59 replies to this topic

[FullThrottleF1]

He didn't go into detail, it was in his notebook after the race: https://joesaward.wo...he-hotel-lobby/

 

Quite interesting, I wonder who the potential new owners are.

[Marklar]

"Joe Saward....didn't go into detail"

Perfect

[Jackmancer]

There were some Manor sale stories when Manor's Twitter account went down for two hours, completely gone from the web, prompting people to think they'd have a new identity soon. Maybe Joe based his story on that. But it was all utter bollocks, it was just a Twitter server that failed, while Manor was doing its trackwalk.

[Prost1997T]

I see he couldn't contain his contempt for McKenzie and CVC

[f1paul]

Just like previous years...............Virgin, Marrusia, Manor..................what's next?

[rjsports]

Welcome to the back of the F1 grid, it's tough out there.

Edited by rjsports, 05 September 2016 - 10:55.

[ensign14]

'Twas ever thus.

 

Jordan -> Midland -> Spyker -> Force India

 

Tyrrell -> BAR -> Honda -> Brawn -> Mercedes

 

Toleman -> Benetton -> Renault -> Fauxtus -> Renault

 

Williams -> De Tomaso -> Iso-Rivolta -> Williams -> Wolf -> RIP  [Williams today is really a separate entity started in 1977]

[Xentas]

Frankly Joe Saward should of known better, investing in a back of the grid team is always going to be a massive money sink. Now he is trying to offload the team and John Booth has disappeared, it's put Manor is an uncomfortable position once again, from one disaster to the next it seems.

Edited by Xentas, 05 September 2016 - 10:34.

[FullThrottleF1]

Frankly Joe Saward should of known better, investing in a back of the grid team is always going to be a massive money sink. Now he is trying to offload the team and John Booth has disappeared, it's put Manor is an uncomfortable position once again, from one disaster to the next it seems.

[Kristian]

I'm amazed that team (as an entity) is in their 7th season. Their debut as Virgin really does not seem that long ago!

[RedBaron]

Didn't Saward have on good authority Wehrlein would sign for a team (if I remember correctly, Williams?) in 2017 and make his debut in 2017? Something like that... well that didn't happen at all in any shape or form.

[ch103]

Didn't Saward have on good authority Wehrlein would sign for a team (if I remember correctly, Williams?) in 2017 and make his debut in 2017? Something like that... well that didn't happen at all in any shape or form.

 
He has stated on a number of occasions that Wehrlein is slotted to go to Force India.

[Marklar]

Didn't Saward have on good authority Wehrlein would sign for a team (if I remember correctly, Williams?) in 2017 and make his debut in 2017? Something like that... well that didn't happen at all in any shape or form.
 

Actually he said that Wehrlein to Williams in 2017 is pretty much done. But it was not clear yet where he will drive in 2016.

He could be stil right ;)

[FullThrottleF1]

I dislike Joe has much as the next guy but he has good sources generally.

[EthanM]

I dislike Joe has much as the next guy but he has good sources generally.

 

Like that Apple is buying F1 source from a month ago?

[FullThrottleF1]

Like that Apple is buying F1 source from a month ago?

I've been reading his blog for years, most of the time he is right.

[EthanM]

I've been reading his blog for years, most of the time he is right.

 

Most of the stories of his I 've read have been somewhere between false and downright comical... remember that billionaire club (that were actually a pizza parlor) buying Lotus a few years ago? 

[minime]

His campaign for cost capping the teams was hilarious, he was right and the rest of the world was wrong and he had the entire answer to every F1 problem. 

[secessionman]

Most of the stories of his I 've read have been somewhere between false and downright comical... remember that billionaire club (that were actually a pizza parlor) buying Lotus a few years ago? 

 

Yes, he really dug his heels in on that one. When everybody else could see the truth, for some reason Joe wouldn't allow himself to.

 

However, as stated in the previous post, most of the time he is right.

[Vitesse2]

Just a friendly warning folks. Mr Saward does read this BB and we really wouldn't want either a libel or defamation suit.

 

In that spirit, three posts have been removed and another two edited.

[FullThrottleF1]

Famous visitors eh!

[kissTheApex]

Just a friendly warning folks. Mr Saward does read this BB and we really wouldn't want either a libel or defamation suit.
 
In that spirit, three posts have been removed and another two edited.

I really don't get the Saward hate on the forum.

[KWSN - DSM]

I quite like Saward and his ruminations.

 

[stewie]

I read his blog, some of it isn't to my liking but I do like it when he talks about the history of the sport & the old tracks / drivers long forgotten.

[LORDBYRON]

its been on the cards for some time juat about any one can see this, Ive never known any of his storeys to bear fruit there a upcoming team if the right party comes along anf the fact thy have and likey to score more points and finish 10th place makes the sale worth more and easy to sell.

[Kristian]

I enjoy Saward's blog - there's not much out there that gives you an insight into the life of an F1 hack on the road. I mean I travel a lot with my job, but I wonder how he gets the energy for what he does... 

