98 replies to this topic

[kimister]

We as spectators think there is a peak for every drivers and lose their best over time. But Alonso believes speed will not be lost; on the contrary, one can only get better and better. I see his point of that this is a sport heavily limited with the capacity of the car rather than the ability of the drivers' to some extent, however I assume the decremental physical strength may hinder their performances at older ages. I remember reading some researches conducted on racing drivers showing their reflexes, reaction times, are superior to normal drivers and their health conditions are at uber-human level almost. Having said that,for instance, there are other studies indicating the older the people get, the more they suffer from poor concentration. And we know F1 drivers are among the best-prepared athletes in the world and their focus should be at extreme levels and should stay alert for an extended period of time during the races. This is just one aspect of the occasion of course.

 

Their fitness works should put the effects of the aging back a bit, but how long? or their performances drop just because they lose their interest in the sport ? 

 

What do you think? Is physical or mental ability of drivers more decisive on their performances on the track and to sustain that at highest level as well?

 

.......

 

Fernando Alonso:

 

“I don’t see it like other sports that maybe the physical situation is so relevant,”

 

“Here it is just about the machine, about the car, so I don’t think there is a peak and then you go down. Here is just a normal progression line and you get better every time.

 

“If you stop one day I don’t think it’s because you’re slower, it’s because you’re tired. Tired of travelling, of media, when you expose your life for 20 years - you’ve been in the newspaper for 20 years, you’ve been on television for 20 years - maybe you want to stop that because real life is on the other side of that box.

 

“So you stop because of that, not because you are four tenths, three tenths or half a second slower than 20 years ago.”

 

“We saw with Michael [Schumacher] he was 37 when he first retired and he was winning, he was fighting for the world championship until the last race with me in 2006 and decided to retire. It’s because you start at 19 or 20 in Formula One and at 37 then 17 years of your life are totally dedicated to the sport.

 

“There’s not a single day when you don’t do breakfast thinking about what you’re eating. There’s not a single day when you do something not thinking that you don’t want to be hurt because the race is next weekend. So it’s all your life dedicated to the sport.”

 

http://en.f1i.com/ne...age-alonso.html

Edited by kimister, 07 November 2016 - 17:19.

[Marklar]

“If you stop one day I don’t think it’s because you’re slower, it’s because you’re tired. Tired of travelling, of media, when you expose your life for 20 years - you’ve been in the newspaper for 20 years, you’ve been on television for 20 years - maybe you want to stop that because real life is on the other side of that box.

This is not contradicting though. If someone is tired of something, he loses motivation and is becoming slower. This can happen when you are 38, but also when you are 28 or never, though it is more likely to happen when you are older.

 

Furthermore you are also losing at some point also reflexes which are very important in racing, maybe even eagerness. But on the other hand you are gaining experience and routine.

[RECKLESS]

A guy in his 20's will have more energy and has faster reactions than a guy almost 40.

Fernando is defensive that's all. Talking things down to lift himself up.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

I think Fernando Alonso says that the age is not important anymore because current cars are just too easy to drive.

 

Full article down below

 

http://en.f1i.com/ma...ust-heroes.html

Edited by RYARLE, 07 November 2016 - 18:08.

[Clatter]

I think Fernando Alonso says that the age is not important anymore because current cars are just too easy to drive.

Full article down below

http://en.f1i.com/ma...ust-heroes.html

it wasn't any different when cars were harder to drive either.

Edited by Clatter, 07 November 2016 - 18:13.

[AustinF1]

A guy in his 20's will have more energy and has faster reactions than a guy almost 40.

Fernando is defensive that's all. Talking things down to lift himself up.

Did you actually read the article?

 

That's not at all how he came off. Great interview.

[Kev00]

A guy in his 20's will have more energy and has faster reactions than a guy almost 40.

Fernando is defensive that's all. Talking things down to lift himself up.

I think if you did tests of strength, power, stamina, reactions etc between f1 drivers I'm sure Alonso and Button would be amongst the best.

In terms of age, I think 40 year athlete who has worked and trained in f1 for 10+ years is probably in better physical shape than these teenagers we see coming into f1.

[Joseki]

I don't think he showed any sign of decline and he's 35, Kimi is doing super fine against Seb and he's 37(but I think he peaked in 2003-2005 and then stayed on a pretty much flat performance level). Schumy fighted as hard as ever in 2006. I think he's right.

[AustinF1]

Judging by what we've seen of Alonso on track lately, I'd say his reactions are as sharp as any on the grid.

[Nathan]

The reduction in reaction time with age isn't too significant, especially if the older person maintains a training program.  The university of Texas once did a good study on the matter comparing 25 and 55 year olds.  I also think the strength requirement for F1 is often overstated.  I think age only comes into account when you start reaching levels of exhaustion..  It has to be remembered these older drivers are still constantly active in these areas, so the degeneration is slow because the neuro connectors that break down are still well used.

