103 replies to this topic

[gannp]

I am really trying to stretch my memory back to try and get the name of the owner driver of a couple of Holdens raced years ago.

This is as much as I can remember. Who owned 2 old Holdens {FX models I think], both same colour [light blue?] with consecutive number plates [now I am really pushing the memory] either PK-351 & 352 or PK-361 & 362. He used to race them at Sandown against the likes of a young Bob Jane [maybe in an old Ford Galaxy], and Peter Manton [Mini Cooper], Brock in a Holden and Moffatt  roughly around the 1960 era. He used to also drag PK 351 [or 361] with success at the only official drag strip in Victoria at the time, run by Victoria Police to get us young blokes off the streets, which was at the wartime Government Aircraft Factory airstrip at Fishermans Bend beside the Yarra in Melbourne.

 

As a hint the only name I can come up with is Norm Beechy but don't let that influence you because I can still remember him winning in a Ford Mustang too. This is really pushing my recall. Someone asked me a fair while ago and it has annoyed me ever since. Would like to get it off my mind.

Anybody able to help? I would be amazed if all I have said is accurate as I only have a 73 yr old memory to work with trying to remember something from around 55+ years ago.

Edited by gannp, 15 October 2016 - 00:01.

[lyntonh]

Certainly Norm Beechey.

 

If I have it correctly, PK752 was his black FX, & PK751 was the S4.

[GeoffR]

The Beechey EH was definitely PK 751, a guy in Mildura back in the early 1970s claimed to have the original car. Whether it was or not it did have the PK 751 plates. I thought that Beechey also had this rego number on the early models?

[Ray Bell]

lynton has it right...

Beechey's 48/215 was PK-752, then he got the PK-751 plates for the EH.

In neither of these cars did he race against Brock or Moffat, their careers beginning in the time of Beechey in the Mustang and (for Brock) in the Camaro. Bob Jane raced the Jag until some time in 1965, then went to Mustang, he never had a Galaxie.

In fact, the only Australian-owned racing Galaxie was the property of Len Lukey and was driven by Lex Davison and Beechey.

Good to see you dragging your 73-year-old memory in to posting here, by the way, I'm sure there are some things you can tell us we didn't know.

[Kenzclass]

100% on those plate numbers.
Another question, though:
Did the S4 ever run on Webers in Beechey's ownership? I only recall it on 3 x 2 inch SU's.
Muir's was only ever on Webers though, IIRC.

Edited by Kenzclass, 12 October 2016 - 11:05.

[Ray Bell]

Spot on...

SUs were the only things Norm ran, Muir only ran the Webers. Muir's 48/215 (later Max Stahl's) also ran Webers.

[TerryS]

A few photos from Autopics may be of interest:

http://autopics.com....bing-the-photo/

http://autopics.com....er-peter-dabbs/

http://autopics.com....-lakeside-1964/

http://autopics.com....wick-farm-1965/

Ah, memories....

[Lee Nicolle]

100% on those plate numbers.
Another question, though:
Did the S4 ever run on Webers in Beechey's ownership? I only recall it on 3 x 2 inch SU's.
Muir's was only ever on Webers though, IIRC.

I seem to remember a pic of Graham Moore hammering the EH firewall to fit Webers. The SUs should have fit without such mods.

I suspect all the manifolds then would have been homemade. Later on you could buy an 'offset' manifold to fit Webers on an EH as well as LC LJ Torana with the heater box in place.

[TerryS]

Spot on...

SUs were the only things Norm ran, Muir only ran the Webers. Muir's 48/215 (later Max Stahl's) also ran Webers.

https://www.tradeuni...4-(1963)-review
look at fifth photo across, clearly Webers

Edited by TerryS, 13 October 2016 - 09:09.

[ellrosso]

Here are some pics of the Beechey EH, engine bay and FX.

[Kenzclass]

Thanks for your confirmation, Ray; and Terry for posting that article from UC's; that was the article that prompted my question as it shows Webers.
From memory, I think the Carlectibles model also has it on Webers, not that that would be any reliable reference point!
The SU's throats look larger than the maximum 2 inch HD size; perhaps they are 2.25 or 2.5 H types.
Anyone got any further info on them?

[Ray Bell]

I see mention on that page that Ford had ordered 125 sets of the Globe wheels for the Phase 4...

A bit shabby on the research there, by those years the Bathurst minimum production requirement had moved on from the old numbers. 125 didn't cut it any more.

[TerryS]

I see mention on that page that Ford had ordered 125 sets of the Globe wheels for the Phase 4...A bit shabby on the research there, by those years the Bathurst minimum production requirement had moved on from the old numbers. 125 didn't cut it any more.

Ray I have to admit you have lost me here.

