1165 replies to this topic

[Disgrace]

Part V. Have at it folks.

[Riverside]

Nico WDC - Yes indeed.  

[SR388]

Congratulations to Nico.


So are Lewis and merc done?

Edited by SR388, 27 November 2016 - 17:20.

[TheHoneyBadger3]

Hamilton beats Rosberg in every possible way other than points and that's all that matters.

[Ricardo F1]

Most wins, anihilated his opponent in qualifying, let down by team. Default Champion.

[Clatter]

Congratulations to Nico.


So are Lewis and merc done?

Doubt it, but doesn't sound like it is an harmonious relationship.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Congratulations to Nico.


So are Lewis and merc done?

I very much doubt it!

[NateF]

Most wins, anihilated his opponent in qualifying, let down by team. Default Champion.

Rosberg is the default champion bagged the points

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Doubt it, but doesn't sound like it is an harmonious relationship.

It will be again when the dust settles...

[sennafan24]

Nico WDC - Yes indeed.  

You had to get it in first didn't you?

[SR388]

That end of season briefing will be fascinating.

[garoidb]

So are Lewis and merc done?

 

Who needs who the most? Lewis would be unwise to want to leave right now. He has an excellent chance of the 2017 WDC. Who else can give him that?

 

But has he annoyed Mercedes to the extent that they would like to offload him? I doubt it, unless he wants it too.

[Jordan44]

The frosty relationship worries me going into next year. My trust in the board to manage their drivers sensibly was well and truly lost this season.

[Clatter]

It will be again when the dust settles...

Not so sure about that having heard about his threat to quit after Spain.

[RPM40]

Becoming a champion to me has always meant a special achievement. Even the IMO "lesser" titles like 2012 or 2007 were won against what felt like genuine hardship and by great perseverance.

Nico is a fast driver, but I just struggle to view him as a champion. It's been a long time since I've looked at a champion and thought they sort of inherited it. It's rare in f1 and really only occurs in seasons with extreme dominance.

I dunno good for him and you can't say he's a weak driver. But I struggle to view this as any meaningful title or reimagination of how I viewed him in past

[garoidb]

Most wins, anihilated his opponent in qualifying, let down by team. Default Champion.

 

Without that team, he would still be a 1xWDC. They have done more for him that he has done for them (since they would have won all these WDCs anyway).

[gillesfan76]

 You called Toto a hypocrite because teams backup other rival drivers in another team in order for one of their drivers to win a race.  Did that happen today????  

Can't see the difference? 

 

LOL I already explained the rational, it's like you completely ignored it. Yes Toto is a hypocrite if he thinks a driver backing up a title rival is unsporting. It doesn't matter if that title rival is a team mate or a driver from another team. The key word is "RIVAL".

 

The point I'm making is that Toto understands that it is perfectly sporting to back up a rival. For example he would have no hesitation asking one of his drivers to back up Seb so that his other driver can win. Just like Horner did this race with strategy getting Max to back up Kimi.

 

But Toto suddenly finds it unsporting when Lewis backs up his rival? Why should it make any difference to Lewis that his rival just happens to be his team mate? The key word is "RIVAL" especially since Mercedes has already won both the constructor's and driver's championships regardless.

 

Simply put, a driver backing up another driver is either unsporting or it isn't. The definition doesn't change simply because the two drivers happen to be team mates and RIVALS going towards the same driver's championship goal.

[NateF]

The frosty relationship worries me going into next year. My trust in the board to manage their drivers sensibly was well and truly lost this season.

That's is a problem, Wolff and Lauda haven't covered themselves in glory when it comes to impartiality but hopefully the "team" will be more professional

[f1paul]

The season is over but the discussion certainly isn't!

[anyeis]

About us much "luck" as you need to beat Hamilton.

 

Few engine blowups isnt anything abnormal. He could have still won it with a few better starts

[GrumpyYoungMan]

I can not see Mercedes loosing Hamilton due to this season as he couldn't have done any more... his performances have been near on perfect!

[Retrofly]

You guys need to chill.

