31 replies to this topic

[ChrisD]

I was reading the letters page in the April 1933 Motor Sport magazine (as you do!!) and came across a letter from a John P Lloyd of Mill Hill N W 7, saying that Scuderia Ferrari were going to run a team of MG Magnettes in the 1934 season. 

 

Autocar had reported in 1932 that the Austin Seven which had been driven by Charles Goodacre in the 1931 Mille Miglia had been entered for the 1932 Mille Miglia by Scuderia Ferrari, but that having "been driven in practice with more brio than discretion" the car failed to make the start due to engine problems.

 

I have never previously read anything else about Ferrari running (or having the intention to run) small capacity British cars.  Can anyone enlighten me further?

[Robin Fairservice]

The book "Maintaining the Breed" by John Thornley does not make any references to Scuderia Ferrari entering MG's in the Mille Miglia.  The MG K3 Magnettes were run by the MG works in 1933 and 1934.  In August 1935 Lord Nuffeild stopped all MG works racing.

[Vitesse2]

Putting two and two together I reckon this might have been a bit of kite-flying by Johnny Lurani. He had campaigned his own modified Alfa Romeo 6C-1500 in some of the few voiturette events of the early 1930s and not a few hillclimbs. In 1931-2 Lurani and Henri Tauber had both tried - unsuccessfully - to persuade Alfa to build a specialist voiturette, so I wonder if Johnny had put a plan to Enzo for a possible expansion of the Scuderia into 1500cc or 1100cc racing? He was one of the drivers in the 1933 MG works effort in the Mille Miglia and would continue his loose association and friendship with Eyston for many years.

 

So, why wouldn't SF have bought some K3s? Perhaps because of the possible reaction from their followers who could have seen this as a further betrayal after the team had chosen Nortons and Rudges for their bike racing effort? Or maybe simply because there were too few 1100cc events to be worth bothering about.

[raceannouncer2003]

This link shows Scuderia Ferrari entering ten Alfas in the 1932 Mille Miglia, ranging from 1500 to 2300 cc.  Also, one 750 cc Austin Seven, which didn't appear.

 

http://www.racingspo...1932-04-10.html

 

Also, found this video of 1932 Mille Miglia...incredible.  #37 was an MG Midget, #88 was Caracciola, etc.

 

 

Vince H.

Edited by raceannouncer2003, 18 October 2016 - 05:43.

[Roger Clark]

Scuderia Ferrari (Orsini and Zagari) says:

 

"In view of its uncertainties following Alfa's decision (to withdraw from racing early in 1933), the Scuderia showed more than a passing interest in other manufacturers' cars considering, purely in principle, the purchase of two Maserati 8CMs and three MG K3 Magnettes - the new 6-cylinder 1100cc machines which spent the early months of the year practicing desperately hard for the forthcoming Mille Miglia, and one prototype of which Earl Howe , George Eyston and 'Johnny' Lurani-Cernuschi had brought to Modena to demonstrate to Ferrari himself.  But the MG and Maserati tie was not pursued further..."

[ChrisD]

Thanks for that, Robin

[ChrisD]

Probably right about Lurani.  Although he was incredibly supportive of foreign entries into the Mille Miglia, he was also a bit prone to exaggeration and could embroider a story quite well.  I recently read Georges Roesch and the Invincible Talbot.  There are some fascinating insights into Lurani in the chapter on the 1932 Mille Miglia. 

[ChrisD]

Thanks to all.  There is some interesting stuff there, especially the You Tube clip and the extract from the Orsini and Zagari book.  Really appreciate your replies.

[Roger Clark]

In his book Racing Round the World, Lurani says that he visited England in November 1931 and went with howe, Gallop and Eyston to Abingdon and discussed an MG entry in the Mille Miglia with Cecil Kimber.  He does not mention Scuderia Ferrari in this context.

[fuzzi]

The subject of the Scuderia Ferrari Austin Seven  was covered in some depth on the austinsevenfriends.com forum.