Other than as a distraction, I fail to see what your reply has got to do with whether Beechey's EH had Webers?

[Lee Nicolle]

https://www.tradeuni...4-(1963)-review
look at fifth photo across, clearly Webers

While I have no idea of what the car ran that pic I feel is a later period, 

Though as I said somewhere I have seen a pic of the firewall being 'modified'

A chap [whose name escapes me] had the EH and I feel the Galaxie too in the 90s. He was in Victoria and moved to WA.

[Terry Walker]

Dunno about that exactly. A WA bloke named Neville Cooper bought the FX, raced it here in WA and in the east, and totalled it. There's some stuff about that on my website Terrywalkersplace.com, in the article about Neville's career. Had quite a long chat with him about it and went through his photo album with him.

[gannp]

Thanks to everyone. It was so long ago and my recall was slightly off. Although bringing back to mind a number plate from 55 years ago and only be out by 1 number isn't too shabby!!!!

 

At least I can now lay the matter to rest.

 

I recall Norm well at the Aircraft factory old airstrip [then a dragstrip] . I was there the day a bloke [this will really tes

t my remaining brain cells] Eddie Thomas? broke 100mph for the first time in Australia. Police did a top job with that place. Remember getting a little "exuberant" on leaving one Sunday and I rolled my FX. Cops helped push it back on to its wheels and off we drove. Not a word from any of them. Full marks!

Was fun to watch the Mini Cooper darting in and out among the monolith American sheetmetal monsters to take the chequered flag at Sandown. I was never in to the technical stuff but that was a fabulous era. Maybe it was actually Beechey I recall in the Galaxie. I can still see it in my minds eye roaring around Sandown against the Jag, the Camaro, and a lot of very big heavy US machinery.

 

My sincere thanks to everyone for clearing that up for me [and it seems it sparked some good debate amongst yourselves as well!!!]

Edited by gannp, 15 October 2016 - 00:04.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by TerryS
Ray I have to admit you have lost me here.

Other than as a distraction, I fail to see what your reply has got to do with whether Beechey's EH had Webers?

It goes to the integrity of the story, Terry...

And as the page was cited I thought it relevant to mention this.

By the way, I don't think the story mentions whether or not Beechey's car had Webers. The photo is clearly from a more modern era.




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 14 October 2016 - 10:47.

[minime]

Eddie Thomas ran Australia's first blown rail and the blower was mounted in front of the motor and driven off the front of the crank. Bad picture here...http://www.outlawspe...ntent/129425893

[Lee Nicolle]

Eddie Thomas ran Australia's first blown rail and the blower was mounted in front of the motor and driven off the front of the crank. Bad picture here...http://www.outlawspe...ntent/129425893

It seems quite a few blowers were crankshaft driven in front of the engine in the early days in the US. There is quite  few pics on various sites with such. Small block Chevs mostly so late 50s though as we know once the hemi came in everything else was obsolete.

I spent an hour on an article about Don Garlits and the evolution from sidevalves to hemis then high mounted blowers then the evolution to rear engine in a  decade.

Here in Oz we seemed to be a couple of years behind in both equipment then times. Mind you a early 70s fuel dragster time is now slower than an Aussie owned low buck  street driven Chevelle with a turbo Chev.

The quick 'streeters' are doing 6.05 and 250mph.

Refer to Hot Rod Drag Week

[seldo]

Terry - do you drink nettle tea for brekkie? Every post you make, it seems you have a nettle up your klacker... They add nothing to the thread, as does this post of mine...

[Lee Nicolle]

Here are some pics of the Beechey EH, engine bay and FX.

I do like Norms driving apparel. The car looks like it has had celebatory roof walks too.

The engine shot I suspect is very early in the cars development. God knows what those carbs are, I have never seen an SU like that. And those extractors are too big for that engine!

It seems it may have a vaccuum tank for the brakes, those red hoses are vaccuum hose.

[TerryS]

A little bit of nostalgia Quite different after watching Bathurst last weekend.

[gannp]

Eddie Thomas ran Australia's first blown rail and the blower was mounted in front of the motor and driven off the front of the crank. Bad picture here...http://www.outlawspe...ntent/129425893

Ahh memories. THAT WAS IT!! Thnx minime.

[GeoffR]

A pic that I found of 2" SUs, look similar to those on Beechey's EH in 1964 ......

 

Edited by GeoffR, 15 October 2016 - 10:44.

[bradbury west]

I always understood that those with the square shouldered narrower dashpot tops were different beasts. ISTR , but may be wrong, seeing them on some early Climaxes and Jaguars. Maybe wrong, not unknown.... but I believe they are the early sandcast dashpots, much sought after these days.
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 15 October 2016 - 11:01.

