52 replies to this topic

[AndrewC]

Hi Not Much to go on i know, but any one know where this is? 63 or 64 Wiscombe, Prescott, Brunton are some of the place i know the car competed.

Any way its i nice pic so i hope you don`t mind me posting.

andrew

 

[RobMk2a]

My initial thought is Harewood which was created at this time so could be the reason for the earth bank (but I could be wrong) do you know the driver's name.

Rob Pennington

[Stephen W]

Hard to tell from such a small photo (i.e lack of detail in background). Some additional info as suggested by Rob Mk 2A would be helpful.

[AndrewC]

Hi, its my late father V J Crapnell. he didn`t  travel to far from Wiltshire to compete, i know he was at the hillclimbs i mentioned plus Dyrham  park and one or two others. I know he was at Wiscombe when it was wet.

Ps i have a few other pic that might interest some i will post later

Thanks Andrew 

[RS2000]

Not Wiscombe. Tregrehan has banks but not quite like that.

[bradbury west]

Could it be the top corner at Prescott, taken broadside to the car, whereas most shots have the cars approaching close to the rt bank from the left?
Roger Lund

[Rupertlt1]

The helpful Prescott archivist should be able to find #100 in period. RGDS RLT 

[RobMk2a]

Could it be the top corner at Prescott, taken broadside to the car, whereas most shots have the cars approaching close to the rt bank from the left?
Roger Lund

Im not sure it is Prescott, if it was the top rh bend Ettores Field would be in the background where there are normally cars parked and the bridge in the distance? There is no bank on the rh bend now so if you get it wrong you go down a rather steep dip.

Longleat was another SW hillclimb but I've only seen a video of this so can't help.

Rob

Edited by RobMk2a, 09 December 2016 - 15:45.

[AndrewC]

He did compete at longleat. could be Prescott June 64. It was wet would be good if it was, as dad particularly proud of that one. He beat Phil Scagg in his light weight E type

Andrew 

[RS2000]

Could only be Longleat if that bank was a very temporary one (it's not made of disintegrating straw bales, nothing to do with the event, is it?). The course of more recent years was the same one as then. The far background view is "sort of" right but the buildings/vehicles in the distance do not fit unless there was major change when the Safari Park was built. To-day you would see camels etc.wandering around in the distance behind a high wire fence. 

[AndrewC]

Hi how about this one 66 to 68

Andrew

[Allan Lupton]

 The venue above is Prescott, approaching Orchard

 

Im not sure it is Prescott, if it was the top rh bend Ettores Field would be in the background where there are normally cars parked and the bridge in the distance? There is no bank on the rh bend now so if you get it wrong you go down a rather steep dip.

The semicircle (rh bend) was always without a left bank - there was a hedge a little way down the slope for Allard's Gap to be punched out of it!

Edited by Allan Lupton, 09 December 2016 - 18:17.

[AndrewC]

Perhaps it is prescott from the same photographer .I will try and post it bigger

[Rupertlt1]

Andrew, See Brunton thread for Jaguar 3.8. Do you have any documents? RGDS RLT

[AndrewC]

Andrew, See Brunton thread for Jaguar 3.8. Do you have any documents? RGDS RLT

Hi i have a nice pick of the 3.8 but the only info i have is out of old Autosports. Think dad won at Brunton in 3 cars the 3.8, e type and the mini

Andrew

[Rupertlt1]

Which Autosports? Results? Dates? RGDS RLT

[ron54]

Bit late to the party but........Deffo not Dyrham, walked up the hill  yesterday (N.T. property now of course).

 

I agree it is Prescott,I reckon that is/was Jackie Weltons house in the background....

"Quick" Vic came from Bradford -on-Avon I think.. started completing in a mk2 Jag.

 

The E-Type was dark blue?

 

Of course I may be wrong on all counts but..............................

[RobMk2a]

Bit late to the party but........Deffo not Dyrham, walked up the hill yesterday (N.T. property now of course).

I agree it is Prescott,I reckon that is/was Jackie Weltons house in the background....
"Quick" Vic came from Bradford -on-Avon I think.. started completing in a mk2 Jag.

The E-Type was dark blue?

Of course I may be wrong on all counts but..............................

Do you think the line by the trees on the right hand side of the picture could be the return road and the photo is taken very close to the finish line.

Edited by RobMk2a, 09 December 2016 - 19:44.

[Geoff E]

I was wondering if it was Pardon Hairpin in the top LH corner.

[AndrewC]

Bit late to the party but........Deffo not Dyrham, walked up the hill  yesterday (N.T. property now of course).

 

I agree it is Prescott,I reckon that is/was Jackie Weltons house in the background....

"Quick" Vic came from Bradford -on-Avon I think.. started completing in a mk2 Jag.

