21 replies to this topic

[Pullman99]

Here's a little mystery!

 

Just idly viewing some You Tube footage from Pathe (unedited out-takes from British Grand practice in 1969) - I was actually looking for some Lotus 59B F2 shots - and noticed that one of the Brabham BT26A cars (presumably Jack Brabham's No.8) being apparently driven by Graham Hill.  It could be that Jack had simply borrowed Graham's helmet of course.   Various shots of the car from 3:12 in from the start.  Any ideas (just out of curiosity)?

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=t0zsT9q-hpU

[Vitesse2]

IIRC the Lotus transporter was late and while waiting for it to arrive Graham just popped round to the Brabham pit and asked to borrow a car!

[Pullman99]

IIRC the Lotus transporter was late and while waiting for it to arrive Graham just popped round to the Brabham pit and asked to borrow a car!

Thanks Vitesse.   Thought it must be something like that.    Try telling that to young people t'day...

[Vitesse2]

Probably a bit of Lotus politics involved too. This was the race where Graham finally refused to drive the 63 and they ended up reclaiming Bonnier's 49 for him to race, leaving Jo to run the unloved 4WD. DSJ's preamble to his report hints at disagreements with the drivers and 'the sort of unharmonious atmosphere in the whole set-up that one normally associates with the BRM team.'

 

He also points out that 'Rindt had no car to drive' in the Thursday morning session - no mention of Hill being a similar predicament! It's not what you write, it's what you don't write ...

 

http://www.motorspor.../august-1969/14

[Allan Lupton]

Ah, but if you look at the practice times box, V2, there's a time for Brabham Comp. No. 8 on Thursday morning with G. Hill driving!

[Tim Murray]

According to the report in Autosport, Team Lotus (which is described as 'a shambles') failed to turn up at all for the Thursday morning practice session. Jacky Ickx had been delayed at Brussels airport and phoned to say he'd be late. So:

Tauranac had no driver and Graham Hill had no car, so - to start with almost as a joke - Ron suggested that Graham should have a go in the new BT26/4. Graham accepted with alacrity, slipped off his shoes and tried the cockpit for size before going out to do a 24.1. He came into the pits and characteristically requested all sorts of tweaks - brake balance, roll bar setting etc - and Ickx arrived in the middle of all of this and looked slightly nonplussed.

[2F-001]

Interesting - I don’t remember hearing of this this Brabham outing for Hill before, or if it was mentioned in the commentary at the circuit the later on.

 

As for Lotus being a ‘shambles’, I was there on the Friday and notwithstanding a) the prep standards of the day, and b) that being my first time in the paddock of a GP meeting, they did not look, to me, like a team that were ready to go racing. Others seemed much more sorted, though the 'issues' with the 63 can't have helped. We didn’t know until later that they’d been late arrivals. I must try to find the paddock shots we took that day.

 

As for the Brabham/Hill thing being an “it couldn’t happen nowadays” moment - similarly the following season at the International Trophy, Stewart drove the Williams de Tomaso whilst Courage (and Amon and Brabham, if I remember correctly) were busy at Monza. Whilst this was ostensibly JYS doing Frank a favour, he was perhaps interested to try ’something else’ if they’d already suspected the lack of development potential of the 701?

[Porsche718]

I find it interesting that there had been a Brabham/Hill connection in prior years with Graham driving Brabhams in the '64 and '65 Tasman Series. I know it was for David McKay's Scuderia Veloce team but McKay always had the best from Brabham so one would think that Graham's drive would be with Jack's blessing or perhaps even Jack organising the drive.

 

Also, after Hill's recovery from his October '69 accident in the US, Brabham gave Hill a drive from 1971.

 

I love the story about Hill, after finding out the extent of the injuries to both his legs, "apparently" said to the doctors - "would you mind straightening my legs while you're at it, I've always been a bit bow legged"!

[Roger Clark]

 

Motoring News

[charles r]

Is that Ron Dennis on the right?

[f1steveuk]

Yep!

[Allen Brown]

Thanks Vitesse.   Thought it must be something like that.    Try telling that to young people t'day...

 

Try telling anyone!  When I wrote a dossier on this car, and included Hill driving it in practice, my customer refused to believe it.  Infered I was an idiot and didn't know what I was talking about

Edited by Allen Brown, 14 August 2016 - 17:18.

[Stephen W]

Graham Hill drove a lot of different Brabhams over the years prior to driving for the team full time in F1. They were mainly F2 cars mainly, if memory serves, for John Coombs.

[Lotus53B]

My dad and I grabbed this image:-

 

 

In 1971, at the BRDC cup meet at Silverstone - afaik, the last F1 race that Graham Hill won.  At Spa, in 1998, I saw the last F1 race Damon Hill won...

[Pullman99]

Nice pic!

