115 replies to this topic

[ilferrari]

Driving a Formula 1 car surprisingly easy - MotoGP's Jorge Lorenzo

 

Jorge Lorenzo said that the Mercedes F1 was so easy to control, "they had to put me on wet grip to feel some difficulty because in the dry it was very easy".

 

"I was very quick from the beginning... they didn't expect after just a few hours an inexperienced driver to be close to this limit."

 

"I imagined that in the corners the car would be very easy to spin, to lose control, but it was very easy to be fast."

 

Lorenzo also stated that F2 cars are harder to control: "I expected it to be much harder to drive because I tried an F2 two days before at Snetterton and the F2 was very difficult to drive,"

 

[Marklar]

Well, go ahead then, Jorge. Mercedes is desperately searching for a new driver 

[SinStorm]

I imagine the car was setup to be as driver friendly as possible. Nowhere near as aggressive or on the limit as is possible.

[Neno]

shots fired. make it rain lorenzo. tell the truth to people. 

[f1paul]

F1 cars are easy to control on a game-Yes

F1 cars are easy to control in real life-No

[Dan333SP]

He had to say it was easy after Vale spun an F2004 a few times when he tested a decade ago. It's all part of the ongoing mindgames between them.

 

http://www.crash.net...1-regulars.html

Edited by Dan333SP, 09 December 2016 - 21:02.

[Anja]

I don't know what's supposed to be surprising or "shocking" about it. It's only natural that with more technology the cars are bound to become relatively (the key word) easier to drive. It still doesn't mean any random person can hop in and be competitive. 

Edited by Anja, 09 December 2016 - 21:19.

[Dan333SP]

I don't know what's supposed to be surprising or "shocking" about it. It's only natural that with more technology the cars are bound to become relatively (the key word) easier to drive. It still doesn't mean any random person can hop in and be competitive. 

 

Right, a MotoGP rider has a huge advantage over Joe Schmoe who has never driven a car around a race track before. He's used to the racing lines, being at very high speeds on a track, warming up a racing machine, ect. He's also done a few car races over the years, including winning a GT class at the 12 hours of Abu Dhabi in a Ferrari 458.

 

TL;DR it should be no surprise that he finds this easy. If you put him back to back with Lewis, though, then he'll see that finding the final ~1 second is the real challenge.

[MikeV1987]

Not surprised, drivers have been saying it's easy to find the limits since these new regs came in.

Edited by MikeV1987, 09 December 2016 - 21:48.

[Seanspeed]

Yea, I believe it.  Especially in the best car on the grid by far.  

 

That said, that doesn't mean he'd be competitive.  Just that the cars aren't necessarily 'beasts' to drive, especially compared to riding a 250hp+ motorcycle around these same tracks.  

[Vesuvius]

Current cars are easy to drive and Mercedes of course the most easy ( he should have used manor). Next years cars are way harder to drive.

Edited by Vesuvius, 09 December 2016 - 22:15.

[Seanspeed]

Current cars are easy to drive and Mercedes of course the most easy ( he should have used manor). Next years cars are way harder to drive.

How so?  They're gonna have a whole bunch more downforce, and more mechanical grip.  

 

I'm sure the engine manufacturers will be working on power unit driveability as well. 

Edited by Seanspeed, 09 December 2016 - 22:16.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

To Jorge Lorenzo:

 

Driving the 2014 Mercedes car is easy obviously. Please drive the 2014 Ferrari car and you will realize the difference.

Edited by RYARLE, 09 December 2016 - 22:26.

[Marklar]

Current cars are easy to drive and Mercedes of course the most easy ( he should have used manor). Next years cars are way harder to drive.

From the pure driving aspect next yars cars will be more easier to drive because they will have more grip and downforce. Physically of course not.

 

From what I know they are using many  driving aids in these promotional driving events (heck, sometimes even in testing), so it's not that surprising that it felt easy anyway.

[CountDooku]

How so? They're gonna have a whole bunch more downforce, and more mechanical grip.

I'm sure the engine manufacturers will be working on power unit driveability as well.

Downforce cars are very hard to drive for a novice. You need to untrain your brain and learn that more speed actually means more grip, which is very hard to do. The cars will also be much more nervous at the limit.

Of course for an F1 driver at Pirelli racing speeds, rather than qually, it should be easier.

Edited by CountDooku, 09 December 2016 - 22:29.

[Vesuvius]

How so? They're gonna have a whole bunch more downforce, and more mechanical grip.

I'm sure the engine manufacturers will be working on power unit driveability as well.

Well physically harder to drive and possibly when you are tired you will make more mistakes.

Bottas just said that on Williams simulator their car have been 2-5 second faster (depending on track) than the 2016 one, that's without knowing how much pirelli make them faster.

Also it's more difficult to find that final tenth or two and when you push, you will make mistakes easier. Don't think Lorenzo is that close to F1drivers speed so easily.

