4 replies to this topic

[stewartjp]

Hi Everyone, 

 

I am trying to track down some more information on a car which ran in the 1926 Detroit 100 race at the fairgrounds.  I beleive it was built by Carl "Pop" Green and Driven by Sam Rose. 

 

It may have also run at Indy in 1926 or at least attempted to qualify, but thus far I am not sure on that. 

 

All the info I have so far is here - 

 

Any help would be great. 

Cheers 

 

Stewart 

[Michael Ferner]

Sam Ross finished 6th (and last running) at the Michigan State Fair 100 mile race on September 11, 1926, good for $800 which was an excellent payday in those times. The Detroit Free Press reported on Sep 6:

(...) the American Automobile Association announced tonight that the Green Engineering company, of Dayton, O., had entered its 90 cubic inch job for Sam Ross, of Ann Arbor, as pilot. This car attempted to qualify in the last Indianapolis race, but developed trouble with the supercharger, blowing out a head, but when the "blower" was taken off the speed was cut below qualifying limits. A new supercharger has been made and it has developed 110 miles an hour at Indianapolis.

On October 31, another 100 mile race was held at the State Fairgrounds track, and was won by Ross along with $2,400 after three earlier leaders had dropped out because of mechanical woes, including his own brother, Elvin Ross, on lap 88. A few days before the event, the Detroit Free Press published an entry list, unfortunately without car names, only numbers and driver names. Sam Ross was listed as #66, which I feel sure was his own 2.9 Fronty-Ford, rather than the Green Engineering job, which was assigned #35 at Indy, and may have raced as #100 in the East that summer, though that is far from sure. In fact, the #100 Green Engineering Special driven by Niles Gary was probably an older car, although evidently supercharged, too.

Give me a little time, and I will try to summarize Carl "Pop" Green's early activities 1921 - '30.

[Michael Ferner]

I don't know when exactly Carl "Pop" Green started doing business as the Green Engineering Co. in Dayton/OH, but by 1915 he was advertizing "Aluminum Alloy ("Aluminite") Pistons [that] will make a four run like a six" in an Indianapolis newspaper, adding that they "have won all prominent racing events". Over the next few years, similar ads appeared in Ohio and Western Pennsylvania papers, and by 1921 a pair of Green-built racers ran on the IMCA circuit, the #29 CSG Special and the #30 Green-Dayton Special. By 1925, Green Engineering had become a common name in certain areas, and one Michigan paper even announced a five-car team entry for a local event, however nothing specific is known at the time. The same year, Green Engineering also filed a two-car entry for the Indy 500, one Super Ford Special being of the "flivver type" but, significantly, supercharged - perhaps the first supercharged Model T racing car ever? The other one, to be driven and sponsored by Western New Yorker Steven Smith, was possibly even more interesting: a DOHC straight 8, a challenger for the state-of-the-art Millers and Duesenbergs. Unfortunately, both cars were ready far too late, and didn't get up to qualifying speeds.

Unusually, for America, the Green supercharger was of the Roots "blower" type, and sat in front of the radiator on the front axle, complete with the carburettor - not ideal for dirt track racing, one imagines. Green advertized it for sale, but it's unclear whether it was a success - as mentioned, Niles Gary of Maryland drove one in 1926, but that may well have been the 1925 Indy prototype. From 1927 to '30, Norval Delelys from upstate New York was another user, and yet again it may have been the same car. Meanwhile, Green showed up at Indy in '26 with a 91 CID version, still Ford-based, which is quite a conversion starting with almost twice the capacity - to my knowledge, only Frontenac and Green even tried this, and both appear to have built just one such engine. As we have seen, the Green mini flivver was hardly a success, and this car was eventually advertized for sale in a Detroit newspaper on July 6, 1927, from a Ferndale address (a Detroit suburb). That year, the straight 8 reappeared, now also modified for the new formula, and also DNQed. Green also engaged in motor boat races, and a marine V8 was adopted for the second entry, finally making the field the following year at a slow 96 mph and with that history, as the first of many V8s to run the famous event. It failed again in '29, as did the straight 8, and after that Green turned to the highly profitable business of converting Model A and B Fords into racing engines in New Jersey, with which he enjoyed some fine success in the thirties. He also partook in early Midget racing, but after a few wins in 1935 he was swept away by the "Mighty Midget", made by Offenhauser.

Edited by Michael Ferner, 17 August 2016 - 21:28.

[stewartjp]

Wow thanks Michael! 

[stewartjp]

There are some photos here of what I think are this car or at least one with Green bits on it. http://theoldmotor.com/?p=99626