153 replies to this topic

[Owen]

EJ: "There is a deep-rooted problem. VET and Arrivabene don't get on and that's going to end in tears" 💬 #MexicoGP 🇲🇽 #C4F1
As an observer, Seb appears to have lost his mojo. A result of serious issues within the team or merely a blip in form?

[Niceman]

He's driving a car that isn't the best on the grid.  Also, Kimi's reputation or ability is seriously underestimated and people think the previous 2 years was a true indication of his talent.

 

It's absolutely staggering that these so called expert journalists or pundits are given airtime.  On-boards tell you everything you need to know.

[xtremeclock]

- The Technical director left the team mid season, he must know it will affect the 2017 project.

 

- The current car instead of progressing race after race...it goes slower race after race, it must be painful to look at RBR ("his team") and see how much they improved the chassis (and engine).

 

- The pit wall screwing both drivers race after race.

 

- The Italian press is a pain in the ass.

 

 

I'm pretty sure he already regrets signing for Ferrari.

[kimister]

EJ: "There is a deep-rooted problem. VET and Arrivabene don't get on and that's going to end in tears" #MexicoGP #C4F1
As an observer, Seb appears to have lost his mojo. A result of serious issues within the team or merely a blip in form?

 

That's enough for me 

[BillyWhizz]

 

It's absolutely staggering that these so called expert journalists or pundits are given airtime.  On-boards tell you everything you need to know.

 

EJ's rarely too far from the nub of a story bubbling in the paddock. Anyway it's clear there are problems in the Scuderia. Add to that the fact that they're not exactly known for their patience with under achieving team management.

Edited by BillyWhizz, 29 October 2016 - 22:39.

[WelshSwan]

I can understand why Seb would be upset with Arrivabene at the moment after his comments but I don't think there is a serious, serious issue between them. Perhaps Arrivabene felt a very public message was the best way of getting the best out of Seb, anger him to make him better to to speak. Yes I know that sounds ridiculous, especially when the car really isn't good enough to be up there competing with the Mercedes and Red Bull's but I think it was just a total misjudgement on Arrivabene's part and maybe in private he has apologised for that.

 

There's two things that have happened this year which have brought about all this talk about Seb and what is going on. Number one, he's been sloppy at times but number two, and this is what most journalists fail to mention, Kimi HAS improved considerably this year. The big improvement has been in qualifying where he has cut out the mistakes but most media people look at the results and go 'Oh Seb must be rubbish if he can't beat old Raikkonen!' without giving any credit to Kimi at all.

 

I think it is totally understandable why Seb is so frustrated, after last year he was probably very hopeful and thought he would have a car that could challenge the Mercedes every weekend but instead of going forwards, they seem to be going backwards. As a consequence of that I think we've seen Seb take some big risks at the starts which have led to accidents, two with his team mate, because he knows the car is not going to catch up with the Mercedes and Red Bulls if they go flying off into the distance so his best chance is to get past at the start then defend like hell to keep them behind. 

 

Personally, I think he will be back next year and he just needs this season over and done with asap so he can take some time off, regroup and start again next year.

[Nathan]

I agree along the lines of what Welsh said there.  Vettel has done a good job deflecting away from the team, not being too critical, and I wonder if he feels a bit betrayed by what Arrivabene has said about his contract renewal, his standing in the team etc..  I think those were comments he should have kept internal, if said at all  To me it was harmful to towards a driver that wants to create a family feeling.  This is all amped up by the Ferrari seemingly regressing, tactical blunders and not demonstrating a direction.

 

Last year we thought Alonso was crazy, this year he seems to be more vindicated.

Edited by Nathan, 29 October 2016 - 22:43.

[Owen]

EJ's rarely too far from the nub of a story bubbling in the paddock. Anyway it's clear there are problems in the Scuderia. Add to that the fact that they're not exactly known for their patience with under achieving team management.