 

He also shares his insider information and isn't worried about it being wrong - sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. But I like knowing the rumours that are going around. Again, no other journalist does that (for free anyway).

 

So on the basis of these two comments, he's perfectly within his rights to get cranky with the odd troll and rude VIP on the grid.

 

I'm intrigued that he did not go into the 'Manor sale' part though - so I assume there isn't much to go on yet, but it seems awfully quick for someone who only bought the team last year.  

[RedBaron]

I really don't get the Saward hate on the forum.

 

He's a rude and pompus man.

 

My only one on one experience of him was many years ago, must have been around 2004-2005 when he wrote for grandprix.com. I was still in school and I loved Formula 1, so I made an F1 website for fun keeping up with F1 news during my lunch hour. I received a handful of unprovoked rather arrogant emails from Saward every so often.

 

He takes aim at anyone who is not in the paddock and dares to write a single word about Formula 1, even as a hobby in school! He still periodically makes blog post about that, calling those without access frauds. 

 

I probably should let it go it's been years haha! But on occasions when I do read his articles and his comments below them he still displays the same rude and attacking qualities. 

 

No liable here, just my experience.

[Mark8539]

For me Joe Saward's articles are easily the best of any of the F1 journalists. He says it how he sees its plus he goes into much more researched detail. Sure, sometimes he gets it wrong but who doesn't? Most of the other journalists just seem to spout the same old stuff that everyone else does - often you may as well just read the press releases direct. I read other journalist's articles and think, 'I could have written that'. Plus I like his writing style, enjoy his general musings blogs and also his articles about life on the road travelling to the races.

[Nonesuch]

Quite interesting, I wonder who the potential new owners are.

 

Why? Is there even the slightest indication that any real or theoretical new owners would do something with the team that's different from the current owners?

 

It seems more interesting that after having a Bianchi/Ferrari period, a Wehrlein/Mercedes match, the team is now also welcoming Renault's Ocon into the car. They seem to be branching out and becoming a warm-up room for manufacturers without their own (de facto) B-team. That seems like quite a sensible strategy, and one that the owners, whoever they are, would be keen to continue.

[Myrvold]

For me Joe Saward's articles are easily the best of any of the F1 journalists. He says it how he sees its plus he goes into much more researched detail. Sure, sometimes he gets it wrong but who doesn't? Most of the other journalists just seem to spout the same old stuff that everyone else does - often you may as well just read the press releases direct. I read other journalist's articles and think, 'I could have written that'. Plus I like his writing style, enjoy his general musings blogs and also his articles about life on the road travelling to the races.

 

If you look past that he himself have said that on his blog he is not an journalist. He is a blogger.

[PayasYouRace]

Manor seem to have finally made progress as an independent team whereas Virgin and Marussia didn't seem to do much. If there is a potential new owner I'd hope they'd keep their hands out of the important decisions and let the racers do their job.

[KWSN - DSM]

"Strike it when it's hot"

 

Selling now would be the way to actually make money on Manor rather than selling at a loss some years downstream.

 

[AustinF1]

Told y'all.

[Ross Stonefeld]

"Manor Sale"

 

Breathtaking

[scheivlak]

"Manor Sale"

 

Breathtaking

Top Google search: https://www.manor.ch/de/u/sale

[Vettelari]

I've thought ever since the original owners departure last year that Honda would eventually buy out Manor and run their own factory team. Just a complete guess with very little behind it.

[loki]

Manor for sale?  Like Downton Abbey?

 

They do have points last year and this year so they'll get some money and perks for the next couple of years.  That puts them in a much better position than they've been in since the first iteration of the team took to the grid.  I doubt it would be Honda.  Perhaps someone like Lawrence Stroll.  Or Stefan GP or Colin Kolles or VW....        

[teejay]

Saward, Windsor, Allen etc all need headlines to keep traffic to them - and sometimes there are their own interests in heart with these stories too. 

[KWSN - DSM]

This thread is a sample of running with rumors, his article / blog is 1140 words, his hint of a Manor sale is 8 words.

 

"There are other notes that say “Manor sale”

 

Is this really enough to slam him? Try read the article and then have an opinion on the meat and potatoes in that one, rather than knee-jerk like a pavlovian dog when you hear his name.

 

Edited by KWSN - DSM, 06 September 2016 - 02:58.

[Dangerpaws]

I remember Tavo Hellmund had an interest in this team a while back...

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/121747

[Kristian]

Saward, Windsor, Allen etc all need headlines to keep traffic to them - and sometimes there are their own interests in heart with these stories too. 

 

He didn't put it in his headline or anything, he's just trying to make us aware of rumours going on.

 

Most of this board moans about F1 being too closed and cliquey, yet someone tries to bring us the rumours and he's castigated. I don't get it. 

[jonpollak]

Just a friendly warning folks. Mr Saward does read this BB...

Good lord, I hope he has a turbo scroll feature on his laptop.

 

It's a good read, this most recent piece, and I enjoyed a lot of his socio-economic observations.