[thez]

Shows how great Rosberg was destroying Schumacher 3 years in a row. 

[AustinF1]

The reduction in reaction time with age isn't too significant, especially if the older person maintains a training program.  The university of Texas once did a good study on the matter comparing 25 and 55 year olds.  I also think the strength requirement for F1 is often overstated.  I think age only comes into account when you start reaching levels of exhaustion..  It has to be remembered these older drivers are still constantly active in these areas, so the degeneration is slow because the neuro connectors that break down are still well used.

HookEm!

[Lights]

He basically explains very well why guys like Schumacher and Button 'retire' at the age of 36/37.

[BRG]

Once U R out of yur teens, U is finished.  Every fule noes that.

[Joseki]

Shows how great Rosberg was destroying Schumacher 3 years in a row. 

 

More than age I think it was the 3 year stop that damaged Schumy.

[kimister]

I think Fernando Alonso says that the age is not important anymore because current cars are just too easy to drive.

 

Full article down below

 

http://en.f1i.com/ma...ust-heroes.html

 

Thank you. I wasn't aware of the full article. It was a great piece 

[KarlCson]

I think it´s a mental thing mainly. With age and experience -unfortunately/fortunately- comes a different mindset, you become less instinctive and more aware of the causes and effects. Those brief moments of consideration soon adds time to the lap.

[messy]

I think he's right. It's a mental thing. Look at Button. You come into F1 still a kid, you travel the world, you do media, you debrief, you speak to the press, you go to sponsor functions, you pose for photos, you live in hotel rooms, then you get into the car and risk your life at 200mph. Then you fly to the next race and do it all over again.

I think it takes a certain type of personality not to eventually lose that single-mindedness. Maybe you have kids or get married, and start yearning for a bit more time with them at home. I reckon that's where it starts. At some stage, especially when you've started 200 GPs, the enthusiasm, commitment and single-mindedness starts to erode. And that's where the speed is lost, nothing physical.

I look at Kris Meeke in the WRC as an example. He's 37 - the age where most top level drivers in any discipline really are probably starting to consider calling it a day. But he's worked for it the hard way, and despite his age he's just starting out. This is his what, third season? And he drives like a 23 year old, approaches the sport like a 23 year old. The fact he's 37 doesn't matter. Damon Hill is another one.

Edited by messy, 07 November 2016 - 20:57.

[Gorma]

Every part in our bodies has an expiry date. It might be sooner or later but it has it. Stressing a certain part to the maximum for 15-20 years takes a toll. It might be the muscles, the joints, the tendons or the nervous system that gives in, but something is sure to give in at some point. This happens to every top level athlete in every sport. F1 is no different. You rarely see athletes retiring after they've won the olympic gold or the same people making world records every year, year after year. There is a peak in every sport. 200 .

[thefinalapex]

Shows how great Rosberg was destroying Schumacher 3 years in a row. 

 

Well destroyed him in 2010. Pace wise in 2011 in the races they where equal with michael maybe having a slight edge. In 2012 MSC was better in Q and racing. His laps at Monaco,silverstone, hockenheim and specialy Austin where michael at his very best. Canada could have been a good one aswell as he was on fire the whole weekend until they miscalculated the time so he couldn't set a good time in Q3. He had the quickest first sector when he had to abort the lap.  Im still amazed that he put that merc in 5th position at austin. Shame when the car was actualy competitive he didn't have the reliability. 

Edited by thefinalapex, 07 November 2016 - 21:30.

[garoidb]

When did the trend for racing drivers to retire in their mid thirties take hold, and why? I am thinking of Jackie Stewart in 1973, but he retired for safety reasons. I don't think it was normal to retire so young at that time.  Perhaps Alain Prost, Nelson Piquet and Nigel Mansell were the first top drivers who could be said to have had a normal career span, with the real possibility of injury or death not a major consideration in their decision to retire from F1. They were 38, 39 and 41 respectively.  

 

Hunt and Scheckter retired permanently in 1979/80 citing safety while Andretti and Fittipaldi both drove in Indycars for a long time (into their 40s and 50s). Lauda came back to F1, retiring finally at 36. Alan Jones retired finally as he approached 40. Keke Rosberg was coming up to 38. Safety would have been more of a consideration for drivers in that era than even a few years later. 

Edited by garoidb, 07 November 2016 - 21:45.

[as65p]

A guy in his 20's will have more energy and has faster reactions than a guy almost 40.

Fernando is defensive that's all. Talking things down to lift himself up.

 

Racing is not about especially fast reactions, never was.

[as65p]

Judging by what we've seen of Alonso on track lately, I'd say his reactions are as sharp as any on the grid.

