169 replies to this topic

[SophieB]

Motorsport.com ‏@Motorsport  6m6 minutes ago

Ross Brawn reveals he quit Mercedes because he didn't trust Wolff or Lauda: http://bit.ly/2esZJme  #F1

 

What happened at Mercedes is that people were imposed on me who I couldn't trust," Brawn says.
"I never really knew what they were trying to do. I mean Niki would tell me one thing, then I would hear he was saying something else."
Brawn then recounts the story of Wolff making critical comments about him in a conversation recorded by former F1 team boss Colin Kolles.
"So I was beginning to deal with people who I didn't feel I could ultimately trust; people within the team, who had let me down already in terms of their approach.
"Then in early 2013, I discovered Paddy Lowe had been contracted to join the team and it had been signed off in Stuttgart. When I challenged Toto and Niki, they blamed each other. I met them to have it out with them. And they both pointed to each other…"

[Marklar]

Damn Sophie, you beat me for the 2nd time today.

[SenorSjon]

I still wonder what whould happen with Mercedes when things don't go peachy. 

[Marklar]

I'm not even a bit surprised, that's exactly what I suspected.

And everything he says about them fits well to what we see from them. This will be great fun if they dont have success anymore

Edited by Marklar, 19 October 2016 - 08:28.

[superden]

I still wonder what whould happen with Mercedes when things don't go peachy.

Some light finger pointing within the team and a relatively rapid withdrawal from the sport, like all manufacturers.

[RedBaron]

So Lauda and Wolff can't be trusted? Quick, to the Hamilton conspiracy thread!

[Nemo1965]

Interesting. Gefundeness fressen for all the Toto-haters, I think...

[Gareth]

Good thread, but the typo in the title needs fixing.

 

As Marklar says: not really surprising. Nikki always comes across as one of those people who changes his opinion minute to minute but somehow has a reputation of "telling it like it is" (ie he's F1's Donald Trump).

[myattitude]

I always thought Brawn's integrity made things uncomfortable for him in the Ferrari environment, he had a chance to do things with his own team and was doing very well. It's a pity he isn't still around, although Merc haven't exactly struggled without him. All the same I'd rather he was still Mercedes team principle.

[Jejking]

I always thought Brawn's integrity made things uncomfortable for him in the Ferrari environment, he had a chance to do things with his own team and was doing very well. It's a pity he isn't still around, although Merc haven't exactly struggled without him. All the same I'd rather he was still Mercedes team principle.

Well, I'm wondering indeed what made him quit Ferrari. There were loads of stories about Montezemolo's power play, trying to break up the Dream Team. He might shine a light on that one as well one day.

[EightGear]

Don't you mean Ross Brown?

[thez]

Not surprising in the least. Least trust worthy duo imo.

Just wany RB to wipe the smugness off them next season. Then we can see what they are really made off.

[lbennie]

Red Bull found this out the hard way last year!

[Lights]

Not surprising in the least. Least trust worthy duo imo.

Just wany RB to wipe the smugness off them next season. Then we can see what they are really made off.

 

Then we'll see the very smug Red Bull back again. I don't know what the difference really is. 

[SophieB]

Sorry about the thread title typo, guys.

[Timstr11]

I wonder how Nikki and Toto will respond to this.

 

Clearly Brawn was ousted, for no good reason.

He can take pride in that the technical leadership dream team there with Aldo Costa (eng. dir.), Geoff Willis (tech. dir.), Mike Elliot (head of aero), John Owen (chief designer), Loic Serra (head of vehicle dyn.) were all Brawn appointments.

[FPV GTHO]

Red Bull found this out the hard way last year!

Could you imagine Horner and Marko without Renault to blame? Maybe the closest we got was last year when Marko said around Spain that Verstappen and Sainz Jr were doing a better job than Ricciardo and Kvyat.

[as65p]

It was very obvious that there must have been major differences between Brawn and the team to make him quit, so that's not unexpected at all.

 

In a way it's a shame Brawn couldn't reap the fruits of another brilliant chapter in his career. At the same time, whatever happens in the future with the team and even if they truly implode as soon as the technical advantage is gone, who cares. They sweeped everything for (at least) 3 years, can't really fault that. Not even if a large part of it is to Brawns credit, which I think insiders always knew anyway.

