226 replies to this topic

[Clatter]

What I wondered a bit about this discussion: What about Massa accusing the stewards to openly favour Alonso? Or Hulkenberg for accusing the stewards to bend the rules in Hamilton's favour?

If we draw the football analogy you are also getting punished in some cases for specifically accusing the referee to favour someone openly. This is disrespectful and insulting too in that sense. And worse than some things which could be now potentially punished in the future.

It isn't as easy as it seems in my opinion. We have to be careful to not go too far. Vettel's team radio was not on, but it would be dangerous if we are clamping down everything from now on.

It's another set of rules that hsve been inconsistently applied. I suspect the only reason anything is being done now is because it was quite a big vent that was broadcast and the FIA would look weak if they had totally ignored it. But the wording of the letter just shows how they are not really serious when there have been numerous occurrences of bad language, including this weekend alone, that have been ignored.

[senna da silva]

I also don't like Charlie Whiting. So I vote "No"

 

And why don't you like Charlie? Do you know him personally?

[Gareth]

Please stick to discussion of Vettel's radio coms.  The incident between Vettel and Ricciardo, and the various T1 fun and games, all have their own threads.

 

Thanks.

[Nonesuch]

 We have to be careful to not go too far.

 

What we have now is classic FIA, and exactly what these people want.

 

They can now choose to clamp down on drivers whenever they want - but they've given themselves the room not to do so as well.

 

The result is unpredictability, uncertainty, and the potential of serious consequences.

 

It's the favourite combination of people who shouldn't be anywhere near power - never mind for 20 years.

[7MGTEsup]

And why don't you like Charlie? Do you know him personally?

 

I believe it is possible to not like someone professionally without knowing the ins and outs of their entire personality.

 

So this "do you know them personally" argument doesn't hold much water. He is basically saying he doesn't like Charlie Whiting (the race director) not Charlie Whiting the human being.

[as65p]

Pfft. It's pretty much in the job description of race director to be disliked and sweared on, mostly from the grandstands and TV, but apparently also from within the cars nowadays. The most perfect human mankind ever bred could do it and would be hated all the same. It's almost as bad as being a tyre supplier in F1.

 

And it's easy to see why. Because we all could do a better job at it, every single one of us, couldn't we?

[SophieB]

Pfft. It's pretty much in the job description of race director to be disliked and sweared on, mostly from the grandstands and TV, but apparently also from within the cars nowadays. The most perfect human mankind ever bred could do it and would be hated all the same. It's almost as bad as being a tyre supplier in F1.

 

And it's easy to see why. Because we all could do a better job at it, every single one of us, couldn't we?

 

I never accept this one. I know jackshit about plumbing but if a plumber I've hired floods the kitchen, I still feel qualified to tell them he's doing a piss poor job.

[AustinF1]

And why don't you like Charlie? Do you know him personally?

Yeah I don't agree with everything Charlie does, by any stretch, but I think he gets a very raw deal here and elsewhere. He's stuck between the teams and FOM and the drivers, and the fans. No matter what he does, he's probably pissing off 2/3 of those people. I doubt many here would want his job, tbh.

[as65p]

I never accept this one. I know jackshit about plumbing but if a plumber I've hired floods the kitchen, I still feel qualified to tell them he's doing a piss poor job.

 

Well that's part of the problem. Everyone with a brain but no education or experience will acknowledge he can't do it, same with most other common crafts. But stuff like judging right or wrong in a sporting competition you'll hardly find anyone who doesn't feel qualified to judge.

[Rich]

Yeah I don't agree with everything Charlie does, by any stretch, but I think he gets a very raw deal here and elsewhere. He's stuck between the teams and FOM and the drivers, and the fans. No matter what he does, he's probably pissing off 2/3 of those people. I doubt many here would want his job, tbh.

 

That's very true. I once spoke to the head of the Air Quality directorate for govt. He told me that he had recently attended a public meeting to communicate the new air quality standards to all stakeholders. The civil society delegation immediately walked out, claiming that the standards were too lenient. Then the industry delegation walked out, claiming the standards were too stringent. He laughed and told me that everybody being annoyed is confirmation that his department got the balance about right. He said he only worries when one side is happy and the other side fuming. Because then he's probably got it wrong. I would imagine that Charlie's job is fairly similar.

[Rich]

Well that's part of the problem. Everyone with a brain but no education or experience will acknowledge he can't do it, same with most other common crafts. But stuff like judging right or wrong in a sporting competition you'll hardly find anyone who doesn't feel qualified to judge.

 

Overheard at the Job Centre:

 

What positions do you have open?

Well, here's a vacancy for a dentist.

What?! I couldn't even do a filling let alone root canal work. That won't do at all.

OK, what about a fitter & turner?

Mucking about on a lathe? Ooer, that sounds a bit daunting.

Ah, what about a train driver?

I'm sorry, I wouldn't know one end of a locomotive from t'other.

Well, I'm afraid the only other vacancies are for Prime Minister, Chairman of the FA, national rugby coach or convenor of selectors for the national cricket team.

Now why didn't you say so earlier? I can do ALL of those!