I too dislike the Nouveau riche and have been exposed to many that parade themselves in the same manner as 'Donald Duck.'

 

“If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave it to.” -Dorothy Parker

 

Formula One is a sporting niche that, to me, resembles the timbre and aesthetics of Las Vegas.

 

As my Father once informed me....

"Las Vegas serves a very important function. Everyone you'd never want to meet is there"

 

On to the future of F1 ownership and it's machinations soon then.

Are we going to encounter mind numbing levels of showbiz tweaking and format fiddling?

Will it increase viewing figures and add 'value'?

 

I fear there is a large possibility that we will experience something called "The Chase".... in more ways than one.

 

 

Jp

[Nonesuch]

Most of this board moans about F1 being too closed and cliquey, yet someone tries to bring us the rumours and he's castigated. I don't get it.

 
What rumours? Those two words? The implication that "Back of the field team is maybe, potentially, perhaps looking at possible new owners to finance overly expensive hobby" isn't exactly much of a rumour; that has been the - if not monthly then at least annual - reality of these teams for decades. What's left is no named sources, no names of potentially interested people, no timeline, no nothing.

Perhaps the piece would be better received if the 'rumours' weren't limited to one or two keywords with the rest of the post being paragraph upon paragraph of criticism of a man about which the author declares he would be "happy to apply my boot to the rear of his twill trousers". Charming.

Edited by Nonesuch, 06 September 2016 - 10:28.

[jonpollak]

Another candidate for 'turbo scroll'

 

Jp

[Talisman]

 
Perhaps the piece would be better received if the 'rumours' weren't limited to one or two keywords with the rest of the post being paragraph upon paragraph of criticism of a man about which the author declares he would be "happy to apply my boot to the rear of his twill trousers". Charming.

 

Sure its rude but then again we've all met individuals like that right?  People who have all the time in the world for those they view as on the same level and worth talking to but won't even acknowledge the existence of lesser mortals let alone be polite to them.  His rant is entirely understandable, most of us have felt the same at some point in our lives and its only a blog after all...

 

Given Saward's style I'm sure he'll go back to the single sentence he devoted to Manor and flesh it out a little when he has settled down after his trip to Italy.

[LiftAndCoast]

Personally I love the F1 rumour mill, to me it's part of the appeal of the sport.

Obviously they don't all turn out to be right, but I always take them with a grain of salt. Some of what seem to be the craziest rumours are the ones that turn out to be true, while the more logical ones don't come to pass.

I'd rather hear 10 rumours, one or two of which turn out to be true, than none at all.

I understand why people have issues with Saward, I have some myself but he's got very good sources. Sometimes he's spectacularly wrong (Mansoor Ijaz, anyone?) but I always look forward to reading his little green notebook column. And while his tone tends to the supercilious too often, I respect what he does and the fact that he lets readers freely comment on his blog, even to express strident disagreement.

Edit: getting back on topic, a sale of Manor wouldn't surprise me at all. Stephen Fitzpatrck has never struck me as someone interested in F1 for the long term, rather an entrepreneur who saw a bargain and the opportunity to make a buck in the world's most glamorous sport. But hey, what do I know.

Edited by LiftAndCoast, 06 September 2016 - 10:54.

[David99]

He's a rude and pompus man.

 

My only one on one experience of him was many years ago, must have been around 2004-2005 when he wrote for grandprix.com. I was still in school and I loved Formula 1, so I made an F1 website for fun keeping up with F1 news during my lunch hour. I received a handful of unprovoked rather arrogant emails from Saward every so often.

 

He takes aim at anyone who is not in the paddock and dares to write a single word about Formula 1, even as a hobby in school! He still periodically makes blog post about that, calling those without access frauds. 

 

I probably should let it go it's been years haha! But on occasions when I do read his articles and his comments below them he still displays the same rude and attacking qualities. 

 

No liable here, just my experience.

 

Absolutely, I appreciate his passion, experience and direct writing but totally agree regarding the comments on the attitude sometimes dished out.

[Buttoneer]

Please can we please get past the discussion of Saward as an individual please. Pretty please.

I appreciate your opinion of the accuracy with which he has reported on past events will inform your views about how to treat this piece of information, so we can't fully divorce what was reported from the person who reported it. However, although examples of where he has been right and wrong might be useful, whether he has been pleasant or unpleasant are not.

Please try not to make personal remarks.

[kevinracefan]

'Twas ever thus.

 

Jordan -> Midland -> Spyker -> Force India

 

Tyrrell -> BAR -> Honda -> Brawn -> Mercedes

 

Toleman -> Benetton -> Renault -> Fauxtus -> Renault

 

Williams -> De Tomaso -> Iso-Rivolta -> Williams -> Wolf -> RIP  [Williams today is really a separate entity started in 1977]

Stewart > Jaguar> Red Bull...

[Fastcake]

So I actually read his blog post, and it turns out this whole thread is based upon two words... A rather non-story, no?