 

That was a very nostalgic day, the International Trophy in 1971.     Graham in the unique BT34 "Lobsterclaw".   The race (in two parts) was also memorable for Jackie Stewart ploughing straight on at Copse (in part 2, I think) when the Tyrrell's throttle stuck open.    The BBC were covering this race live and that clip remained part of the opening credits on Grandstand for years.   Graham's comments on this incident when being interviewed after his win were along the lines of: "Glad to see you're OK and that the car is well and truly stuffed!"

 

Interesting to see Ron Dennis in the Motoring News item.   Graham was also driving the Formula Two BT36 for Rondel Racing in 1971.

[Pullman99]

Try telling anyone!  When I wrote a dossier on this car, and included Hill driving it in practice, my customer refused to believe it.  Infered I was an idiot and didn't know what I was talking about

Thanks Allen.   It's amazing what you find / remember/ discover you've thrown away in error (delete as necessary) when you're actually trying to find something completely different (to continue the MP theme).   As "Graham's car" is described as "the new BT26", I assume it's BT26/4. 

 

Glad this discovery has proved so interesting...

[Lotus53B]

Nice pic!

 

That was a very nostalgic day, the International Trophy in 1971.     Graham in the unique BT34 "Lobsterclaw".   The race (in two parts) was also memorable for Jackie Stewart ploughing straight on at Copse (in part 2, I think) when the Tyrrell's throttle stuck open.

Aye, it was fairly early in part  - Jackie came straight at us, in the days when safety at Copse was about 25 feet of grass with a couple of straw bales - I don't think my Dad got a snap of that, alas...

[2F-001]

Aye, it was fairly early in part  - 

Lap 1 (of Part 2) wasn't it?

 

Part 2 also notable for Emersons's drive from the back in the 56B (after a front row spot and early retirement from Part 1). I wonder what his result might have been had the car performed as well in Part 1?

 

The meeting also saw so a typically thrilling F3 'mass-streamliner', won by Bev Bond; possibly the first (major) win for Ensign?

 

(Apols for OT digression.)

[Pullman99]

 

The meeting also saw so a typically thrilling F3 'mass-streamliner', won by Bev Bond; possibly the first (major) win for Ensign?

 

(Apols for OT digression.)

OT is the very stuff of The Nostalgia Forum!

[Ray Bell]

With regard to the comments about Graham Hill's Scuderia Veloce drives...

Originally posted by Porsche718
I find it interesting that there had been a Brabham/Hill connection in prior years with Graham driving Brabhams in the '64 and '65 Tasman Series. I know it was for David McKay's Scuderia Veloce team but McKay always had the best from Brabham so one would think that Graham's drive would be with Jack's blessing or perhaps even Jack organising the drive.
 
Also, after Hill's recovery from his October '69 accident in the US, Brabham gave Hill a drive from 1971.

First, welcome to the forum, I look forward to seeing your post in the Introductions thread up among the 'stickies'...

Grahamn's 1964 drives were in a BT4, he only ran in two races in this car which was already 15 months old and a model behind the BT7A Brabhams of Brabham and Matich. Nevertheless, he won at Longford after Brabham retired and McLaren started from the rear of the grid, while he was fourth at the Farm.

1965 was a more serious endeavour, a new BT11A wrapped around him and running in the NZ GP (where he had another win) as well as the three Australian rounds. At all but this one NZ race Jack was also competing.

I would suggest that Bib Stillwell generally got as good or better from Jack than David did. David, however, would ultimately get better engine equipment from Repco. But Hill's placement in David's cars would have been more to do with Shell connections than anything else.



.

Edited by Ray Bell, 15 August 2016 - 15:06.

[Lotus53B]

Aye, it should have been Part 2...dang.

 

 

The winners trundled round the circuit (look at how low profile the tyres are compared to today..).  I think that there's a very young Damon behind the girl in yellow in front of Graham.  It was at that race I got my love of the 56B, and was a fan of Emerson for years.  Alas for fixed length lenses...

 

EDIT:  Also, apologies for more digression

Edited by Lotus53B, 15 August 2016 - 16:29.

[Nick Planas]

Aye, it should have been Part 2...dang.

 

 

The winners trundled round the circuit (look at how low profile the tyres are compared to today..).  I think that there's a very young Damon behind the girl in yellow in front of Graham.  It was at that race I got my love of the 56B, and was a fan of Emerson for years.  Alas for fixed length lenses...

 

EDIT:  Also, apologies for more digression

I think you'll find that's the complete Hill family in front of Graham. Bette sitting on wheel with Samantha on her lap, and Brigitte & Damon standing by the rear wing. I sort of miss the days when drivers weren't breaking some odd protocol by having their family visible at times of celebration. Imagine if anyone tried that now, the stewards fine would probably be more than the 1971 Brabham F1 budget...