EJ is one of Sebs biggest fans and I suspect an ally in the paddock - for him to say this seems ominous.

[sopa]

The problem is that in the whole Ferrari team there is currently kind of a feeling of "doom and gloom". It exists on a subconscious level, but it affects the whole team very emotionally. I mean everyone seems to have written them off. After the departure of James Allison everyone thinks Ferrari can't produce anything for 2017 rule changes. At the moment it looks like even Ferrari themselves believe that they are doomed in terms of any short-term prospects (not only late 2016, but also 2017). If you can't see the bright side, then it is very hard to work or give your best - it applies to all fields.

 

If the mood is that bad, it is time to sit down and make a plan. Okay, if 2017 is doomed, then get yourself collectively to work on a longer-term plan to turn 2018 into a good season. Or lower your standards. Remember, what Ferrari did after 2014. After a horrible season they really downplayed themselves by saying that even reaching Q3 would be an achievement in 2015 (a bit LOL, but okay ). People were mentally prepared to go through tough times. And when it turned out the car was much better than expected, then obviously everyone was pleasantly surprised, happy, and they had a good and positive season.

 

At the moment Ferrari has gone too carried away with the need of "immediate success", and it has hurt the team athmosphere as they see that expectations don't match realities. The excellent 2015, when they overdelivered compared to expectations, got them carried away.

Edited by sopa, 29 October 2016 - 22:55.

[Nathan]

Just watched some post-quali interviews with Vettel....pissy, grumpy, snippy, mad...all apply.

[TomNokoe]

EJ is full of crap.

Vettel can't perform the gymnastics in the car like other drivers, thus compounding the cars narrow setup window. They're probably blaming eachother.

[KarlCson]

I can understand why Seb would be upset with Arrivabene at the moment after his comments but I don't think there is a serious, serious issue between them. Perhaps Arrivabene felt a very public message was the best way of getting the best out of Seb, anger him to make him better to to speak. Yes I know that sounds ridiculous, especially when the car really isn't good enough to be up there competing with the Mercedes and Red Bull's but I think it was just a total misjudgement on Arrivabene's part and maybe in private he has apologised for that.

If Sebastian Vettel, a QUADRUPLE world champion -in one of the harshest, and psychologically most demanding sports environments which exists- was so touchy and easy to get out of balance, then his career in motor sports would guaranteed have stopped already at the Kid Kart stage.

[WelshSwan]

I agree along the lines of what Welsh said there.  Vettel has done a good job deflecting away from the team, not being too critical, and I wonder if he feels a bit betrayed by what Arrivabene has said about his contract renewal, his standing in the team etc..  I think those were comments he should have kept internal, if said at all  To me it was harmful to towards a driver that wants to create a family feeling.  This is all amped up by the Ferrari seemingly regressing, tactical blunders and not demonstrating a direction.

 

Last year we thought Alonso was crazy, this year he seems to be more vindicated.

 

Thanks! And I agree, Arrivabene should have kept those comments for a private conversation only. His comments have now thrust Ferrari into the spotlight for all the wrong reasons.

 

If Sebastian Vettel, a QUADRUPLE world champion -in one of the harshest, and psychologically most demanding sports environments which exists- was so touchy and easy to get out of balance, then his career in motor sports would guaranteed have stopped already at the Kid Kart stage.

 

Firstly, I am not for one minute saying Seb cannot handle the pressure let me get that straight. Arrivabene was the one in the wrong for saying such things in public, when Kimi was having a torrid time last year he never came out and criticised him so publicly just said, as far as I remember, that Kimi's future was in his own hands and the media needed to back off and let him get on with it and not be so disrespectful to a driver who is a former world champion. 

 

Now I know the difference is Seb is the number one driver and he has a higher wage bill than Kimi so it's only natural that more is expected of him but even he can't work miracles. Whether Arrivabene was trying to garner a reaction on the track from Seb with his comments or deflect from the fact that the car really isn't all that great I don't know but in my opinion he was in the wrong. Seb of course can handle it but the comments have brought a bigger spotlight on him and the team which they could have done without imo.

