29 replies to this topic

[dweller23]

So we've had some threads on stewards consistency, but stewards bias was rarely discussed in recent years (Hamilton in Monaco couple of years ago and Verstappen moves this year), but it was always about stewards reactions to what was happening on track.

 

However, what I found weird today is a situation when Brundle was doing his gridwalk and met with his old friend and FIA Steward, Derek Warwick. They've talked about couple of things and at the end Warwick said "I hope Lewis will win and regain the lead in WDC standings". Obviously, everyone is entitled to have their favorite drivers, but when you become FIA Steward, I would think you should be completely impartial.

 

I thought it was odd, but what was even more interesting to me was fact that Rosberg got his penalty for overtaking Raikkonen pretty much immediately after Hamilton's engine gave up.

 

I don't want to discuss whether the penalty was reasonable or not, but the fact that FIA Steward was cheering for a specific driver. I don't think this should be happening (as it indicates that some of the decisions made by FIA are biased) and I am quite disappointed with Warwick's comments.

[SophieB]

You know it was Derek Warwick that was part of the steward team that cleared Rosberg in Monaco 2014, right? And said Hamilton should 'man up' about it all right? Were you okay with those comments.

[SenorSjon]

Warwick was also harsh on Verstappen last year with penalty points all over the place in Abu Dhabi. Compare that to Gutierrez and blue flags this year.

I wouldn't have penalized Rosberg this race for example.

[DS27]

Whilst a steward may be professional and not let his personal views impact any penalty's given, I do think that if you are in that role, you should probably not air your strong views on who you want to win to the mass media.

 

I raised this exact same question when Warwick done it pre-race at Silverstone a few years ago. 

[dweller23]

You know it was Derek Warwick that was part of the steward team that cleared Rosberg in Monaco 2014, right? And said Hamilton should 'man up' about it all right? Were you okay with those comments.

Of course I was, because those comments did not support any driver in any way. Today he clearly stated he is supporting Hamilton.

[Marklar]

Dereck Warwick has an history of dishing out penalties on Hamilton and criticising him though

Edited by Marklar, 02 October 2016 - 10:51.

[SophieB]

Dereck Warwick has an history of dishing out penalties on Hamilton and criticising him though

Exactly.

[SophieB]

Of course I was, because those comments did not support any driver in any way. Today he clearly stated he is supporting Hamilton.

it demonstrates he is not partisan to Hamilton on the basis of his history. It is not usual to follow up steward decisions with how the driver who would have been on pole should get over it etc. And you are overlooking several instances of Warwick being fiercely critical of Hamilton. But I never reckoned I'd see the day when Derek Warwick got told his pro Lewis bias is too obvious lol.

[Annoying Twit]

Whilst a steward may be professional and not let his personal views impact any penalty's given, I do think that if you are in that role, you should probably not air your strong views on who you want to win to the mass media.

 

I raised this exact same question when Warwick done it pre-race at Silverstone a few years ago. 

 

Very much agreed. It was similar when Bernie used to be openly pro-Ferrari/Schumacher in those years. Someone in a position of power should be seen to be impartial. Nobody will be fully impartial, but they should strive to both act impartially, and appear impartial. 

 

BTW: I am suspicious at the size of the penalty. It wasn't enough to let Kimi win and I would expect that the stewards would have known that. They gave a penalty, but the right size to create a bit of extra racing tension, but not affect the result of the race. I don't believe that Nico was ever going to catch the Red Bulls. 

Edited by Annoying Twit, 02 October 2016 - 11:01.

[HoldenRT]

Generally I haven't had much problem with the stewards this year, but comparing the overtaking rules of Nico vs Max leaves me confused.  Especially in Spa vs Hockenheim or today.  Penalise all of them or none of them.  You are either allowed to dodgem car them off the track or you are not.  Every week is like a lottery and you don't know what to expect.

 

Fair play to Max today he battled really fairly.

[AlexS]

Problem with Max is not when he is in back, it is when he is front and change direction at last minute.

[AlexS]

With so weak penalties i think drivers will start to prefer to not hand back position when they get it by cutting a corner or other general unfair pass.

 

if Rosberg instead of crashing into Kimi would have just cut the corner he would have gave the position back.  A much bigger penalty.

Edited by AlexS, 02 October 2016 - 12:52.

[jonpollak]

My wife should be a steward...

She'd penalize the hell out of all the drivers every lap.

 

Just like she does to me.

 

Jp

[FullOppositeLock]

I remember seeing this Warwick interview and thinking "what an odd thing to say" for a race steward. It was conpletely unsolicited and out of the blue too. Weird lack of constraint for an official

[TF110]

Regardless of his feelings about who he wants to win, Rosberg deserved the penalty. Maybe there's some inconsistency in their rulings, but they occasionally get it right. 

[LiftAndCoast]

Justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done.

I don't doubt that Warwick can, and did, carry out his duties as steward impartially.

But it's very poor form for a steward, or any other race official, to talk about cheering for a driver in the race. He should be smarter about responding that way in the future.

[Jerem]

Warwick used to be too harsh on Hamilton, hence none of the decisions the stewards make regarding Rosberg's behavior on track can be deemed too harsh on Rosberg.

 

Logic. 