[Kenzclass]

Yep, Beechey's were sandcasts, found in period on C type Jags, and as an option on earlier XK sportys.
You can now buy repro's from Burlen & some Jag specialists in UK.
Think both genuine & repro's fall into the category of "If you have to ask the price....".

[Lee Nicolle]

Those look like what I am used too. It seems they were made with the bowls front or rear. Those 2" usually were Jag in sets of 2.

All the 1 3/4 sets I have had have the bowls at the front. The ones I have are supposedly early Austin 1800.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 16 October 2016 - 05:04.

[Ian G]

Yep, Beechey's were sandcasts, found in period on C type Jags, and as an option on earlier XK sportys.
You can now buy repro's from Burlen & some Jag specialists in UK.
Think both genuine & repro's fall into the category of "If you have to ask the price....".

Wandering off topic again and talking about rare/pricey SU's but i had a guy that wanted to swap a couple of twin throat SU's for some BMC Competition engine bits i had(Twin Cam Rods,competition pistons,cams',dizzy. etc). We were all anti SU at the time and Weber mad so knocked him back,regretted it ever since even if they only sat on a shelf which Frank Matich said was the best place for them.

There are photo's of them on the Internet as my Photo sharing website isn't working.

[Wilyman]

The bloke in the green overalls, would that be Claude Morton, Beecheys mechanic?

Made famous by the Neptune Oil TV ad. "Claude Was Amazed". This was a catchcry with the 'youf' of the '60's.

 

The square shouldered SU's do look like Jaguar kit. I always thought that the SU float bowls should be at the front so that the fuel level remained at the main jet?

Nobody told Norm.

[Lee Nicolle]

Wandering off topic again and talking about rare/pricey SU's but i had a guy that wanted to swap a couple of twin throat SU's for some BMC Competition engine bits i had(Twin Cam Rods,competition pistons,cams',dizzy. etc). We were all anti SU at the time and Weber mad so knocked him back,regretted it ever since even if they only sat on a shelf which Frank Matich said was the best place for them.

There are photo's of them on the Internet as my Photo sharing website isn't working.

I have seen those 2bbl SUs, 3 of them on a Valiant. No idea how good or bad they were. But were different.

SUs are simple and can make more peak power but also not as driveable as a properly set up set of Webers. And there is nothing like the sound of them!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Wilyman
The bloke in the green overalls, would that be Claude Morton, Beecheys mechanic?
Made famous by the Neptune Oil TV ad. "Claude Was Amazed". This was a catchcry with the 'youf' of the '60s.
 
The square shouldered SU's do look like Jaguar kit. I always thought that the SU float bowls should be at the front so that the fuel level remained at the main jet?
Nobody told Norm.

Yes, that is Claude...

But I think Lee was referring to the tee shirt Norm has on inside the car. The Neptune Team 'uniform' of the day.

I also understood that it was beneficial to have the bowls at the front, but maybe it's less critical with SUs than other carbies?

[TerryS]

But I think Lee was referring to the tee shirt Norm has on inside the car. The Neptune Team 'uniform' of the day.

Ray, prior to racing suits this is what the Neptune Team drivers wore as a uniform whendriving, short sleeve sports shirt and ordinary grey trousers.

I remember in early 60's at Warwick Farm Big Norm getting out of his car after a race wearing the old "desert boots". Nothing fancy.

https://www.google.c...U1Kgccdkt-mCrM:

I recall Bob Jane wearing T-shirts in those days but he was more muscular.

[Lee Nicolle]

Just had a look at the    '1982 ATCC Sandown Support Race Appendix J'  on You Tube. Search that and you will find it.

This was the abandoned race when the blue Mini tried to draft the ex McKay Jag  on the front straight and ended up hitting a marshall .

The ex Beechey EH was racing, the driver was Gavin Sala whose name I had forgotten.

In the race was Greg Toepher in the brown EH driving shades of Norm!

And Dennis Obrien in a Mustang.

 

 

And both are still racing GpN

[Librules]

As per the Unique Cars article referenced above,  Gavin Sala located and restored Norm's EH, but I think he sold it some time ago.   Son Gavin is now quite competitive in a Matich and an ex Longhurst Sierra....

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by TerryS
Ray, prior to racing suits this is what the Neptune Team drivers wore as a uniform when driving, short sleeve sports shirt and ordinary grey trousers.....

.....I recall Bob Jane wearing T-shirts in those days but he was more muscular.

I should have remembered that, Terry...



And here's a clearer view of the 'racing suit' in the car:



The fun days of Catalina Park and the Katoomba Auto Chef, which looked down on Dunlop Corner (and most of the rest of the circuit).



Did Bob wear the blue tee shirt while driving?



.

Edited by Ray Bell, 17 October 2016 - 21:59.