[discover23]

Vettel is simply not as good as Alonso .. Cannot really take this car to another level like Alonso did so many times. 

The team seeing how Kimi keeps outperforming him knowing he was annihilated by Alonso a few years ago and matched by Massa is probably a reason for the team to lose confidence in their lead driver. 

Edited by discover23, 30 October 2016 - 01:09.

[PilotPlant91]

Vettel is simply not as good as Alonso .. Cannot really take this car to another level like Alonso did so many times. 

The team seeing how Kimi keeps outperforming him knowing he was annihilated by Alonso a few years ago and matched by Massa is probably a reason for the team to lose confidence in their lead driver. 

 

I think the team understand the situation better than you that couldn't even evaluate the driver based on his driving but common stereotype.

 

And EJ has been spilling crap lately.

 

If alonso can bring this car to another level please bring him back. Because your car can beat Merc by just having him onboard 

Edited by PilotPlant91, 30 October 2016 - 01:11.

[PilotPlant91]

Its been a really bad season for ferrari from car to team operation and reliabilities.

 

Especially the strategy part...............

[johnhelmets]

Its been a really bad season for ferrari from car to team operation and reliabilities.

 

Especially the strategy part...............

I am agree, a really bad season 

[turssi]

What did Arrivabene say to the press?

[discover23]

What did Arrivabene say to the press?

Few weeks ago he said that Vettel needs to earn his salary. 

Edited by discover23, 30 October 2016 - 01:30.

[Nathan]

https://www.jamesall...ene-statements/

 

If Sebastian Vettel, a QUADRUPLE world champion -in one of the harshest, and psychologically most demanding sports environments which exists- was so touchy and easy to get out of balance, then his career in motor sports would guaranteed have stopped already at the Kid Kart stage.

Uuuuuh, Lewis Hamilton??  When Vettel first came to F1 I was a big fan, and then I seen the pouts.  I'm not saying he is soft, but at Red Bull he was prone to pout and whine when things didn't go his way. His time at Ferrari has shown he has grown up some in this regard, but his patience is clearly starting to start to wear. Spots are hard to change.

Edited by Nathan, 30 October 2016 - 01:34.

[oetzi]

Arrivabene was in extreme defensive mode today.

Waggons circled, fire not confirmeded.

[BillyWhizz]

I think the team understand the situation better than you that couldn't even evaluate the driver based on his driving but common stereotype.

 

And EJ has been spilling crap lately.

 

If alonso can bring this car to another level please bring him back. Because your car can beat Merc by just having him onboard 

 

What, like breaking the news that F1 was about to be sold to Liberty? That was lately.

 

Anyway, most of Vettel's misfortunes this year have been outside his control; mad strategies and incompetence effectively kyboshing his season with alarming regularity. Also, whether meant as tough love motivation, or just a reckless loose-lipped reply (is this why he turns down any unscheduled impromptu interviews?), Arrivabene's public quotes are unprofessional and wouldn't be helpful, considering Seb's pissed off with his situation and his immediate outlook already.

 

Things do not look good, cracks are appearing and Arrivabene is getting it in the neck from above and the media. We're seeing not only how Vettel is handling his particular situation, but also how his boss is handling the pressures, expectations and man management of his own, and he's not coping with them well.

 

As ever with dear old Ferrari it's a very Italian opera; there's drama, Machiavelli and passions in every scene!

Edited by BillyWhizz, 30 October 2016 - 02:55.

[PilotPlant91]

What, like breaking the news that F1 was about to be sold to Liberty? That was lately.

 

Anyway, most of Vettel's misfortunes this year have been outside his control; mad strategies and incompetence effectively kyboshing his season with alarming regularity. Also, whether meant as tough love motivation, or just a reckless loose-lipped reply (is this why he turns down any unscheduled impromptu interviews?), Arrivabene's public quotes are unprofessional and wouldn't be helpful, considering Seb's pissed off with his situation and his immediate outlook already.