[LiftAndCoast]

The sad thing is, Wolff and Lauda have received, and will continue to receive, most of the credit for Mercedes GP's success, when the groundwork was largely laid by Brawn.

Not that Brawn will care, but as they say in warfare the victors write the history.

[LuckyStrike1]

The sad thing is, Wolff and Lauda have received, and will continue to receive, most of the credit for Mercedes GP's success, when the groundwork was largely laid by Brawn.

Not that Brawn will care, but as they say in warfare the victors write the history.

 

Given the credit he has for the Ferrari domination I don't think it will matter much 

[SophieB]

I think it is a pity we live in a Rossless F1 world now.

 

Also in the movie I hope they one day make of his life, it is now my dearest wish in life that Timothy Spall plays the part of Colin Kolles in this little vignette:

 

Brawn then recounts the story of Wolff making critical comments about him in a conversation recorded by former F1 team boss Colin Kolles.

 

Edited to add: There was a thread about the tape at the time! http://forums.autosp...ff-split-topic/

Edited by SophieB, 19 October 2016 - 10:09.

[GLT27]

Brawn is the real mastermind behind all the success that Mercedes Benz is enjoying at the moment. A shame he is not getting all the credit he deserves.

[Amphicar]

A Rossless world and soon perhaps, a Ronless and a Bernieless world too. Going to be a bit dull methinks.

[ensign14]

The sad thing is, Wolff and Lauda have received, and will continue to receive, most of the credit for Mercedes GP's success, when the groundwork was largely laid by Brawn.

Not that Brawn will care, but as they say in warfare the victors write the history.

 

Only thing is that in the list of world constructors' champions there is the name Brawn.

 

Not Wolff.

[Marklar]

A Rossless world and soon perhaps, a Ronless and a Bernieless world too. Going to be a bit dull methinks.

I was recently thinking that we had in the past people like Dennis, Todt/Brawn & Briatore on the pitwall. No disrespect to the guys nowadays, but when people say that the driver personalities are less interesting (or duller) than in the past, I always believe that it is much more the case for the team bosses.

[jstrains]

Tapegate. Unbelievable

[Nemo1965]

The sad thing is, Wolff and Lauda have received, and will continue to receive, most of the credit for Mercedes GP's success, when the groundwork was largely laid by Brawn.

Not that Brawn will care, but as they say in warfare the victors write the history.

 

That is being said and repeated over and over and the more it is repeated, the less I believe it.

[Lights]

Just wany RB to wipe the smugness off them next season. Then we can see what they are really made off.

.

But the new regs would catch Merc out and they are in for a big shock. A real big shock - then we will see what Toto and Lauda are made of. 

 

Toto is out of his depth here. As a verstapphen fan I am certain next year will be RB year and I am certain he will beat the Mercs. Then we will see what Toto is made off.

 

Wait till Merc go backwards next year. I will love to see Totos smug smile wiped off when RB are dominating next year. Then we will see what he is made off. 

 

Ticky tacky, perhaps?

[KWSN - DSM]

Brawn clearly not glossing over here, wonder what Toto and Niki will say when asked questions over the weekend.

 

[jjcale]

Headline to interview with LH at the end of his career why he left his lucrative contract with Merc a year early:  

Hamilton:  "I was beginning to deal with people who I didn't feel I could ultimately trust"

Edited by jjcale, 19 October 2016 - 10:42.

[thez]

Then we'll see the very smug Red Bull back again. I don't know what the difference really is. 

 

 

This thread is about Toto and Lauda nothing to do with Merc as a whole. They walked into a winning team created by Ross Brawn. With Horne, Newey etc they built team together and earned everything. Obviously the whole premise of my post and this thread missed.  

[FullThrottleF1]

I think it is a pity we live in a Rossless F1 world now.

 

Also in the movie I hope they one day make of his life, it is now my dearest wish in life that Timothy Spall plays the part of Colin Kolles in this little vignette:

 

Brawn then recounts the story of Wolff making critical comments about him in a conversation recorded by former F1 team boss Colin Kolles.

 

Edited to add: There was a thread about the tape at the time! http://forums.autosp...ff-split-topic/

btw what is Colin Kolles ding at the moment. He has usually tried to take over an F1 team by this point in the year 

[FLB]

Originally posted by FullThrottleF1:

 

 

btw what is Colin Kolles ding at the moment. He has usually tried to take over an F1 team by this point in the year

 

He has a team in the FIA WEC which runs a car in the LMP1-L category. The CLM is somewhat of a running gag, because when it finishes, it's a surprise.