[Lee Nicolle]

I have a feeling he is a different Sala family. There does seem to be a few.

Thereis/ was a Bryan Sala racing open wheelers as well.

Possibly all related though, a bit like the Bargwarna clan!

[Librules]

My bad, Lee.  It is the same family.    I inadvertantly named the current racer as Bryan when he is actually Gavin (son of Bryan) .    Bryan has a rich history in racing and has restored a number of cars over the years..    I think they currently have a car sales and mechanical repair business in outer Melbourne.

[TerryS]

I should have remembered that, Terry...


Did Bob wear the blue tee shirt while driving?

.

Ray, a couple of photos from Autopics of Bob Jane in tee shirts.

http://autopics.com....ap-calder-1962/

http://autopics.com....r-lance-ruting/

http://autopics.com....r-peter-d-abbs/

http://autopics.com....er-peter-dabbs/

The second shot could be after he wrote off the Mustang

The shot of the Elfin mono he looks to have a short sleeve shirt of some sort

I must say its great how threads like this develop into so much interesting stuff. It's amazing and brings back so many memories. I was at Catalina the day of the Mustang accident.

[Paul Hamilton]

I should have remembered that, Terry...



And here's a clearer view of the 'racing suit' in the car:



The fun days of Catalina Park and the Katoomba Auto Chef, which looked down on Dunlop Corner (and most of the rest of the circuit).



Did Bob wear the blue tee shirt while driving?



.

 Can anyone identify the man in the middle in the shorty PJs?   Its clearly a young Bob Jane on the left and I think the guy with his back to the camera is Wal Donnelly then a regular front runner at Catalina in the Turner which can be seen on the left of the photo.

[Dick Willis]

The Turner is for sale again, you should buy it back again Paul.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by TerryS
Ray, a couple of photos from Autopics of Bob Jane in tee shirts.

http://autopics.com....r-lance-ruting/

The second shot could be after he wrote off the Mustang.....

Yes. that does look like the facial injuries he got in that crash...

I was also there, of course. Catalina drew big crowds those days, it was always fun. But Harry Firth wasn't there... I don't know who has identified him as being in the pic, but Leo Geoghegan is behind Bob and John Sawyer to his left, no idea who the 'partial' is on the left, but it's not Harry.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Paul Hamilton
Can anyone identify the man in the middle in the shorty PJs?   It's clearly a young Bob Jane on the left and I think the guy with his back to the camera is Wal Donnelly then a regular front runner at Catalina in the Turner which can be seen on the left of the photo.

You've seen the pic before, Paul, I'm sure...

Later that day he would win the Australian Tourist Trophy.

You also know where the photo was taken, famous for its cherry on top of the ice cream.

And this pic, coincidentally, was taken within a few metres of the Turner photo, almost 48 years later, and I didn't take this one:

Edited by Ray Bell, 18 October 2016 - 11:13.

[seldo]

Can anyone identify the man in the middle in the shorty PJs?   Its clearly a young Bob Jane on the left and I think the guy with his back to the camera is Wal Donnelly then a regular front runner at Catalina in the Turner which can be seen on the left of the photo.

Pete Geoghegan

[Dale Harvey]

Pete Geoghegan

My thoughts too.

Dale.

[Ray Bell]

Yes, it's Pete, the 'old Holden driver' from the early Appendix J days...

And who won the ATT later that day. Photos are in front of the Chermside Caravilla.

[Paul Hamilton]

Dick, I would love to have the Turner back and gave it some serious thought when Ian Barberie sold it but my wife is quite firmly of the view that I already have too many cars.  Happy wife = happy life!!

 

It seems Wal had an all star support team for his busy early Sunday morning!  It looks as if he may have had the cylinder head off the Turner.

[Ray Bell]

That's right, Paul...

He has the head off and the manifolds are still bolted to it, I think he'd done a head gasket.

[Dick Willis]

Dick, I would love to have the Turner back and gave it some serious thought when Ian Barberie sold it but my wife is quite firmly of the view that I already have too many cars.  Happy wife = happy life!!

 

It seems Wal had an all star support team for his busy early Sunday morning!  It looks as if he may have had the cylinder head off the Turner.

My wife says that too !

[Lee Nicolle]

Use the Jay Leno method of justification,, pay X amount  for it now and in 10 years time it will be worth twice as much.

And in many cases this is very true!

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 19 October 2016 - 02:22.

[TerryS]

A little O/T but some Old Race Photos of Turners. Especially for younger readers who may not recall them:

http://www.oldraceph...#9460_F_Turn_69

http://www.oldraceph...471_F_Sports_71

http://www.oldraceph...#8772_F_Hami_68

http://www.oldraceph...472_F_Sports_71