11 replies to this topic

[TerryS]

I have been reading how when the Alan Mann Escorts were built they secretly had "roof outriggers" fitted.

Can anyone enlighten me as to what "roof outriggers" are?

[GeoffR]

Which particular Alan Mann Escorts? There were a few.

[GeoffR]

There is no reference to anything like this in Graham Robson's very detailed book on the Works Escorts, which includes the AMR racing Escorts. More controversial would have been the 'supercharged' car at the time.

[bradbury west]

A long shot, but perhaps someone is misquoting terms from the design of the special rear suspension system built up on the gp 5 Escorts. ISTR there was a very full article on them in ASport in period. I recall a shot of the car inverted in the workshop for welding it in.
More in hope than expectation
Roger Lund

[elansprint72]

Never heard of roof outriggers and I can't recall any mention of such a thing in "A Life of Chance" the excellent Alan Mann/Tony Dron biog.

The "supercharged" car was a way to get around the regulations and up into the top-capacity class; having tried  a real supercharger and then a turbo-charger all they were doing was breaking engines; so they fitted a Smiths heater-fan into the induction system!

Of course this did nothing but  was, to the letter of the law, "forced induction"! I reckon that AMR could fairly claim to be pioneers of electric supercharging, which seems to be the thing of the moment. 

[bradbury west]

Where did you read it, Terry?

Roger Lund

[AAGR]

Who, when and where did the phrase 'roof outriggers' appear, Terry ?

 

With reference to the very simple engineering/layout of the two-door Escort saloon body shell, it doesn't make sense - and (if we only knew what it was) how  could it possibly have been included without breaking the homologation rules of the day ?

 

More detail please.....  

[bill p]

I have been reading how when the Alan Mann Escorts were built they secretly had "roof outriggers" fitted.
Can anyone enlighten me as to what "roof outriggers" are?

Is that to do with the channels on the underside of an Escort roof to strengthen the roof panel, I believe they were removed to lighten the shell.

To hide their removal the headlining was re-fitted to the red and gold cars which puzzled competitors as to why the team hadn't bothered to remove the headlining!

[RS2000]

Don't confuse the then group 5 with the later version. In that period Group 5 was very much Group 2 with freer engine and suspension regs. You certainly could not remove the headlining in Gp2 (and not even the rear seat until 1973).

 

I too have seen a reference to roof fittings in an AMR Escort context (and puzzled about it at the time) but cannot recall where. Some Mk2 shells had a bolted and glued production-fitted cross brace channel following the roof contour across the middle of the shell, which I suspect was a "Noise and Vibration" thing, but as far as I know it was not on Mk1 shells. Rather than removing the side roof channels they were sometimes brazed to form a box section as shell strengthening in the days before the sort of roll cages you see in "historics" today. 

Edited by RS2000, 27 November 2016 - 23:01.

[Ardmore]

Terry's query arose from this post

I am perturbed by references to "sister" car to XOO347F
that is Alan Mann escort and not a ford built car they were special and had outriggers welded into the roof
I was at Gomm metals before Frank died and he mentioned they built the Mann escort shells so I asked hm about the roof outriggers
He was surprised i knew about them and he said they where how first job when he started wring for his father as an apprentice and they where a "bee atch" to install. he said he must have done 3 or 4 shells and they often wrinkled with the heat and he couldn't give them to Mann team to use like that

on page 2 of this thread

http://www.theroarin...?160-AWA-Escort

[RS2000]

The Mann biography refers to welding in a "top hat" shaped cross brace to the roof in a not obvious way and that this proved the provenance of some of the cars much later on. Without ploughing through the Appendix J "freedoms" I can't recall when body strengthening became free in Gp2 but this was perfectly permissible in Gp2 in the final years but probably not then. Roll cage mountings were very limited then with none of the massive constructions used today that attach everywhere. The weakest point of a Mk1 Escort shell was by the A pillars whereas on a Mk2 it was below the C pillars. Either way, it was presumably seen as important to shell rigidity and would have been concealed by the head lining. The permitted cage then was little more than the initial hoop behind the B pillar. Later the "14 point" cage was the norm right to the end of that  Appendix J - the final Escorts in the 81 WRC still had no rear diagonal, not least because the passenger seat needed to be reclined.

My main concern in later years was that we had removed the standard production roof cross brace from a Mk2 International Rally car as weight saving rather than added anything, although I'm sure it was not standard production on all Mk2 models. I don't think Mk2 RS shells had it but mundane models did, suggesting that on standard cars it was more about "NVH" or whatever the term is.    

[bill p]

Is that to do with the channels on the underside of an Escort roof to strengthen the roof panel, I believe they were removed to lighten the shell.
To hide their removal the headlining was re-fitted to the red and gold cars which puzzled competitors as to why the team hadn't bothered to remove the headlining!

The driver of XOO 349F at the Festival of Speed in 2003 recounted this story........