C at full power. #F1 #HondaF1Fact

CpWcYL8WAAAzx_c.jpg


#81 Sebastien007

Sebastien007
  • Member

  • 435 posts
  • Joined: April 14

Posted 09 August 2016 - 07:49

Honda Racing F1 ‏@HondaRacingF1 13h13 hours ago

Comprised of over 3,500 components the Honda F1 power unit reaches up to 900°C at full power. #F1 #HondaF1Fact

 

 

I really hope they prepare for SPA a big engine evolution,

 

"Come on HONDA, we need you."



#82 CPR

CPR
  • Member

  • 5,112 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 09 August 2016 - 09:26

so if the engine is more efficient it should run cooler?
 
 
Honda Racing F1 ‏@HondaRacingF1 13h13 hours ago

Comprised of over 3,500 components the Honda F1 power unit reaches up to 900°C at full power. #F1 #HondaF1Fact


It's a bit more complicated than that. I'm sure some others could give a better (or more accurate) explanation than me but generally you want the gap between the temperature before the fuel is burnt and after to be as large as possible. So cooler air temperatures helps efficiency - though increased air density and lower cooling requirements help as well. This is why there is an inter-cooler between the compressor and the inlets - compressing the air increases the temperature so cooling it back down helps improve efficiency. On the combustion side, the better the fuel burns the more heat is produced, which generally means higher temperatures in the exhaust (and more noise).

 

Generally it is considered an advantage if your engine can run at higher temperatures. I remember comments from Honda and McLaren talking about how they can handle higher temperatures (ie it gives them an advantage).


Edited by CPR, 09 August 2016 - 09:28.


#83 TakataDomeNSX

TakataDomeNSX
  • Member

  • 1,867 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 09 August 2016 - 09:32

It's a bit more complicated than that. I'm sure some others could give a better (or more accurate) explanation than me but generally you want the gap between the temperature before the fuel is burnt and after to be as large as possible. So cooler air temperatures helps efficiency - though increased air density and lower cooling requirements help as well. This is why there is an inter-cooler between the compressor and the inlets - compressing the air increases the temperature so cooling it back down helps improve efficiency. On the combustion side, the better the fuel burns the more heat is produced, which generally means higher temperatures in the exhaust (and more noise).

 

Generally it is considered an advantage if your engine can run at higher temperatures. I remember comments from Honda and McLaren talking about how they can handle higher temperatures (ie it gives them an advantage).

 

Thanks, I'd have thought if you have 100% efficiency all the energy in the fuel is not wasted as heat or noise, simply it is all comverted into motive power. Shows you how much I know hahaha



#84 CPR

CPR
  • Member

  • 5,112 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 09 August 2016 - 10:14

Thanks, I'd have thought if you have 100% efficiency all the energy in the fuel is not wasted as heat or noise, simply it is all comverted into motive power. Shows you how much I know hahaha

 

Well, you're talking about something rather different there.

 

There are certainly many things where "heat" is a sign of inefficiency, eg an electric motor. However, for an ICE, you're burning fuel, which causes the temperature to rise, which causes air to expand (which produces sound), which is then turned into mechanical work. This inherently produces "waste" heat. This is why the theoretical maximum efficiency of an ICE is well below 100%.



#85 CPR

CPR
  • Member

  • 5,112 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 09 August 2016 - 10:26

I don't remember seeing these quotes from Hasegawa before:
http://en.f1i.com/ne...ging-honda.html
 

It was very encouraging, especially seeing our race pace was much better than expected after our qualifying pace," Hasegawa said. "It was a tough race for both Jenson and Fernando, to compete at a power circuit like Hockenheim.

"They did a good job in battling the Williams and Force Indias throughout the race, and though they were forced to do a lot of fuel saving, Jenson managed his pace well until the end, and caught up with a tyre-struggling Williams in the end.

"The team strategy worked well, and Jenson drove patiently and smoothly to keep to the strategy. Obviously, we need to work further on improving the power and fuel but the race pace was decent and the result was hugely encouraging for the team."



#86 Giz

Giz
  • Member

  • 606 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 09 August 2016 - 10:34

Honda Racing F1 ‏@HondaRacingF1 13h13 hours ago

Comprised of over 3,500 components the Honda F1 power unit reaches up to 900°C at full power. #F1 #HondaF1Fact

 

 

I really hope they prepare for SPA a big engine evolution,

 

"Come on HONDA, we need you."

 

Wish that was HP not degrees C

 

Giz



#87 Joseki

Joseki
  • Member

  • 3,251 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 09 August 2016 - 10:46

I was watching some photos of last year car and some results: in Melbourne K-Mag's PU failed after 50 laps or so, JB lapped about 5 seconds per lap slower than the Mercs and was lapped twice. Also the car looked so "basic" compared to the MP4-31.

 

f1-jerez-february-testing-2015-fernando-

 

f1-german-gp-2016-fernando-alonso-mclare



#88 f1paul

f1paul
  • Member

  • 7,403 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 09 August 2016 - 11:56

Maybe he doesn't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.

1ca95d4aac3e4aac747145e540f19047.jpg



#89 mclarensmps

mclarensmps
  • Member

  • 5,956 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 09 August 2016 - 12:10

F1-technical-gallery-mclaren.jpg

That's ridiculous



#90 Joseki

Joseki
  • Member

  • 3,251 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 09 August 2016 - 12:21

That's not even the latest spec.