 

The season is over, Nico won, but Hamilton still showed he has what it takes.

 

Lets relax for a bit, let both sets of fans enjoy the success.

 

Lewis is going no where.

[f1paul]

Well done Nico you're a deserving champion and your drive today showed that. It was a champions drive. As for Lewis I still rate him higher but that's racing and it's also life I guess, sometimes it goes you're way but sometimes everything is against you.

[WelshSwan]

Nico WDC - Yes indeed.  

 

Default WDC though.    In all seriousness, seeing how happy Nico is I doubt he gives a hoot what people think, Hamilton's reliability issues have nothing to do with him and he's done what he has needed to do. Painful if you're a Hamilton fan of course, not so much if you're a Nico fan! 

[Ricardo F1]

Merc aren't stupid, they have Lewis under contract for next year and if the teams are closer they need him. He's also worth a lot more to them commercially. Wolff should have been apologetic today not confrontational, its his position and reputation that needs more scrutiny in the off season, Lewis will be off training.

[aray]

Since next year RB will be much closer,i don't think any  deterioration of relationship between LH and Merc management will spill down on the track.Merc simply can't afford it...

[garoidb]

The frosty relationship worries me going into next year. My trust in the board to manage their drivers sensibly was well and truly lost this season.

 

The start of 2017 will be very interesting in several ways. Will Mercedes still be WDC competitive? Are other teams in the mix also. Which driver will get the better start to the season? Will they have to modify their approach when not practically guaranteed the wins and championships?

[GrumpyYoungMan]

The frosty relationship worries me going into next year. My trust in the board to manage their drivers sensibly was well and truly lost this season.

Frosty as it was probably agreed to let Rosberg have one as he "deserves" a title!

[Dicun]

You had to get it in first didn't you?

 

He beat me to it 

[Huffer]

The result of the season was pretty much decided in Spa and then Malaysia. There's very little Hamilton could have done to avoid that - the clutch issues are somewhat questionable. Was it Hamilton, was it an issue with the clutch itself or something else? Marc were telling Ham that he had been doing everything right, but there was still the issue with the starts.

 

The season has been a pretty one sided affair and it was far from being entertaining. At no point did we get to see the two driver race against each other due to all of the issues - and the one time we got close to it - well, we all know how Spain went down.

 

If I were a better person, I'd eat crow and congratulate Rosberg without bringing up anything that undermines his title. But the disparity in the chances given to the two drivers because of reliability are just to glaring for me to let it pass without comment. This probably says more bad things about me more than anything else I suppose.

[sennafan24]

He beat me to it 

I'm obviously disappointed, but I'm happy for you two.

 

I wasn't happy for any sod at the end of the race though 

[Marklar]

Rosberg the deserved WDC. Hamilton the better driver over the year.

[TheManAlive]

Rosberg is a deserving champion (anyone who wins is a deserving champion).

 

Now the dust is settling I still think Lewis lost due to Malaysia. Yes he had his errors at starts etc but he made up for them with his driving elsewhere and if he had not lost Malaysia he would be WDC now.

 

Having said that, if Lewis is going to lose to someone the I am glad it was Nico this year. Much of my frustration with Nico comes from the anti-Lewis 'Nico Fans' on these boards and not actually from him. Of all the other drivers on the grid I think I would only put Dani Ric ahead of Nico as someone I would rather see winning if Lewis has to lose. So overall I am as content as a Lewis fan can be. He blitzed the last 4 races (if he hadn't had the engine and start issues, I think this would have been a real snorefest championship) against Nico taking each race on its own (ie trying to win) in his own words. In my heart I have known it was over since Japan when whatever Lewis did he couldn't take the win, rather Nico had to lose it.

 

So, 2016 is over. We have lost Jenson and Felipe, crowned a new world champion and the current rules are over (which is a mistake as next year there will be no overtaking and Red Bull was just coming on song). Time for a rest from F1 for a few months but will be eager when they start testing in Feb (?).

 

And finally, gotta say, the season is TOO long. We should not be finishing in late November. End of October, very begining of November maybe, but not this late. 