Edited by Vesuvius, 09 December 2016 - 22:31.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Downforce cars are very hard to drive for a novice. You need to untrain your brain and learn that more speed actually means more grip, which is very hard to do. The cars will also be much more nervous at the limit.

Of course for an F1 driver at Pirelli racing speeds, rather than qually, it should be easier.

like a jet ski, no throttle no steering...

And I bet he didn't have full power from the PU and it was setup to be easy to drive - more forgiving in throttle maps and torque...

[Spillage]

Put yer money where yer mouth is, son. Easy to control, but easy to control whilst driving quickly?

[warp]

"It's relatively easy to make one lap fast with new tyres but the most difficult thing is to be one hour and a half at the same level, the same pace,"

 

At the same time, F1 drivers complain they have to lift and coast to preserve tyres/fuel.

 

So, while the casual but gifted individual finds it difficult to be fast over the course of a race, professional F1 drivers find it a bit boring and need cars that are more difficult to drive.

 

That means that while F1 cars may be "easy" to drive, but not any chump can become WDC.

[travbrad]

Also it's more difficult to find that final tenth or two and when you push, you will make mistakes easier. Don't think Lorenzo is that close to F1drivers speed so easily.

 

Yeah there's a difference between "easy to drive" and "easy to drive fast at the top level".  There are a bunch of GP2/F3 or even lower level F1 drivers who will basically drive for free, but there's a reason the top teams pay the top drivers huge amounts of money to drive for them instead of hiring the cheap guys.

 

That being said it probably is easier for someone (especially someone who has done time in simulators, at tracks, knows basic racing lines, etc) to hop in a F1 car and get within a few/several seconds of a F1 driver than doing the same on a MotoGP bike.  

Edited by travbrad, 09 December 2016 - 23:06.

[HeadFirst]

Control? Perhaps for someone used to speed. It's being to RACE the car that is difficult.

[Ickx]

It is pretty easy to say you are competative driving around alone. Next to a F1 driver I believe he would find it more difficult. But of course he have petrol in the blood already. 

[Starchild]

He said that it was much harder to drive F2 car which he tried two days before... I wonder which F2 car he drove? Old 2009-2012 F2 car? Or it was GP2 car but he wrongly nemed it F2? 

[HoldenRT]

F1 is so manufactured these days.  You could see it in those final few laps of the final race of the season.  The teams try to decide everything and the actual train of racing cars was like a parade lap.  You can argue Lewis did that on purpose but it's always like that, it's just that in this case it was more exaggerated.  Rookies can come straight in and be at the level.  In a top level sport, it would usually take a rookie years to come to terms with the experienced guys who have been doing it along time.  The reason it takes a few years, is because it's HARD to be a top level pro.  Or.. it's supposed to be.  And certain driver fans can't even tell the difference and argue about who the best driver is, like it actually means something.

 

Rookies can come straight in, all the drivers don't drive to the limit and basically.. the teams and strategy decide nearly everything.  Qualifying means something, and the start means something, but it also comes down a bit to luck of a good strategy.  Otherwise good drivers in the same car will drive similar pace because they aren't allowed to go faster.

 

The best drivers DO matter, but only a small amount compared to what they used to.  The majority of the time they are bottlenecked by something else.  So it makes the difference between the best and worst a lot smaller.

 

MotoGP is a lot different obviously.  So it's easy to see where a MotoGP driver could come in and immediately spot the difference.  In a MotoGP race, a rider can fall off at any moment, even if he is leading.  The gaps in time are a lot more exaggerated prompting people to call the top drivers aliens, because their speed advantage actually matters.

 

In F1 if you beat your teammate by a tenth it's a big thing.  When there is some water on the track and they make an error, they cry of aquaplaning.  Even if it's a driver error and their front wheel touched the kerb in the wrong place.  The drivers are very good but it's a little bit too easy for them.  You can tell on the days where it's actually hard (bad tyres, bad conditions) because they will whinge and moan and there will be unforced errors. 

 

There should always be unforced errors.. that means they actually have to push to a certain limit and be afraid to go over it.  No one wants to watch a basketball game when both teams shoot 80/80 fg, 40-40ft and they win 189-187.  Racing should be about being a fight to stay on the track.  A fight against the track the same way that a golfer competes against the golf course.  But then while the drivers compete against the track, they also compete against each other.  With big risk and big reward.  That's when racing is at it's best.  Not when every single overtaking move sticks and no one ever DNF's.  And they drive to a stopwatch and the team decides who will win by who they give the lucky strategy too.

Edited by HoldenRT, 10 December 2016 - 09:14.

[Clatter]

I find so many of the comments here amusing. Seems many of you feel the need to protect F1 because someone has said the cars are easy to drive. What is it your afraid of?

[AustinF1]

F1 cars are easy to control on a game-Yes

F1 cars are easy to control in real life-No

He drove the car, too, and said it was much easier to control than an F2 car.