 

And I think much of what people see as "fast reaction" is really anticipation anyway.

[Slowersofterdumber]

Racing is not about especially fast reactions, never was.

 

Oh yes it is. If your series rewards being on edge all the time anyway.

[chr1s]

Remember Mario Andrettis' one off appearance for Ferrari in the 1982 Italian Grand Prix? Pole position at the age of 42!

 

Even more impressive were Carlos Reutemanns "demonstration" laps on the Thursday prior to the 1994 Argentine Grand Prix. In a current Formula one Ferrari with un-familiar  semi-automatic transmission the 52 year old former Ferrari driver set a time that not only would have put him 11th on the grid for the race but was also faster than both Berger and Alesi!

[Growing]

Racing is not about especially fast reactions, never was.

Always was and will be. Drivers like Hamilton feel the car balance in a turn and move steering and feet on pedals in microseconds to be fast in a lap.

Is hard to a driver realizes that is being 3 tenths slower than he could be some years ago.

Schumacher was greatest of all l, so despite of be older, he had so much talent that could be competitive in his forties.

Edited by Growing, 07 November 2016 - 22:53.

[as65p]

Oh yes it is. If your series rewards being on edge all the time anyway.

 

No it's not. If you need to re-act, the optimum moment in time to position the car in the best possible way has already past.

[as65p]

Always was and will be. Drivers like Hamilton feel the car balance in a turn and move steering and feet on pedals in microseconds to be fast in a lap.

Is hard to a driver realizes that is being 3 tenths slower than he could be some years ago.

Schumacher was greatest of all l, so in despite of be older he had so much talent that could be competitive in his forties.

Humans don't react in microseconds, nobody, Something over two tenths reaction time is the best humans can do . What the best drivers are good at is anticipating car behaviour under a variety of circumstances.

[Juan Kerr]

Shows how great Rosberg was destroying Schumacher 3 years in a row. 

Well that's an interesting one because Schumacher had nothing to prove and in the end of their partnership was looking the faster of the two. Michael's physical state was immense still at 43.

[RPM40]

I sort of agree.

 

I really do think F1 has imposed a very arbitrary age limit on drivers who could continue on into their 40s if they want to. 

[jwill189]

Who know for sure when drivers begin to lose their reflexes?  Alonso shows his are still godlike.

 

Edited by jwill189, 08 November 2016 - 00:31.

[Kev00]

Who know for sure when drivers begin to lose their reflexes? Alonso shows his are still godlike.

https://www.youtube....h?v=DZqe_bJuyxA

That's crazy. Is that even possible to react to something that quick, especially with your fingers. I reckon he gambled, I do it all the time on project cars lol.

[Gretsch]

Your natural abilities has a pattern, which can usually be drawn as a curves. Curves with a peaks. Those curves varies a bit for different abilities but they are relentless. The real curve, the personal curve, can of course be adjusted. If you start training weightlifting at 25, you will be stronger at 35 than when you were 20. The older you get, the harder you must train to maintain level. And the easier it gets to get injured by doing so.

 

[vonhoff]

Perhaps this is just Nando doing a bit of sabre rattling to let the young guns know that he's still "got it"

[HP]

More than age I think it was the 3 year stop that damaged Schumy.

Don't forget his injury from bike riding

[HP]

That's crazy. Is that even possible to react to something that quick, especially with your fingers. I reckon he gambled, I do it all the time on project cars lol.

Don't think so, getting a penalty isn't worth it.

[Afterburner]

I don't disagree with him. There are a lot of 'older' guys in Indycar that pretty much run the show–and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some of them are probably in better shape than the F1 guys these days.

Kimi seems a pretty good example to prove Fernando's point.

[RPM40]

Kimi seems a pretty good example to prove Fernando's point.

 

I'm not really sure about that, Kimi has been remarkably mediocre, some would even say bad for a few years now. This year he's performed above the level people expect of him, but I still would struggle to rate him in the top 10 on the grid.

[Growing]

https://youtu.be/1bYYegYYy80

Maybe this crash wouldnt happen with alonso in 2006.

[HoldenRT]

I think Fernando Alonso says that the age is not important anymore because current cars are just too easy to drive.

 

Full article down below

 

http://en.f1i.com/ma...ust-heroes.html

 

The current regs do make it a lot easier for aging drivers.  But they are two seperate points.

[Gary Davies]

A guy in his 20's will have more energy and has faster reactions than a guy almost 40.

Fernando is defensive that's all. Talking things down to lift himself up.

What tosh. Watch this then get back to us.

 

[Gary Davies]

Apart from the age/performance discussion, this part of his comments speak to me of a guy who is seriously weighing up whether F1 is where he wants to be much longer:

 

“Definitely we have to change a lot with the current regulations. And also I think it helps the new generations to come to Formula One because if you do a lot of simulator, if you do a lot of PlayStation, now the cars are so slow and so delicate to drive that it’s about that kind of feeling that you can get on those tools.