[P123]

Now we're on a new part.... congrats to Nico. He did deserve it in the end. I've said it before, but there definitely isn't the uneasy feeling with Nico being WDC that there would have been had Massa or Irvine won it. Those would have been travesties. This is not. He's not quite as fast as Lewis, but he's close enough, and unlike many others (countering the "any driver could win in a Merc" theory), very consistent too.

As for Lewis, he can hold his head high. He drove very well, broadly let down by reliability woes early season and the Malaysian sting in the tale. I don't think he has ever driven better in qualifying (Bakku aside!) either.

Roll on 2017. Perhaps the dour face management duo of Merc will have cheered up by then. For Lewis the loss is still raw, but he'll get over it. His team management want to beat him over the head into submission though, so remains to be seen if they can change their less than sympathetic attitude. Had the strange feeling, and not for the first time this season, that the No1 enemy of those two is Lewis Hamilton...

[WelshSwan]

You guys need to chill.

 

The season is over, Nico won, but Hamilton still showed he has what it takes.

 

Lets relax for a bit, let both sets of fans enjoy the success.

 

Lewis is going no where.

 

Everything is still very raw at the moment, I am sure once the dust settles so to speak Wolff, Lauda et al will ultimately understand why Lewis did what he did as it was his best chance of winning the title. Had he stormed off down the road Nico would have had a comfortable time in second place, Lewis HAD to put him under pressure and try and force him into making a mistake. Ultimately, it showed how composed Nico was and how far he has come, he could easily have made a mistake and 'cracked' under the pressure but he didn't. I think even Nico will understand why Lewis did what he did. 

 

Had Lewis deliberately crashed Nico off the road then yeah, I'd say there'd be no turning back for him and his relationship with Mercedes would be impossible to heal but that didn't happen. Mercedes top people may not be impressed with what Lewis did today but they'd be stupid to let him go or try to force him out, he still has a couple more WDC's in him at least in my opinion (and that's coming from a Nico fan!'. 

[Riverside]

 

 

LOL I already explained the rational, it's like you completely ignored it. Yes Toto is a hypocrite if he thinks a driver backing up a title rival is unsporting. It doesn't matter if that title rival is a team mate or a driver from another team. The key word is "RIVAL".

 

The point I'm making is that Toto understands that it is perfectly sporting to back up a rival. For example he would have no hesitation asking one of his drivers to back up Seb so that his other driver can win. Just like Horner did this race with strategy getting Max to back up Kimi.

 

But Toto suddenly finds it unsporting when Lewis backs up his rival? Why should it make any difference to Lewis that his rival just happens to be his team mate? The key word is "RIVAL" especially since Mercedes has already won both the constructor's and driver's championships regardless.

 

Simply put, a driver backing up another driver is either unsporting or it isn't. The definition doesn't change simply because the two drivers happen to be team mates and RIVALS going towards the same driver's championship goal.

 

 

 

Your example for calling him a hypocrite is complete BS.  Of course  a team uses one of it's drivers to slow another rival on another team.  If you can't get your head around how you can't even compare the two ..... Obviously you struggle with a simple notion of a team versus another team and obviously drivers on the same team.   But all this is really - it the usual shade that gets thrown at Merc / Toto  after every bloody race that does not have a favourable outcome for Hamilton.   

Edited by Riverside, 27 November 2016 - 17:37.

[Synkro89]

Without that team, he would still be a 1xWDC. They have done more for him that he has done for them (since they would have won all these WDCs anyway).

Ive seen you mention this before. They wanted him , He wanted them. Simple as that . If he leaves as a 3 x wdc so be it. I don't want him in a toxic environment even if that means him leaving formula 1.

[Jordan44]

As I said earlier... Nico is the one who needs a few more fans.  

 

He's just won the title but this all the media care about.

 

http://www.dailystar...ns-Social-Media

Edited by Jordan44, 27 November 2016 - 17:39.

[NateF]

The daily star the paper that's is to low to be called a tabloid, gutter press indeed

[TheManAlive]

So does Lewis have just 2017 on his contract or 2018 as well?