 

The E-Type was dark blue?

 

Of course I may be wrong on all counts but..............................

Mostly right the e type was green. Heres the 3.8 at Combe. Did you see dad compete? most people i have spoke  say how loud it was.

[AndrewC]

Which Autosports? Results? Dates? RGDS RLT

I will try and post tomorrow (not sure they will big enough to read, but we will find out) or can e mail them

Andrew

[ron54]

Mostly right the e type was green. Heres the 3.8 at Combe. Did you see dad compete? most people i have spoke  say how loud it was.

Yes indeed many times....most cars seemed to be loud in those pre "silenced" times..I remember your dad as a quite unassuming kind of feller though nothing noisy about him!

Good clean driver and well thought of in the paddock,he did have stiff competition in both his classes but did well... 

[Stephen W]

Doesn't look anything like Prescott or Wiscombe.

 

What about Great Auclum as another possibility?

[Vitesse2]

Great Auclum was more wooded than that, as I recall it. And I think the only place you could look down on the cars was the short downhill section near the start, before the banked bend.

[AndrewC]

Hi

Dose any one have or know any pics from these long gone venues, such as Blanford, Yeovilton, Holimarine, St Audries bay

I remember him talking about Yeovilton a simple layout but he had some very good results there, including a ftd and 2 knock out wins.

I have found a nice pick of dads great rival at the time Ron Fry

Ron Fry in his 250 GTO went head to head a few times with dad in 63 and 64. This is at Combe

Andrew

Edited by AndrewC, 10 December 2016 - 15:35.

[RS2000]

Is anyone actually familiar with the top part of Brunton? I know we've had photos of the start on here. It's the only southern hill climb venue I've never seen or seen photos/film of. Unless (post 26)Blandford was considered a hill climb rather than a sprint. I really can't come up with anything else to match the E type photo (even allowing for the fact it could be returning down the hill - although the driver is wearing a helmet and the ludicrous practice of forcing drivers to wear helmets down the hill in a slow convoy behind a course car driven by someone without one is a relatively modern  aberration of a few sw hills.

I believe Yeovilton sprint was a short flat area (now built on by MoD) north of the old A303 from the airfield about opposite the museum. I've done St Audries Bay as a rally stage - very narrow, steep, road from a caravan site almost on the shore, up a cliff. 

Where was Holimarine? (a sprint presumably, since all hill climbs are documented but sprint venues - like rally stages - are a lost cause when it comes to trying to compile a complete list for history).

[Rupertlt1]

I agree we have difficulty in finding pics/film of Brunton.
If you look on the Brunton thread the second picture of the #89 Rochdale Olympic does not look incompatible with the picture of the Jaguar E-Type.

BTW Brunton is known to have attracted more than 100 entrants on occasion.

 

RGDS RLT

[Tim Murray]

Where was Holimarine? (a sprint presumably, since all hill climbs are documented but sprint venues - like rally stages - are a lost cause when it comes to trying to compile a complete list for history).

According to Julian Hunt in Motorsport Explorer the sprint course ran along the South Esplanade at Burnham-on-Sea. It headed south out of the town, from the inshore lifeboat station to the Haven Holiday Village. I bet ron54 can tell us more.

[fuzzi]

And researching speed events (sprints, speed trials and hill climbs as well as race circuits) only took 4 short years very nearly full-time.

 

Andrew, if you want photos of the events you have mentioned, get in touch with Ted Walker at Ferret Fotographic he is a real enthusiast and should be able to help you - he might even have more photos of your Dad.

Edited by fuzzi, 11 December 2016 - 09:46.

[Rupertlt1]

Two sightings:

 

32nd Brunton Hill Climb, Sunday 21st April 1963

Class 5:

#20 V. Crapnell, Jaguar 3.8 Mk.2, 1st run 31.94 sec, 2nd run 33.27 sec, 1st class award

 

Weston-Super-Mare National Speed Trials, 1st October 1966

#21 V.J. Crapnell, Bradford-on-Avon, Austin Mini-Cooper S, 1293 c.c., 24.38 sec

(I think class winner)

 

I can also suggest B.A.R.C. Archives at Thruxton as possible source of pictures.

 

RGDS RLT

[AndrewC]

Hi do you think this is Holimarine? or St Audries Bay?

 

[Vitesse2]

St Audries Bay. Pic from TripAdvisor:

 

 

Burnham-on-Sea is flatter than a flat thing that's been run over by a steamroller ...

[ron54]

St Audries Bay. Pic from TripAdvisor:

 

 

Burnham-on-Sea is flatter than a flat thing that's been run over by a steamroller ...