 

Things do not look good, cracks are appearing and Arrivabene is getting it in the neck from above and the media. We're seeing not only how Vettel is handling his particular situation, but also how his boss is handling the pressures, expectations and man management of his own, and he's not coping with them well.

 

As ever with dear old Ferrari it's a very Italian opera; there's drama, Machiavelli and passions in every scene!

 

like the car looks better on slow corner than fast corner   

 

Merc sabotage Rosberg by detune his engine

 

Bernie getting replaced?? (nvr happen)

 

list go on....

[RPM40]

Since Vettel's move from 'dominant car with somewhat weak team mate (2010-2013)' he hasn't exactly looked particularly impressive. 

 

Now Kimi has worked out how to drive at a decent level again Vettel is really against it fighting for p5. The worst thing for him is he knows each season this continues is former reputation is getting continually eroded. 

 

The problem to me is Vettel thinks he can 'Fix' the team, what exactly is his resume for  a team builder?

Edited by RPM40, 30 October 2016 - 06:07.

[mangeliiito]

I just love the fact that a lot of people here start screaming DOOM, GLOM, DARKNESS as soon as someone has a bad season. They thought the car would be great this year. Well it's faster but has a much narrower setup window. And Pirelli tyres with even narrower window. They tried a couple of updates who seemed to make the car almost worse. Trouble with realibility and terrible, terrible strategies wasting podium (or more) chances. It all become a bad circle. Of course I would be a bit frustrated.
The errors at the start have been nad, as he hasn't learned from it. But other than that the driving has been far from bad. I really don't think he is missing the backstabbers at Red Bull. Let's see next year. Hope both team and drivers can start the season better next year.

[HoldenRT]

Culture of fail = everyone has to cover their own ass.

 

Team chemistry = kaput.

[Augurk]

Vettel is moving towards the point he realizes he is no Schumacher. 

 

//edit: actually, Ferrari is moving towards that same point. 

Edited by Augurk, 30 October 2016 - 08:12.

[SophieB]

I agree along the lines of what Welsh said there.  Vettel has done a good job deflecting away from the team, not being too critical, and I wonder if he feels a bit betrayed by what Arrivabene has said about his contract renewal, his standing in the team etc..  I think those were comments he should have kept internal, if said at all  To me it was harmful to towards a driver that wants to create a family feeling.  This is all amped up by the Ferrari seemingly regressing, tactical blunders and not demonstrating a direction.
 
Last year we thought Alonso was crazy, this year he seems to be more vindicated.

I never thought Alonso was crazy and I'm betting a lot of other people here didn't either. This pattern has suggested itself a lot longer than Vettel and Alonso.

[sopa]

Vettel is simply not as good as Alonso .. Cannot really take this car to another level like Alonso did so many times. 

The team seeing how Kimi keeps outperforming him knowing he was annihilated by Alonso a few years ago and matched by Massa is probably a reason for the team to lose confidence in their lead driver. 

 

I'd say in 2015 Vettel was as good as Alonso. 

 

While Vettel struggling in a bad car doesn't look pretty, in the end you need to deliver, when you have the opportunity. Whether you finish 4th, 5th or 6th in an average car - doesn't matter in historical context. But if you have a championship on the line, you must have the ability to deliver. And Vettel has that ability - like other top drivers. That's what matters for Ferrari too.

[Razoola]

When you look at how heads have rolled in Ferrari in recent times it seems to me if your not preforming your fired. Now I'm not saying that Vettel is not preforming on the driving side but if he is meddling in other areas of the team (as some commentators has implied in recent times) he is putting people into a position to be fired if those areas do not preform. I do personally feel this is the problem because its affecting his relationship with the team and the engineers. When you think about it, he is a little more safe than the engineers when it comes to how easy he could be fired given the contract he has compared to the engineers around him.