 

“Whereas before, Formula One was just for heroes and for big men. You need to eat a lot if you want to drive a Formula One car from 2004 or 2003 at 15, 16 or 17 years old - or even 20 years old - you need to eat a lot. And now you are ready in winter testing already because the cars are half Formula One.”

“I think still the best arrive in Formula One, but they don’t need time to learn the category. They don’t need time to get 100% out of the car, they don’t need two or three years to be physically very strong to finish every single race at 100%. They don’t need the neck or anything, they can be 100% in race two.

“Right now I feel that when I go to a go-kart circuit. I take the go-kart and I do whatever lap-time, say 55 seconds. I do 55.0, 55.2, 55.2, 55.1, 55.2, I can do 18 laps in one or two tenths. Here [in F1] I do 1m30s, second lap 1m32s, third lap 1m36s, then you change tyres and you do 1m29s.

“You cannot drive as your instinct tells you. We are driving to save everything. We are driving to save tyres, we are driving to save fuel, to save the battery, so that’s a little bit frustrating right now how the sport is. Next year a lot of these problems the promoter understood, the teams understood, they listened to fans, they listened to drivers, so they made big changes for next year. There are a lot of hopes of coming back to a more exciting driving and a more exciting Formula One, so let’s see how it goes.”

[Ice1Fan]

I'm not really sure about that, Kimi has been remarkably mediocre, some would even say bad for a few years now. This year he's performed above the level people expect of him, but I still would struggle to rate him in the top 10 on the grid.

Really? Struggle to put him in top 10? Amazing. Trolls everywhere.   

[Gretsch]

Perhaps this is just Nando doing a bit of sabre rattling to let the young guns know that he's still "got it"

No, this is Nando letting Mercedes know he still "got it"

[RPM40]

Really? Struggle to put him in top 10? Amazing. Trolls everywhere.   

 

Why? He's still generally been a bit slower than Vettel and he's made a few race ending mistakes by himself. Don't get me wrong, he's still improved. But I've seen nothing more than 'Ok' level performance from him.

 

The thing is its not clear if that is age related decline. In age related decline you should see steady drop off season by season. 

Edited by RPM40, 08 November 2016 - 05:30.

[Baddoer]

He could be right. Racing these days is about predicting grip at certain parts of the track, not about reaction time. With age comes experience in that matter.

[Gretsch]

He could be right. Racing these days is about predicting grip at certain parts of the track, not about reaction time. With age comes experience in that matter.

With age it becomes harder and harder to focus for a longer period of time. Then experience does not matter. The statement in the headline for this thread is absurd, of course you become slower after your peak and very few peak at 35. If they do it is because they never extracted any of their talents at young age and that excludes all top athletes.

But it is true that experience and training negates some of the aging effects. For a while. But only if the athlete actually work to compensate for the river of time. Valentino Rossi is a good example of someone who actually managed to step up a notch after 35, so it is possible. It's not for everyone though, stepping up from a Valentino Rossi level can only be done by a Valentino Rossi.  That said, I do not think he is better than he was at his peak, but he might be.

Edited by Gretsch, 08 November 2016 - 06:22.

[RPM40]

He could be right. Racing these days is about predicting grip at certain parts of the track, not about reaction time. With age comes experience in that matter.

 

You hear a lot about how the drivers are just cruising out there, but you watch the onboards and there is still a lot of countersteer going on. The cars aren't as planted as the media like to say.

[beqa16v]

I think it´s a mental thing mainly. With age and experience -unfortunately/fortunately- comes a different mindset, you become less instinctive and more aware of the causes and effects. Those brief moments of consideration soon adds time to the lap.

Finally somebody nails it. This is exactly my point. Not only that but also you lose aggression because of being more risk aware, pay attention how younger drivers always take advantage of older drivers' more careful racing style during wheel to wheel battles.

 

I was 30 when I got into a single seater for my first professional race. I stopped by the end of last year at the age of 33 (I hope temporarily). Even though I was much faster when I stopped nevertheless I was more brave when I started. Not a night and day difference but still important when you take into account that it has been only 3 years.

 

Moreover, exhaustion also makes a lot of difference. When you are tired you can not take that much risk. Those who like downhill skiing will understand as I find mental condition during downhill skiing and racing very similar. Once you are tired you can not perform on the same level, you have less self confidence and are not able to take that much risk.

Edited by beqa16v, 08 November 2016 - 06:41.

[Pumpkinz]

Finally somebody nails it. This is exactly my point. Not only that but also you lose aggression because of being more risk aware, pay attention how younger drivers always take advantage of older drivers' more careful racing style during wheel to wheel battles.

 

 

But you did see Fernando racing in Austin for example?