Funny you should mention steam rollers.. W.W.Buncombe & Co. in the day had one of the largest hire fleets of steam rollers in the south of England.In the 60's John Buncombe was  Chairman of Burnham-on-Sea motor club who used to run the annual sprint at the Holimarine Holiday Park at B-O-S..

 

The course was run within the grounds of the camp on private land only,never along the seafront.

A bit twisty along the access roads between the chalets & caravans,because of the many bends speeds were lowish...just as well really!

 

To get back to the original snap of VC it was not at Holimarine( too flat and only 10-15 ft. above sea level. 

[bradbury west]

Any thoughts about the possibility of it being the old Hillclimb just outside Torquay? Oddicombe?
Roger Lund

[Stephen W]

Certainly not ODDICOMBE. Having visited it several times the open downhill views were dominated by the seascapes..

[ron54]

Nobodies mentioned Gurston Down yet... is that a possibility? 

[Rupertlt1]

Gurston Down opened in 1967 - I think the picture predates that, circa 1964-1965 - what is the registration number of the Jaguar E-Type? Is it known? RGDS RLT

[AndrewC]

Hi dad had the car 63 to 64. The car still exists or did 5 or 6 years ago. Got a few pics of it but i love the first one i posted,wit the  window open i can see its my dad.

Rupert have you got access to the Autosport  reports of Brunton? i have 3 or 4  more

Andrew

[Rupertlt1]

Andrew,

 

I have some reports, but am trying to complete the history of Brunton so anything is most welcome.

It is hard to understand how some events held there have disappeared into history leaving no trace.

The missing bits are here (the fifties being largely complete):

http://forums.autosp...-2#entry7790710

 

My visits include B.A.R.C. at Thruxton; IMRRC in Watkins Glen, New York; REVS in Naples, Florida to try to crack the case.

Any fragments would make for a Happy Christmas!

 

RGDS RLT

[Stephen W]

A lot of the event reports were filed by motor club secretaries. Sometimes if they missed the deadline the report would be held-over until the following week however in a lot of instances it was deemed old news and never published.

[Rupertlt1]

Steve, Point taken, but for example AFAIK there was a round of the Castrol-B.A.R.C. Hill Climb Championship at Brunton, 7 June 1970.

We know nothing about it? No report, results sheet, programme - nothing?

What about Autosport, Motoring News, Autocar, Motor, B.A.R.C. Gazette etc etc. 

(I plan to contact Castrol to see if they have anything.)

 

RGDS RLT

 

P.S. You might like these:

 

http://www.mountgree..._April_70_a.jpg

 

http://www.mountgree..._April_70_b.jpg

 

(misnamed Burton!)
 

Edited by Rupertlt1, 13 December 2016 - 12:12.

[RS2000]

Interesting to see a reference in the second link above to Brian Preston (south west champion in his MIni one year around then). He made a return in a supercharged Polo in the early 90s when I was competing and was often parked next to him in the paddock. He prepared for each run by playing Gregorian Chant on the car's sound system and talked about getting atoms into alignment - at which point I tended to make my apologies and find a pressing task to attend to on my car.

 

Have you exhausted the knowledge of those involved with Gurston today? There was an archivist listed not too long ago but I can't see any reference on their site now.

 

I can't find my own map covering Brunton but satellite photos seem to show a line of trees not dissimilar to the row in the right background of the E type photo.

Edited by RS2000, 13 December 2016 - 19:38.

[Rupertlt1]

I like the yarn about Brian Preston - it was the Age of Aquarius! 

 

There was a Graham Masters, B.A.R.C. South West, who was nominally the archivist. I haven't heard from him in a while.

 

The row of trees also show up in the picture of the #89 Rochdale Olympic.

 

I thought doing the Brunton history would be a piece of cake after Firle. How wrong can you be!

 

RGDS RLT

[RS2000]

I think we can safely declare the first photo as Brunton, taken from just before the finish, looking due north. I still haven't found my OS 50,000 sheet 174 but I have an old "One Inch" map (167) with Brunton on it. The course seems to have run from roughly GR 243562 to 253563. The row of trees in the right background fits. The buildings in the left background are the furthest extent of the hamlet of Brunton, not the start, which is further to the left out of shot. There are strip lynchets shown on the map in the field in front of the far left of the trees and these can just about be made out in the photo. (For anyone not from England, they are mediaeval terracing of the slope to aid crop growing, surviving now as gently rounded low banks).

 

At the finish the map shows "Tinkerbarn", buildings to the north side of the track. About 5 years ago, current hill climber Karl Stevens from nearby Andover told me he had to go and look at a fork lift truck on a farm. He was directed up a lane to a barn complex and was surprised to see, on the way, motorsport type kerbs with traces of paint surviving on them. He was previously unaware of the existence of Brunton hill climb - which shows just how much it has disappeared into history.   