#91 Mc_Silver

Mc_Silver
  • Member

  • 4,247 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 09 August 2016 - 12:27

This FW is the definition of "work of art".   :love:  :love:



#92 kasio

kasio
  • Member

  • 37 posts
  • Joined: March 16

Posted 09 August 2016 - 12:51

I could answer to all of posts addressed to my opinion about boulier but why? I get some of those comments incompetent and some of them didnt even hava an opinion... are You just spamming here?  

In the meantime I will just wait for Joost.



#93 Mc_Silver

Mc_Silver
  • Member

  • 4,247 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 09 August 2016 - 13:25

Nıce Q&A with Fernando Alonso!

 

http://www.formula1....-interview.html



#94 Alonsofan007

Alonsofan007
  • Member

  • 2,214 posts
  • Joined: April 15

Posted 09 August 2016 - 14:05

It's a bit more complicated than that. I'm sure some others could give a better (or more accurate) explanation than me but generally you want the gap between the temperature before the fuel is burnt and after to be as large as possible. So cooler air temperatures helps efficiency - though increased air density and lower cooling requirements help as well. This is why there is an inter-cooler between the compressor and the inlets - compressing the air increases the temperature so cooling it back down helps improve efficiency. On the combustion side, the better the fuel burns the more heat is produced, which generally means higher temperatures in the exhaust (and more noise).

 

Generally it is considered an advantage if your engine can run at higher temperatures. I remember comments from Honda and McLaren talking about how they can handle higher temperatures (ie it gives them an advantage).

to add, main advantage of merc's layout of C being away from T/exhaust unlike others is it needs much less or no cooling b/w C and inlets eliminating lag if any. Unlike others where compressed air is hot and needs to be cooled.



#95 mclarensmps

mclarensmps
  • Member

  • 5,956 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 09 August 2016 - 14:15

I could answer to all of posts addressed to my opinion about boulier but why? I get some of those comments incompetent and some of them didnt even hava an opinion... are You just spamming here?  

In the meantime I will just wait for Joost.

 

 

:confused:



#96 F1Lurker

F1Lurker
  • Member

  • 1,425 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 09 August 2016 - 14:19

Well, you're talking about something rather different there.

 

There are certainly many things where "heat" is a sign of inefficiency, eg an electric motor. However, for an ICE, you're burning fuel, which causes the temperature to rise, which causes air to expand (which produces sound), which is then turned into mechanical work. This inherently produces "waste" heat. This is why the theoretical maximum efficiency of an ICE is well below 100%.

Actually, the current F1 "engine" is defined as a power unit of which the ICE is only one part. TakataDomeNSX is correct in the context of the F1 PU. 100% efficiency would result in 100% of the fuel's energy being converted to the drive shaft. Mercedes is approaching 50% fuel efficiency by converting "waste" heat from combustion and braking into energy and then transferring that energy to the drive shaft.

 

But I do agree with your point in respect to the high temperatures and the ICE.


Edited by F1Lurker, 09 August 2016 - 16:03.


#97 KnucklesAgain

KnucklesAgain
  • Member

  • 10,411 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 09 August 2016 - 16:19

I could answer to all of posts addressed to my opinion about boulier but why? I get some of those comments incompetent and some of them didnt even hava an opinion... are You just spamming here?
In the meantime I will just wait for Joost.


Pro Tip: Try to substantiate your posted opinions about Boullier if you want them to prompt meaningful answers.

#98 CPR

CPR
  • Member

  • 5,112 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 09 August 2016 - 19:04

to add, main advantage of merc's layout of C being away from T/exhaust unlike others is it needs much less or no cooling b/w C and inlets eliminating lag if any. Unlike others where compressed air is hot and needs to be cooled.

 
I generally agree with what you're saying but would suggest you say "reduce lag" rather than "eliminate lag". It won't eliminate the need for an intercooler though - while having hot components around would make a difference the main reason the air gets hot going through the compressor is because it's compressed (google "ideal gas laws" or "air pressure and temperature" if you're interested) - the air temperature would probably increase by somewhere around 200C in these F1 engines, depending on the pressure increase and compressor efficiency.

 

Honda's compressor is in almost the same location as Mercedes's, just a more embedded (not sure if it's still entirely in the V or not this year). I've no idea how much of a difference that makes for overall cooling etc.



#99 BJHF1

BJHF1
  • Member

  • 1,750 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 09 August 2016 - 19:30

to add, main advantage of merc's layout of C being away from T/exhaust unlike others is it needs much less or no cooling b/w C and inlets eliminating lag if any. Unlike others where compressed air is hot and needs to be cooled.


It's a bit of a give and take to some degree though. The lengthy shaft connecting the compressor and turbine will increase the weight of the rotating assembly, increasing lag and transient response in the process.

I believe Merc spent a ton of time to get the concept right though, as it must be extremely critcal to have a connecting shaft that is as strong and stiff as possible (to prevent vibration & deflection), while remaining lightweight at the same time.

Advertisement

#100 Mclaretino

Mclaretino
  • New Member

  • 9 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 09 August 2016 - 20:49

Does anyone know if Honda being allowed to work through the summer break because they are a partner of the team is correct?