[FLB]

On Ross Brawn: For a man who has worked with and for Tom Walkinshaw and Flavio Briatore to think that about Lauda and Wolff, that's saying something.

[peroa]

Interesting. Gefundeness fressen for all the Toto-haters, I think...

Well, we are blessed in a way, aren't we ...

[Nonesuch]

It was well known at the time that Mercedes was heading for a rather curious team structure with way too many people at the head of the pack.

 

That it didn't work out for one of them in what must have been quite the political situation isn't too surprising.

 

Not surprising in the least. Least trust worthy duo imo.

Just wany RB to wipe the smugness off them next season.

 

Mercedes leadership are the 'least' trustworthy? They sometimes strike me more as being out of their depth than anything else, and that's usually in rather delicate situations involving their two drivers - one of whom likes to make insinuating comments only to retract 'clarify' them later.

 

But to contrast them with Red Bull and Horner? The team who cheated, lied, falsely accused, and obfuscated? Really?

[Wingcommander]

I was recently thinking that we had in the past people like Dennis, Todt/Brawn & Briatore on the pitwall. No disrespect to the guys nowadays, but when people say that the driver personalities are less interesting (or duller) than in the past, I always believe that it is much more the case for the team bosses.

 

+ Patrick Head

[Riverside]

As much as I admire Ross Brawn -  I fully expected a glossing over of the people who ousted him.....   kinda predictable, no?  

 

  

  I wish he would return.   Mclaren.  Honda.   Maybe wishful thinking.  

[redreni]

It was Brawn's team but then he sold it.

 

Their current domination is built on a number of things, mainly Mercedes cash, it has to be said. I don't think you can necessarily criticise Mercedes for putting their own people in charge because, while the 2014 car was pretty much designed while Brawn was still there, Brawn then left and things did not exactly fall apart.

 

I must say, though, I think the disjoined and top-heavy way that team is run is all well and good if you're dominating. I can see it deteriorating quickly if they have to try and race a car which is in the same performance bracket as the Red Bulls, Ferraris and Mclarens.

[Vesuvius]

It was Brawn's team but then he sold it.

Their current domination is built on a number of things, mainly Mercedes cash, it has to be said. I don't think you can necessarily criticise Mercedes for putting their own people in charge because, while the 2014 car was pretty much designed while Brawn was still there, Brawn then left and things did not exactly fall apart.

I must say, though, I think the disjoined and top-heavy way that team is run is all well and good if you're dominating. I can see it deteriorating quickly if they have to try and race a car which is in the same performance bracket as the Red Bulls, Ferraris and Mclarens.

Yup, people give too much credit for Ross.He left at the end of 2013, before Mercedes started their domination,and Toto was already leading Mercedes since january 2013. Mercedes success is because of money, correct people working in correct places and current rules suiting them perfectly, not because of Ross or any other single person.

[Archer]

Well, Lauda don't seem as the kind of person that can handle a team and nurture a good working enviroment, he had to leave Ferrari as a consultant, and Jaguar went nowhere with him. At least in Mercedes he only has a simbolic and pr ocupation. Maybe he is kind of bipolar or something, as Brawn says one moment he says one thing an at the next moment he is saying the opposite.

I really want to see this duo with a Mercedes team in crysis for 2 consecutive seasons, it is then when we really will see if they are the real deal or not.

Edited by Archer, 19 October 2016 - 13:18.

[Archer]

Well, I'm wondering indeed what made him quit Ferrari. There were loads of stories about Montezemolo's power play, trying to break up the Dream Team. He might shine a light on that one as well one day.

If I recall correctly Brawn expected to replace Todt when the french left the team, Montezemolo by then had lost internal influence inside the team because of Todt management. So i guess Montezemolo felt that if he put people loyal to him, or weak people in charge of key positions inside the team he would regain control. By then Brawn was boring of the job he had been doing for a lot of years and he gave them an all or nothing ultimatum, Montezemolo denied his promotion, and Brawn left the team looking for greener pastures (Honda).

Edited by Archer, 19 October 2016 - 13:35.