[Geoff E]

I still haven't found my OS 50,000 sheet 174 but I have an old "One Inch" map (167) with Brunton on it. The course seems to have run from roughly GR 243562 to 253563. The row of trees in the right background fits. The buildings in the left background are the furthest extent of the hamlet of Brunton, not the start, which is further to the left out of shot. There are strip lynchets shown on the map in the field in front of the far left of the trees and these can just about be made out in the photo. (For anyone not from England, they are mediaeval terracing of the slope to aid crop growing, surviving now as gently rounded low banks).

 

At the finish the map shows "Tinkerbarn", buildings to the north side of the track. About 5 years ago, current hill climber Karl Stevens from nearby Andover told me he had to go and look at a fork lift truck on a farm. He was directed up a lane to a barn complex and was surprised to see, on the way, motorsport type kerbs with traces of paint surviving on them. He was previously unaware of the existence of Brunton hill climb - which shows just how much it has disappeared into history.   

 

You might prefer to view 1:25000 map http://www.streetmap...56277&A=Y&Z=115

[Rupertlt1]

SUNBAC Silverstone, 1 July 1962

"Fighting for the lead in the

production car race with G.D.

Allen in an 1100 Morris Mini-

Cooper, I. J. Crapnell spun his

Jaguar on Woodcote when the

suspension broke, and the car

had to be left in the middle of

the track, with the race still on."

Birmingham Daily Post , Monday, 3 September 1962

 

See also: https://forums.autos...-4#entry8917274

 

RGDS RLT

[AndrewC]

Thanks for that Rupert. As he drove the car to meetings it was a pain, but the car was repaired with new supension and was transformed. Driving fast got easier, but it must have been well worn to brake like that!

[Jagjon]

Thanks for that Rupert. As he drove the car to meetings it was a pain, but the car was repaired with new supension and was transformed. Driving fast got easier, but it must have been well worn to brake like that!

http://www.xkedata.c...ail/?car=860613.    chassis  860613 engine R5841.9  registered 19/02/1963.

I owned  4282 DP in the early 1970's  it was a metallic green & we painted it red.  I remember it had the Dunlop competition wire wheels, it had been owned by a guy named Goodyear at Sandiway near Oulton Park but I bought it from a guy in Southport with a blown engine.  I fitted the engine from my MK10 which was a quick old thing anyway  reg BOO666 & I figured it wouldn't be much slower.

In fact everyone who owned it later thought it was about the quickest   E they experienced.  I sold it to a friend  & later after he sold it I had it back and sold & bought it a few times.  The last time to an antique dealer 

I think named Pender  who  I believe emigrated to Canada  & I thought the car had gone with him, but I just checked the DVLA site  which shows it  is now blue & presumably still in UK.

It was a memorable car & I had a few.   I guess it  liked to be driven hard & it was.  I am fairly sure the rear suspension had  some modification & it was definitely the best handling of any I had experience with.

Edited by Jagjon, 27 October 2019 - 19:37.

[Rupertlt1]

ONE of the fastest privately owned Jaguar

saloons in the country. 1961 3.8 Mk. 2,

rebuilt in accordance with appendix "J" Group 2

by Jaguars 4,000 miles ago, with further modifi-

cations recently carried out by Coombs. Total

mileage 18,900, competition mileage less than 50.

This car has never been damaged and is in

perfect condition, full speciflcation can be had on

request. Would sell for £1,250, or part exchange

for 1962 F.H.C. E-type.—V. J. Crapnell, North-

leigh, Bradford-on-Avon (phone : 3137), Wilts.

Autosport, 12 July 1963, Page 71

(This is YMW 998? Did he race more than one Jaguar saloon?)

 

Was at Brunton, Sunday 15 September 1963, in an E-type coupé.

Vic Crapnell also appeared at Dyrham Park, 21 September 1963, in an E-type.

Also Prescott, Sunday 3 May 1964.

Does this help date the photograph?

See also: https://forums.autos.../#entry10692269

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 26 September 2024 - 07:03.

[AndrewC]

Thanks Rupert, this was sent to me a while back which confirms the dates and the events of the pics. He only had the one saloon which he sold for the E type

 

27^th National Open Speed Hill Climb

May 3^rd 1964

Class 7

No. 112  V.J. Crapnell  Jaguar E  3781cc  56.84 secs   57.84 secs  2^nd in Class

 

19^th Members Speed Hill Climb

June 7^th 1964

Class 7

No. 100  Victor Crapnell  Jaguar E  3781cc  58.573 secs  61.694 secs   1^st in Class

 

Still try to track down any nice pictures of dad in his mini, ether racing at Castle Combe or one of the speed events he did

Thanks again