[senna da silva]

I believe it is possible to not like someone professionally without knowing the ins and outs of their entire personality.

 

So this "do you know them personally" argument doesn't hold much water. He is basically saying he doesn't like Charlie Whiting (the race director) not Charlie Whiting the human being.

 

Still not a just reason to vote no.

[Nonesuch]

It's pretty much in the job description of race director to be disliked and sweared on, mostly from the grandstands and TV, but apparently also from within the cars nowadays.

 

The FIA race director isn't disliked because he sometimes hands out penalties to drivers who fans perceive as having done nothing wrong.

 

This is the man who is so convinced that he is Mr. F1 Rules that he threatened to disqualify an entire team in the middle of a championship battle right before the start of a race because said team didn't comply with a "rule" he had cooked up just minutes before. Better yet, he figured he should communicate this grand new idea of his to all teams by e-mail.

 

And let's not even get started about that tragic day in October 2014.

[JavierDeVivre]

The FIA race director isn't disliked because he sometimes hands out penalties to drivers who fans perceive as having done nothing wrong.

 

This is the man who is so convinced that he is Mr. F1 Rules that he threatened to disqualify an entire team in the middle of a championship battle right before the start of a race because said team didn't comply with a "rule" he had cooked up just minutes before. Better yet, he figured he should communicate this grand new idea of his to all teams by e-mail.

 

And let's not even get started about that tragic day in October 2014.

That's unnecessary, he was not responsible. Charlie is a lot of things, but ultimately the drivers are the ones that control the peddles, if we cannot trust them, who can we trust. We can only be thankful that day none of the volunteer marshals were killed because of the actions of those that rely on their services in order to do what they love and get apid large amounts of money to do.

[7MGTEsup]

Still not a just reason to vote no.

 

Only in your opinion

[senna da silva]

Only in your opinion

 

No, that's not how justice works. This is exactly why we have populists on the rise because people can't separate their feelings from what is right and wrong.

[PlatenGlass]

Yeah I don't agree with everything Charlie does, by any stretch, but I think he gets a very raw deal here and elsewhere. He's stuck between the teams and FOM and the drivers, and the fans. No matter what he does, he's probably pissing off 2/3 of those people. I doubt many here would want his job, tbh.

I'd happily take his job. And I'm sure many others would too.

By the way, he's not there because he's somehow more qualified than anyone else. He's there because he was at Brabham with Bernie Ecclestone.

[Rich]

I'd happily take his job. And I'm sure many others would too.

 

 

I'd happily take Vettel's job too. In my job, I can't tell officials in my industry to eff off, I'd get fired and lose 100% of my income. Seb does it and only gets a stern letter, losing 0% of his income. Life must be hell for the lad. It's a crime against humanity, I tells ya.

[Marklar]

This was 3 years ago in GP2

 

https://twitter.com/...9073664?lang=en

[Heisenberg]

No need for a fine. He apologized. Let's move on! F1 fans can have such contradictory opinions: if the drivers don't swear, they are robots. If they lose their cool sometimes, they are idiots. How about get over it instead?

 

I wonder if we had a similar incident like the one Senna & Schumacher had back in the early nineties and Vettel was in Senna 's place, would the so called "fans" and the FIA asked for Vettel to be shot?? Cause by today 's standards, it sounds like it.

 

Edit: What's even more funny is that now people even started to use kids as an excuse ("OH! Think about all the kids hearing the swearing!""). I mean are you serious? 

Edited by Heisenberg, 02 November 2016 - 19:01.

[LuckyStrike1]

I never accept this one. I know jackshit about plumbing but if a plumber I've hired floods the kitchen, I still feel qualified to tell them he's doing a piss poor job.

 

Like Charlie Whiting and race marshalling 

[LuckyStrike1]

This was 3 years ago in GP2

 

https://twitter.com/...9073664?lang=en

 

 

I am more worried you looked that up ... 

[Marklar]

I am more worried you looked that up ... 

Retweeted into my timeline. Someone else looked it up 

[McLobby]

I don't think Fom is even partially responsible, drivers know that their communications during action on track are been broadcast-ed...

 

I also don't think it deserved a penalty,since it's not related with the racing itself.

 

It's just a disgrace to the sport and I think the embarrassment of Vettel's awful and shameful  public outburst is enough of a punishment,

since millions of people heard his whining.... it's really embarrassing for a champion to act like that...

[pdac]

That's unnecessary, he was not responsible. Charlie is a lot of things, but ultimately the drivers are the ones that control the peddles, if we cannot trust them, who can we trust. We can only be thankful that day none of the volunteer marshals were killed because of the actions of those that rely on their services in order to do what they love and get apid large amounts of money to do.

 

He said not to get started - but as you have, NO it isn't and to a great extent (in my opinion, at least) YES he was.

[Frank Tuesday]

I look forward to seeing what creative insults can be smuggled into radio messages without the authorities noticing

"Hey, Charlie. 132. 132." (or use 645 in place of 132. It means the same thing.

Math nerds will get it.

[quaint]

it's really embarrassing for a champion to act like that...

 

In your opinion. I think frustration was warranted, and even more so if he could even remotely guess how lenient they were going to be on the rule breach committed by VES.