 

This is why Kimi is a good fit for the team right now. He seems to keep out of other peoples business, as long as he preforms equal to or above the level Ferrari expect of him he is safe.

 

Vettal Finds himself in the same position as Alonso I feel in relation to team interfearance. I would not rule out Vettel leaving and Kimi doing another year at Ferrari in 2018 if it continues as it is now..

Edited by Razoola, 30 October 2016 - 08:24.

[Marklar]

It's amazing how quickly things are changing in F1. Just last year Vettel was everybodys darling, for many the best driver in F1 and vast improvement to Alonso in terms of the whole package (mentally, etc.). This year it's completely the other way around.

Just before last year Ferrari seemed to be doomed, then they pulled their best season in years together. Before this season all was fine and the championship a not unrealistic target. Now we are back to doom.

How will 2017 be? Who knows? Personally I'm not sharing the opinion that Vettels outbursts are indicating frustration, he always had them, even if he was winning. His 1st lap incidents and him overdriving often the car? That's more likely. Clearly feels the pressure and maybe underestimated the whole enviroment there.

[sopa]

It's amazing how quickly things are changing in F1. Just last year Vettel was everybodys darling, for many the best driver in F1 and vast improvement to Alonso in terms of the whole package (mentally, etc.). This year it's completely the other way around.

 

Vettel is one of the most confusing drivers for people to rate. Which means he is easily subject to yo-yoing in ratings. People either omit the good or bad seasons from his curriculum and say that "he is exactly that good/bad". He has both sides. 

 

The difference to, say, Alonso lies in character. Alonso has the ability to put all the negative things into anger and drive the car in anger, even if it means driving for scraps. Vettel gets more sulky and it affects his performance. They are both emotional characters, but the difference is that in Alonso's case it doesn't affect his on-track performance. However, when there is an opportunity to fight for the championship and everything works well in the team, they are about equally good.

[kimister]

It's amazing how quickly things are changing in F1. Just last year Vettel was everybodys darling, for many the best driver in F1 and vast improvement to Alonso in terms of the whole package (mentally, etc.). This year it's completely the other way around.

Just before last year Ferrari seemed to be doomed, then they pulled their best season in years together. Before this season all was fine and the championship a not unrealistic target. Now we are back to doom.

How will 2017 be? Who knows? Personally I'm not sharing the opinion that Vettels outbursts are indicating frustration, he always had them, even if he was winning. His 1st lap incidents and him overdriving often the car? That's more likely. Clearly feels the pressure and maybe underestimated the whole enviroment there.

 

 

It always amuse me when people mention about "overdriving" lol There is a limit to cars' capacity and you cannot simply climb over it no matter how good you are. That's said, You do mistakes trying to find that limit. The difference betw him and Kimi this year is that Kimi is aware of the limit and just deal with it and mostly get the max out of the car, but seb struggled to find the limit and makes mistakes on the edge. Seb's fault is to let his frustration affect his driving! and it shouldn't be an excuse to me.

Edited by kimister, 30 October 2016 - 08:49.

[Outsider]

 

If alonso can bring this car to another level please bring him back. Because your car can beat Merc by just having him onboard 

they can't bring Alonso back - he left on his own wanting to go (not fired like Kimi). probably doesn't want to come back either

[SophieB]

It always amuse me when people mention about "overdriving" lol There is a limit to cars' capacity and you cannot simply climb over it no matter how good you are. That's said, You do mistakes trying to find that limit. The difference betw him and Kimi this year is that Kimi is aware of the limit and just deal with it and mostly get the max out of the car, but seb struggled to find the limit and makes mistakes on the edge. Seb's mistake is tot let his frustration affect his driving!

Overdriving doesn't mean someone is getting more out of the car than is possible, it means they are attempting this but making mistakes out of frustration as a result. It is never meant as a compliment.

