5 replies to this topic

[RAP]

In the late 1920s-early 30s there was a French driver called Ivernel who ran a Bugatti. In the Formula One Register Black books he is given as "Ivernel" indicating this was a pseudonym. In the course of reviewing Vol 2 for a 2nd Edition I have started to come to the conclusion that this person is in fact Robert Ivernel. 

 

The first point to note is that French entry list, results and reports very rarely gave first names unless the driver was very well known. So the vast majority of period sources I have seen just say Ivernel, BUT Le Matin 10.4.32 gives Ivernel, Robert in the entry list for the Circuit de l'Aisne. Further, in the Aurelia Orleanais 5.8.39 when talking about a flying display it says (roughly translated) " Robert Ivernel, the old racing driver, presents...."

 

If you Google Robert Ivernel you will find that he was a noted French pilot in the late 30s representing France in aerobatics. 

Also you will find a Robert Ivernel at Buchenwald concentration camp in 1945 but that may be coincidence.

 

Can anyone confirm that our Bugatti driver should be Robert Ivernel ?

 

Richard Page

www.formulaoneregister.com 

 

 

[john winfield]

Richard, I'm not sure if this is of any use at all but here goes. A search of the french forum Autodiva finds five references to Ivernel, and at least one of the posts is by Sylvain 'Patrimoine51', who as far as I can remember is Remois. He refers to Ivernel as being from Ay, near Epernay. A search on french Google finds a pilot, RI, from Ay. (Summary, sometimes displayed half way down page, sometimes at the top.....Civil Aircraft Register France).

 

But looking more closely I find that the Ivernel from Ay driving in 1948, who is also a pilot, is Jean Ivernel! 

 

I'll leave you to decide whether this helps!

 

http://www.autodiva....=ivernel#p13474

 

https://www.google.c...ernel ay pilote

 

https://hleno.revues.org/246?lang=en

Section 39

 

Edit #2..the French Aircraft Register does also include a Robert Ivernel from Ay, flying in 1935 which, presumably, is what you would expect. I wonder if Jean and Robert were brothers.

 

Perhaps Sylvain on Autodiva can provide you with something conclusive?

Edited by john winfield, 20 November 2016 - 13:29.

[Vitesse2]

Heh, looks like John and I have been down the same route! This is Sylvain's post on Autodiva, telling us that the 1948 Ivernel hailed from Ay, near Epernay. I found the same Robert Ivernel of Ay aircraft register one too.

 

However, I also found this: the first post in this thread on a French canal boat forum records a sale in 1933 to a Robert Ivernel from Ay ...

 

http://www.vagus-vag...hp?f=145&t=5121

 

So, could be the right chap. Then, if you scroll down to October 19th on this Facebook timeline page you'll find two photos described as 'Foire à Epernay, stand Robert Ivernel, vente de produits pour les vignes.'

 

https://www.facebook...=PAGES_TIMELINE

 

The name Ivernel also seems to be very much associated with champagne production.

 

However, I don't see any evidence for John's suggestion that the 1948 Ivernel is identical with 'le colonel Jean Ivernel'. 'Pilote' does have more than one translation from French to English.

 

 

[Vitesse2]

The 1948 'Jean Ivernel' reference actually seems to emanate from either F2 Register or an old post by Alessandro Silva on this forum, in connection with Pierre Flahaut and - in turn - the mysterious Violet-Bernardet voiturette: http://www.bernardet...os_courses.html

 

http://forums.autosp...r/#entry1703632

[john winfield]

 

However, I don't see any evidence for John's suggestion that the 1948 Ivernel is identical with 'le colonel Jean Ivernel'. 'Pilote' does have more than one translation from French to English.

Vraiment? ......thank you Richard......  

 

No, I can't be certain it's the same Jean, or even relevant to the other Richard's original post. I followed up Sylvain's 1948 Coupe des Petites Cylindrées Reims-Gueux reference and found the Violet-Bernardet page. Sylvain had referred in his post to the Jean being a local (from Ay near Epernay) and, in the colonel's paragraph, you'll see he recalls his school days and seeing his aviator heroes Costes and Bellontes  flying over Epernay. Proves nothing I know but my guess is that Jean and Robert were related, possibly brothers, both raced cars and both flew planes.

Edited by john winfield, 20 November 2016 - 15:04.

[RAP]

Thanks chaps.
RAP