[Dr. Austin]

I don't want to discuss whether the penalty was reasonable or not, but the fact that FIA Steward was cheering for a specific driver. I don't think this should be happening (as it indicates that some of the decisions made by FIA are biased) and I am quite disappointed with Warwick's comments.

 

You can have your favorite drivers and still be impartial in judgement. For example, I wanted Rosberg to win the championship, so you could say he's my favorite. however, I was the first to criticize him after Barcelona, Austria and Germany. Not everyone is as crazed and irrational as a die hard Nico or Hamilton fan.

 

I can tell you exactly why Warick wanted Lewis to win ...... for Britain. That's fine as long as he can set that aside when he puts on his steward badge. I can't believe every single European is so nationalistically  biased that they are all completely irrational. Out of all of Europe, there has to be at least one or two fair people.

[Dr. Austin]

But it's very poor form for a steward, or any other race official, to talk about cheering for a driver in the race. He should be smarter about responding that way in the future.

 

However, I agree with this.

[Clatter]

Very much agreed. It was similar when Bernie used to be openly pro-Ferrari/Schumacher in those years. Someone in a position of power should be seen to be impartial. Nobody will be fully impartial, but they should strive to both act impartially, and appear impartial. 

 

BTW: I am suspicious at the size of the penalty. It wasn't enough to let Kimi win and I would expect that the stewards would have known that. They gave a penalty, but the right size to create a bit of extra racing tension, but not affect the result of the race. I don't believe that Nico was ever going to catch the Red Bulls. 

The penalty was the same as normally handed out for the offence.

[Muppetmad]

I agree with those saying Warwick should keep his opinions to himself on driver preferences. It's not professional and doesn't help to uphold the integrity of the stewards.

 

Is he actually being biased? I'd say probably not. But he really shouldn't leave himself open to these accusations.

Edited by Muppetmad, 02 October 2016 - 18:10.

[P123]

I agree with folks that a steward should not be publicising who they want to win. They should be impartial. But they need to temper their conspiracy theories against Warwick being highly critical of Hamilton on numerous occasions, and the fact that he went above and beyond in defending Rosberg at Monaco 2014. He's by no means a flag waving fan. Besides, whilst the topic has been generated to kick Warwick, do we actually know his opinion on the incident Rosberg was penalised for? Let's not forget he's not the only steward, and quite possibly may have had an opposing view to the penalty handed out.

[d246]

There should not have been any penalties issued today (save for the pit lane speeding). 

 

Villeneuve and Arnoux would still be serving a jail sentence after their performance in Dijon.

[Tsarwash]

It's incredibly unprofessional for a referee to state his preferred outcome of an event that he is officiating at, especially right before the start of the event in front of millions of viewers. If F1 was run more professionally then this sort of thing would not be allowed to happen. I'm not saying that Warwick is biased in any way, just too casual towards the media and his duties.

[Dr. Austin]

Villeneuve and Arnoux would still be serving a jail sentence after their performance in Dijon.

 I dunno. That was as hard as it gets without any real fouls. I say if nothing on the cars gets broken let them have at it. Those two knew what they were doing and nobody pulled any dirty tricks, which is why that battle is such a classic.

[AlexS]

There should not have been any penalties issued today (save for the pit lane speeding). 

 

Villeneuve and Arnoux would still be serving a jail sentence after their performance in Dijon.

 

Seems you aren't capable even of analyzing what you see...

 

Maybe tell me when Villeneuve and Arnoux  broke part the front wing of the other one... that was a fair fight like today between Ricciardo and Max.

[chrisPB15]

Warwick should review all of his past decisions regularly so he can keep some consistency going. 

[Fastcake]

It's incredibly unprofessional for a referee to state his preferred outcome of an event that he is officiating at, especially right before the start of the event in front of millions of viewers. If F1 was run more professionally then this sort of thing would not be allowed to happen. I'm not saying that Warwick is biased in any way, just too casual towards the media and his duties.

 

Agreed. Sometimes the appearance of corruption is just as damaging as actual foul play. In this case, Warwick in his capacity as a steward should not be speaking to the media about who he wants to win the race, not when he may be called upon to adjudicate the outcome of the race. Warwick in all likelihood acted perfectly professional, but the fact that people are questioning that fact is a problem in itself.

[Dr. Austin]

Part of why we have so little wheel to wheel racing is because, first, all the asinine  chopping, blocking and swerving, and also any time the attacking car causes an accident, they get a penalty. Compare Rosberg deliberately moving from one side of the track completely to the other, driving his teammate off the road, crashing them both with no penalty, to Vettel just getting it wrong and getting a penalty.

 

The attacking car almost always gets the penalty, if the defender doesn't simply take you out, that is, so what's the point of racing when you can go for the undercut?

 

If you want to have good racing, you crack down on unfair defending, and cut the attacker a little slack. You can't divebomb guys and you can't push them off  on the exit or cut their rear tire with your wing, but you should at least be able to drive alongside of a guy without him swerving over in front of you like Verstappen did at Spa, which by the rules was actually legal! Of course you have to overate fairly, but you have no chance is the guy in front is swerving around like a drunk. 

[Clatter]

My wife should be a steward...

She'd penalize the hell out of all the drivers every lap.

 

Just like she does to me.

 

Jp

I bet you love it.