[kimister]

they can't bring Alonso back - he left on his own wanting to go (not fired like Kimi). probably doesn't want to come back either

 

Well, it was more complexed...than just leaving on is own terms.

 

http://www.motorspor...onso-real-story

[kimister]

Overdriving doesn't mean someone is getting more out of the car than is possible, it means they are attempting this but making mistakes out of frustration as a result. It is never meant as a compliment.

 

I know. It's just always sound to me that as if people are more inclined to use the term in a wrong context..maybe as you said as a compliment as a positive meaning, which is not right. 

[Radion]

Vettel is simply not as good as Alonso .. Cannot really take this car to another level like Alonso did so many times.
The team seeing how Kimi keeps outperforming him knowing he was annihilated by Alonso a few years ago and matched by Massa is probably a reason for the team to lose confidence in their lead driver.

I always think that these kind of comparisons are kind of hard to make.
This is like me saying if you were to put both Montoya and Räikkönen in an IndyCar then Räikkönen would come out on top because he beat Montoya in 05 and 06. It doesn't work like that.

OT: I'm sure that if one of the two was made to leave it would be Maurizio. Marchioni (sry if not spelled right) would not want lose his star driver. But more importantly that star driver should start acting like one and bring the performance that is to be expected from him. They all look like headless chicken right now.

Good lord that auto correct...

Edited by Radion, 30 October 2016 - 09:11.

[ConsiderAndGo]

He's miserable, and who can blame him.

Problem is, where does he go? McLaren in 2018?

[Domi]

Alonso crushed Raikkonen in Ferrari and now Raikkonen is crushing Vettel reputation. That's what is going on

[thez]

I'd say in 2015 Vettel was as good as Alonso.

.

I will say it was better.

Look Vettel is just an emoitional person very similar in personality to Lewis. I guess thats why they have always got along because they are silimlar. When everything is fine they smile and joke. When not they cant hide it and it and their frustration shows in their driving less so Lewis but he was there in 2011.

Vettel is having year like Lewis did in 2011. He came into this season with high hopes of closing the gap and atleast giving Merc a run for the wdc. All that changed no thanks to unreliabilty, a surging RB, and a rejuvenated team mate.

Make no mistake he is going to be back at the top next year. Everyone has bad years where they loses it mentally. Alonso 07, Lewis 11 now Vettel 16. They all came back stronger.

[GoldenColt]

I will say it was better.
 

 

Hm. I don't remember Fernando ever having the second best car at Ferrari with a clear gap to the rest of the grid. In 2010 McLaren were close, in 2011 McLaren were ahead over the course of the season, same for 2012 and in 2013 one could argue that Lotus, Ferrari and Mercedes were all on similar pace.

 

Vettel had a car that was considerably off the Mercedes' pace in 2015, but also miles off the rest of the grid. He finished a clear 3rd and was best of the rest for most of the races. A solid season, but nothing outstanding. Definitely no Alonso 2012-performance.

Edited by GoldenColt, 30 October 2016 - 09:42.

[sennafan24]

I will say it was better.

No it wasn't 

 

From BBC:

 

 

In that first season, his team-mate was Spaniard Fernando Alonso, who beat him in qualifying 16 times in 19 races, was an average of 0.529 seconds a lap quicker and scored nearly three times as many points. If you take only the races in which a comparison in qualifying was fair (ie, eliminating any at which either had a problem), it was 12-1 to Alonso at an average of 0.548secs.

Last year, Sebastian Vettel joined the team. There were 12 races at which a direct comparison was fair and the German was quicker 10 times, at an average of 0.348secs. Overall, the gap was 0.463secs.

 

Sure, that's just qualifying, but Vettel didn't do any better than Alonso in the races. Alonso went 16-3 against Kimi - with 2 of them coming as a result of mechanical issues when Alonso was ahead. Whereas Vettel went 14-4-1 against Kimi. The draw being Mexico where both retired due to errors. Vettel also had issues in two of the qualifying sessions where Kimi beat him (Canada and Abu Dhabi)

 

In relative terms, there's nothing to say that Vettel's 2015 campaign was more impressive. Even if you want to argue that the car suited Kimi more in 2015 or whatever, it's still not concrete evidence. 