[Massa_f1]

Not at all surprised to read this is the reason why Ross left.

[thez]

 

 

Mercedes leadership are the 'least' trustworthy? They sometimes strike me more as being out of their depth than anything else, and that's usually in rather delicate situations involving their two drivers - one of whom likes to make insinuating comments only to retract 'clarify' them later.

 

But to contrast them with Red Bull and Horner? The team who cheated, lied, falsely accused, and obfuscated? Really?

 

Funny you mention Lewis but Toto and Lauda are the masters of making contradictory statements and being 2 faced. Lauda has already retracted 3 comments this year - Lewis smashing up hotel room. Lewis lying about improving relations with Nico   While up till last week  Toto still pedalling the bs about other teams closing the gap this season. The laughable statements he keeps coming up with when we all know the truth just makes me think this is a 2 faced man who says one thing to the public and another in private.  This is what Brawn is alluding to, dont take anything they say as face value.  At least with Horner he will tell you what the teams position is. If they are dominant he will say they are, if they are struggling he will admit to the fact. No lies there. I guess RB's  openness is what led to the frosty relationship with Renault after their poor PU performance. Horner was not prepared to pretend with the PU situation and play the PR game or say one thing and mean another like Toto and Lauda.

 

As for claims against RB everything you say is what Merc, McLaren, Reanult and Ferrari have done. But since you are hell bent on making this about teams and not Management then it is clear you have no real come back as what you said applies to any of the top teams.  

[Marklar]

So Lauda and Wolff can't be trusted? Quick, to the Hamilton conspiracy thread!

Brawn is a lunatic

[Atreiu]

Looking at you Lauda.

[shonguiz]

Intreseting, i never suspected Wolff would have such a big mouth.

[Norm]

Headline to interview with LH at the end of his career why he left his lucrative contract with Merc a year early:  

Hamilton:  "I was beginning to deal with people who I didn't feel I could ultimately trust"

 

This could be very well true. Maybe a month or so ago I saw a quote from Eddie Jordan saying that Hamilton has already expressed this concern to a select few. If I recall correctly the BBC ran the story and then it was pulled from their site. Marklar posted the link in this thread and then deleted his post for some reason. When I went looking for the article I could not find it on the BBC site or anywhere else for that matter.

[Marklar]

This could be very well true. Maybe a month or so ago I saw a quote from Eddie Jordan saying that Hamilton has already expressed this concern to a select few. If I recall correctly the BBC ran the story and then it was pulled from their site. Marklar posted the link in this thread and then deleted his post for some reason. When I went looking for the article I could not find it on the BBC site or anywhere else for that matter.

Did I really deleted it?

Do you mean this one maybe?

'The two of them [Hamilton and Rosberg] just need to have a bit more respect for each other and I’m not sure of some of the comments Lewis is saying in that he no longer trusts Niki Lauda or Toto Wolff,' Jordan told Sportsmail.

'If that’s the case he is well advised to keep that to himself. 'Lewis doesn’t seem to have the feeling that he is getting a fair deal, particularly with Lauda.

'I’ve known Lauda a long time. Do I find him an honest man? Impeccably. Do I find him straight forward and to the point? Probably as much as anyone in Formula One.

'He tells it straight. I don't understand the breakdown. Lewis's biggest fan in my opinion is Niki Lauda.

'As an ex-team principal it’s not something I would want to read about, it’s something I would want to sort out in a straight forward way, and get Hamilton to air his fears to explain beyond any doubt what needs to change or if things do need to change.

http://www.dailymail...die-Jordan.html

Personally I suspected that Lauda felt like Hamilton isnt trusting him anymore and used Jordan (as often) to underline this in public, but maybe I'm wrong. IIRC the rumour that Hamilton isnt trusting them was a few weeks earlier reported by the Mail though.

Edit: here it is. Sort of

The Mail on Sunday understands that Hamilton has expressed his doubts about the independence of Mercedes F1 chairman Niki Lauda and team principal Toto Wolff, both of whom are German-speaking like his team-mate Nico Rosberg — and that he has described them in the most derogatory terms imaginable.

http://www.dailymail...berg-TENTH.html

Edited by Marklar, 19 October 2016 - 16:52.

[BuddyHolly]

Very interesting.  I'm sure many of us suspected that was the reason he left.