 

If just 2017 then he is in a great position - if Merc arent great next year he can look at whoever is beating him, if they are great then his driving will talk and they will offer another contract. Lewis is at thetop of his game and I dont see the likes of Mclaren or Ferrari not wanting him (and there are seats at both for 2018). Red Bull wont take him as then only use drivers from their own stable (which is a shame - Alonso alongside Dani Ric the last two years would have been awesome).

[WelshSwan]

As I said earlier... Nico is the one who needs a few more fans.  

 

He's just won the title but this all the media care about.

 

http://www.dailystar...ns-Social-Media

 

'So Nico, which would you rather? Be more popular than Lewis and have the most fans or win a WDC despite it being deemed 'unfair' because of all the problems your team mate has had?' 

 

'Umm....' 

 

http://video.skyspor.../promo304527516

Edited by WelshSwan, 27 November 2016 - 17:42.

[Jordan44]

'So Nico, which would you rather? Be more popular than Lewis and have the most fans or win a WDC despite it being deemed 'unfair' because of all the problems your team mate has had?' 

 

'Umm....' 

 

That wasn't the point.

[Marklar]

So does Lewis have just 2017 on his contract or 2018 as well?

 

If just 2017 then he is in a great position - if Merc arent great next year he can look at whoever is beating him, if they are great then his driving will talk and they will offer another contract. Lewis is at thetop of his game and I dont see the likes of Mclaren or Ferrari not wanting him (and there are seats at both for 2018). Red Bull wont take him as then only use drivers from their own stable (which is a shame - Alonso alongside Dani Ric the last two years would have been awesome).

From what I know he has a contract until the end of 2018, but he has an opt-out clause for 2017, I just dont know if he can trigger it based WDC standings (like Vettel did), based on WCC standings (this is what Hamilton had in his McLaren contract) or for no reasons.

[garoidb]

Ive seen you mention this before. They wanted him , He wanted them. Simple as that . If he leaves as a 3 x wdc so be it. I don't want him in a toxic environment even if that means him leaving formula 1.

 

I mentioned it in the context of someone blaming the team for his losing the WDC. They are also the reason he won the previous two WDCs. 

 

Wouldn't this be the second toxic environment he has left?

[Crazy Canuck]

Congrats to Nico, well deserved WDC.  I dont think there is any doubt that Lewis is the faster driver on a given day but it wasn't his season.

 

 

CC

Edited by Crazy Canuck, 29 November 2016 - 01:32.

[WelshSwan]

That wasn't the point.

 

Nico isn't all that popular, most of us that support him know that but do so anyway. Lewis has a HUGE fanbase and as a result, because of things that have happened in the past, most Hamilton fans are not going to have Nico on their christmas card list. I said yesterday and before that if Nico was to win it would be deemed a 'tainted' championship by many, it was always going to happen. 

 

Lewis is always going to have more fans, nothing will change that. Nico has won this WDC, nothing will change that either regardless of what people may feel or think. If Lewis had won today, he'd have been worthy, I see Nico as a worthy champion, many do not and never will. 

[as65p]

That wasn't the point.

 

What was the point? That Hamilton will always be the social media champ, probably way beyond his active racing career? No argument from me.

[Jordan44]

What was the point? That Hamilton will always be the social media champ, probably way beyond his active racing career? No argument from me.

 

That people claiming "Hamilton has done himself no favours today" are incorrect, because social media is primarily about this 'undeserved' championship.

[P123]

I mentioned it in the context of someone blaming the team for his losing the WDC. They are also the reason he won the previous two WDCs. 
 
Wouldn't this be the second toxic environment he has left?

What was the first one?

[sennafan24]

What was the point? That Hamilton will always be the social media champ, probably way beyond his active racing career? No argument from me.

Be careful, I believe Senna has the most Facebook likes.

 

Lewis has a passionate - and annoying - fanbase on social media. However, it's countered by flocks of people who take the opposite perspective. Rosberg is hardly beloved either. Vettel and Kimi are your true current IC Champions (Internet Champs), with Schumacher taking the UFC (Undisputed Forum Championship)