Edited by sennafan24, 30 October 2016 - 09:44.

[Ice1Fan]

The team seeing how Kimi keeps outperforming him knowing he was annihilated by Alonso a few years ago and matched by Massa is probably a reason for the team to lose confidence in their lead driver.

Annihilated Kimi? Don't think so.
Alonso seems annihilated himself nowadays and his way of punishing Ferrari for kicking him out his by blocking both Kimi and Seb in the races and even in practices. 😂

[Vesuvius]

There is nothing going on, Vettel is still driving well ( except Silverstone and some first lap incidents).His relationship with the team and Arrivabane is good.

Of course nobody at Ferrari is happy with their performances this season, if they would then they are in a wrong place.

[Nonesuch]

Since Vettel's move from 'dominant car with somewhat weak team mate (2010-2013)' he hasn't exactly looked particularly impressive.

 

Weak Webber was in the WDC-battle at the final race of 2010.

 

He also wasn't generally seen that way before being teamed up with Vettel - and it's only normal that champions are expected to perform better than their teammates (with, apparently, some exceptions).

 

I'm also not sure why some are so surprised about Räikkönen doing a good job against Vettel. He was very impressive on his return to F1 with fake-Lotus, which no doubt played a decisive role in Ferrari approaching him again. His form in 2014 was not normal, not expected, and certainly not satisfactory to anyone involved. Yet somehow some people have divined that Räikkönen's 2014 season actually revealed his One True Form. To be sure, Räikkönen has his limitations - perhaps more so than other world champions - but he is anything but a slouch.

 

Anyway, if Vettel is a bit frustrated it's easy to see why. He had a very good first half of the season but since then it's been quite a bit tougher for him. The team has also made a couple of really dumb mistakes, they missed a few opportunities to score better results, win(s) included, and development has been less than impressive. If you've won four titles and about 50 races then fighting for 4th with an 18-year-old probably doesn't excite one all that much.

[Requiem84]

Ferrari is becoming the Ducati of F1: the team everyone joins with high hopes, but in the end your career is killed, or severly hurt (Melandri, Hayden, Crutchlow and ... Rossi obviously).

[RPM40]

It always amuse me when people mention about "overdriving" lol There is a limit to cars' capacity and you cannot simply climb over it no matter how good you are. That's said, You do mistakes trying to find that limit. The difference betw him and Kimi this year is that Kimi is aware of the limit and just deal with it and mostly get the max out of the car, but seb struggled to find the limit and makes mistakes on the edge. Seb's fault is to let his frustration affect his driving! and it shouldn't be an excuse to me.

 

Thats just not true. You can easily over drive a car. The car has the limit, and thats as 'fast' as it can go, but you can push past that limit and start going slower and slower as you understeer, oversteer, lock brakes, run wide etc.

[statman]

Alonso crushed Raikkonen in Ferrari and now Raikkonen is crushing Vettel reputation. That's what is going on

This was said a while ago and I didn't really think about it, but then it came into our minds again that Vettel was also getting spanked by Ric. during their time.

 

I don't know about Vettel, the crashes/incidents this season are ridiculous for a driver his calibre (4x wdc), the car is obviously not great but Rai is showing up more and more whereas Vettel is sort of disappearing.

[CSF]

This was said a while ago and I didn't really think about it, but then it came into our minds again that Vettel was also getting spanked by Ric. during their time.

 

I don't know about Vettel, the crashes/incidents this season are ridiculous for a driver his calibre (4x wdc), the car is obviously not great but Rai is showing up more and more whereas Vettel is sort of disappearing.

 

 

I must have missed Kimi twice looking like beating Mercedes on merit before questionable strategy calls.