 

In essence the factory car that ran in the 1931 Mille Miglia, driven by Charles Goodacre and Francesco Trevisan and finished second in the 1100c sports class to Tuffanelli and Bertocchi in the Maserati beating the Fiats (which was Sir Herbert Austin's aim). The car was left out in Italy and was driven by Trevisan in a hill climb and may not have been not used again until being prepared for the 1932 race. The engine which was built early in 1931 had already been driven from Longbridge out to Milan, then raced for a 1,000 miles, plus the hill climb so it had exceeded the expected crankshaft life and that broke. Sadly the end of the story.

 

No trace has yet been found of the car...  

 

I didn't ever come across suggestions that Scuderia Ferrrari may take over running MG K3s when I was researching the race in the 1990s.

[Oneandhalf]

Il Littoriale 18.01.1933. Enzo Ferrari's letter: "... In breve abbiamo acquistato due delle nuove vetture tre litri monoposto che la Casa Maserati ha progettaio quest'anno. ...Infinealtre vetture abbiamo volulo avere. Abbiamo, cioe, deciso l'acquisio di tre M.G. inglese due tipo sport e una tipo corsa. Queste tre 1100 inglese e le due 1750 Alfa Romeo , sono le vetture con le quale intendiamo di far correre i nostri piu giovani piloti, per avviarli alle gare e per perfezionarli..."  (In short, we have purchased two new cars, three liter cars, the  Maserati House has designed this year. ...Finally, the other cars we wanted to have. We have decided the purchase of three M. G. english 2x sport and 1x corsa. These three 1100 english and two 1750 Alfa Romeo are the cars with which we intend to race our younger drivers, and to lead them to the races, and to perfect them...")

[Oneandhalf]

I've got the photo (unfortunately I don't know anything about copyrights because found it in the net):

Edited by Oneandhalf, 21 October 2016 - 10:04.

[Vitesse2]

c/n K3752, the second prototype and known as 'the recce car'. Has lived in Australia since 1949, although it now looks a bit different, with a more standard frontal treatment.

 

http://prewar.mgcc.i...Cars/K 3752.htm

 

I suppose I ought to recognise all six men, but I've only worked out the four on the right - Nuvolari, Ferrari, Lurani, Eyston.

[Oneandhalf]

I've only worked out the four on the right - Nuvolari, Ferrari, Lurani, Eyston.

   And who next to Nuvolari? Howe? 

 

I think the photo should be dated April 1933, before MM. Three MGs were started: Howe - Hamilton, Lurani - Eyston and Birkin - Rubin. Abovementioned car JB1269 was used as T-car.

Edited by Oneandhalf, 21 October 2016 - 10:17.

[Vitesse2]

   And who next to Nuvolari? Howe? 

 

I think the photo should be dated April 1933, before MM. Three MGs were started: Howe - Hamilton, Lurani - Eyston and Birkin - Rubin. Abovementioned car JB1269 was used as T-car.

It's not His Lordship - perhaps he was the photographer? Difficult to tell under that coat and helmet, but my guess would be Hugh Hamilton - of whom there are very few portraits.

 

[Oneandhalf]

No, I'm sure - it's Earl Howe. Next to him - Eugenio Siena.

 

[Vitesse2]

I haven't been able to find a picture of him standing with Tazio, but I really don't think it's Howe. Unless he shrank or Eyston gained a few inches in the year and a half since this was taken in Dublin! He's certainly no shorter than George - possibly taller - whereas our mystery man is noticeably shorter. Agreed on Siena.

 

[Roger Clark]

The picture in post #12 appears in Scuderia Ferrari (OsiniZagari) where it says the group are: Siena, Howe, Nuvolari, Ferrari, Lurani, Eyston.  It also appears in Tim May's Howe biography where it says the same.  I would regard both books as authoritative.

 

Tim May says the picture was taken in January.  It credits Dott. Ferruccio Testi as the photographer and says the copyright is owned by the Spitzley Zagari Archive.

[Robin Fairservice]

Back to "Maintaining the Breed".  That states that Jackson took the car out to Northern Italy in January.  In Milan it was joined by Earl Howe, Henry Birkin, Eyston, Bernard Rubin, and Lurani.  Hamilton did not go as he was "tied to London" at that time.  Howe was with the car on the way out and stopped at Molsheim where Ettore Bugatti looked at it and said that the front axle wasn't strong enough.  Back at Abingdon the design was reviwed and Ettore was right.

[Roger Clark]

I think there has been some doubt cast upon the story of Bugatti and the MG front axle.  It did have to be strengthened and Howe did stop at Molsheim on his way to Italy but the MG wasn't with him.

[ChrisD]

According to Allison and Browning in their book The Works MGs, Howe drove to Molshiem in his Alfa Romeo, whilst the prototype MG and Howe's Mercedes SSK drove together to Milan where Howe joined them after his visit to Bugatti.  As Roger says, this casts doubt (or as the authors more definitely state "puts the lie to the story that Bugatti had said that the front axle was not strong enough".  They say that ...  "Apparently it was Birkin who ventured the suggestion that the front axle beam was wanting in strength since he could actually see it flexing under heavy braking ... ".

[RogerFrench]

Barre Lyndon, writing in 1934 in "Circuit Dust", says that Jackson drove the MG in convoy with Howe in his Alfa. Although he mentions the stop in Molsheim, he says nothing about the axle and Bugatti's comments. He goes on to say that Howe took over the driving of the MG in Lucerne.

[Doug Nye]

The neg of the famous photo much discussed above is indeed part of the Spitzley-Zagari Collection today, safely housed in the Cotswolds... No question, it shows Eugenio Siena, Francis Howe, Nuvolari, Ferrari , 'Johnny' Lurani and Captain Eyston.  Lurani was quite a wheeler-dealer in his own right - always on the lookout for a profitable deal or introductory commission. His perfect English and engaging personality made him very popular amongst the English racing gentry. Mr Ferrari was hugely impressed by the English toffs and heroes brought to his door by Lurani, and later by others and I have little doubt that an MG link was floated, discussed and possibly researched further...before being shelved, and forgotten (by Mr Ferrari at least).  

 

Postwar it would be the likes of Dudley Folland, Peter Whitehead, Colonel Hoare, eventually Michael Parkes who really became not just clients, or bayonet-fitting drivers, where The Old Man was concerned.  He retained quite a soft spot for the tweedy British gent type ever after.

 

DCN

[Oneandhalf]

... Colonel Hoare ...

 

DCN

 

Colonel?

[Vitesse2]

Colonel?

Ronnie Hoare's colonelcy was technically an honorary rank, although he was a brevet Lieutenant-Colonel at the time of his retirement from the army - regular officers were often 'bumped up' on retirement in order to augment their pensions and boost their CVs.

 

  ROYAL REGIMENT OF ARTILLERY.

REGULAR ARMY.

Maj. (Bt. Lt.-Col.) R. J.HOARE, C.B.E. (75515), retires receiving a gratuity, 30th June 1955, and is granted the hon. rank of Col.

https://www.thegazet...t/4155/data.pdf

[Oneandhalf]

I thought we are talking about Pat Hoare, the last private owner of Ferrari Grand Prix car . He was an ordinary private in the NZ infantry (2nd New Zealand Army Division). David Manton in "Enzo Ferrari's secret life" says: "After war Hoare returned to New Zealand and purchased with cash a half-share in a garage and service station with General Motors agencies." 

[Tim Murray]

The man in question was Colonel Ronnie Hoare, who ran the Maranello Concessionaires racing team, the subject of Doug Nye's book The Colonel's Ferraris:

https://www.amazon.c...g/dp/0906613027

My understanding is that Ronnie was no relation to Pat.

[Vitesse2]

Ah, as I have the Manton book I really should have made the connection! Colonel Ronnie Hoare was of course the boss of Maranello Concessionaires, UK Ferrari agent.

 

http://www.motorspor...res-racing-team

[Oneandhalf]

Funny photo from MG Magazine  05/1933:

 

Edited by Oneandhalf, 26 October 2016 - 07:33.

[Doug Nye]

That surely is NOT Mr Ferrari on the right of the Mussolini group photo...

 

DCN

[BRG]

It might be a Signor Ferrari, just not the Signor Ferrari.  Ferrari is Smith in Italian and isn't a very rare name.

[Doug Nye]

True.  For starters the gentleman photographed is approximately a head too short to be OUR Mr Ferrari. And then there are the facial differences, the hairline, the demeanour...and so on.

 

DCN