[readonly]

I find so many of the comments here amusing. Seems many of you feel the need to protect F1 because someone has said the cars are easy to drive. What is it your afraid of?

Very easy: they earn money from F1. They are either F1 insiders or specialized journalists or they are in whatever job related to it directly or directly. Not all of us are pure impartial judges :-O

[Anja]

I find so many of the comments here amusing. Seems many of you feel the need to protect F1 because someone has said the cars are easy to drive. What is it your afraid of?

 

Of the inevitable comments how F1 is now ruined made mostly by people blinded by nostalgia. You know, the usual state of any discussion about modern F1. 

[ensign14]

[HeadFirst]

F1 is so manufactured these days.  You could see it in those final few laps of the final race of the season.  The teams try to decide everything and the actual train of racing cars was like a parade lap.  You can argue Lewis did that on purpose but it's always like that, it's just that in this case it was more exaggerated.  Rookies can come straight in and be at the level.  In a top level sport, it would usually take a rookie years to come to terms with the experienced guys who have been doing it along time.  The reason it takes a few years, is because it's HARD to be a top level pro.  Or.. it's supposed to be.  And certain driver fans can't even tell the difference and argue about who the best driver is, like it actually means something.

 

Rookies can come straight in, all the drivers don't drive to the limit and basically.. the teams and strategy decide nearly everything.  Qualifying means something, and the start means something, but it also comes down a bit to luck of a good strategy.  Otherwise good drivers in the same car will drive similar pace because they aren't allowed to go faster.

 

The best drivers DO matter, but only a small amount compared to what they used to.  The majority of the time they are bottlenecked by something else.  So it makes the difference between the best and worst a lot smaller.

 

MotoGP is a lot different obviously.  So it's easy to see where a MotoGP driver could come in and immediately spot the difference.  In a MotoGP race, a rider can fall off at any moment, even if he is leading.  The gaps in time are a lot more exaggerated prompting people to call the top drivers aliens, because their speed advantage actually matters.

 

In F1 if you beat your teammate by a tenth it's a big thing.  When there is some water on the track and they make an error, they cry of aquaplaning.  Even if it's a driver error and their front wheel touched the kerb in the wrong place.  The drivers are very good but it's a little bit too easy for them.  You can tell on the days where it's actually hard (bad tyres, bad conditions) because they will whinge and moan and there will be unforced errors. 

 

There should always be unforced errors.. that means they actually have to push to a certain limit and be afraid to go over it.  No one wants to watch a basketball game when both teams shoot 80/80 fg, 40-40ft and they win 189-187.  Racing should be about being a fight to stay on the track.  A fight against the track the same way that a golfer competes against the golf course.  But then while the drivers compete against the track, they also compete against each other.  With big risk and big reward.  That's when racing is at it's best.  Not when every single overtaking move sticks and no one ever DNF's.  And they drive to a stopwatch and the team decides who will win by who they give the lucky strategy too.

 

That (bolded) is simply not true. In the team sports I watch on a regular basis (MLB, NHL, NFL) rookies can have a tremendous impact on the success of the teams they join. Even in individual sports such as skiing, youngsters can have great success. Mikaela Schiffren of the USA scored her first World Cup podium at 16, won her first race at 17, and now has 3 World Championships and an Olympic Gold medal at the age of 20.

[Anderis]

That (bolded) is simply not true. In the team sports I watch on a regular basis (MLB, NHL, NFL) rookies can have a tremendous impact on the success of the teams they join. Even in individual sports such as skiing, youngsters can have great success. Mikaela Schiffren of the USA scored her first World Cup podium at 16, won her first race at 17, and now has 3 World Championships and an Olympic Gold medal at the age of 20.

Yeah, I was about to write the same. Domen Prevc is currently the leader of the Ski Jumping World Cup and he is only 17. Cristiano Ronaldo was already one of the best players of Euro 2004 at the age of 19. I think Francesc Fabregas managed to become Arsenal's key player even before he turned 18.

 

Sportsmen have different learning curves. Some need more time to unlock their potential, but some can be a threat to the best from the very beginning of their professional careers. I'm not sure I've ever followed a sport in which things like some inexperienced teenagers with exceptional talent suddenly arising at the top didn't happen. They all do their sports from childhood. They often have something around 10 years of experience in their discipline before turning a pro. The fact that they were not competing at this level becomes irrelevant since they spent hell a lot of time in competing in the same thing at the level below.

[HP]

He said that it was much harder to drive F2 car which he tried two days before... I wonder which F2 car he drove? Old 2009-2012 F2 car? Or it was GP2 car but he wrongly nemed it F2? 

He should try one of the worse handling F1 cars at the back grid, then he won't so easy say they handle easy. Such things as when the car over and under-steers in the same corner, that's when it gets tricky.

[Clatter]

Very easy: they earn money from F1. They are either F1 insiders or specialized journalists or they are in whatever job related to it directly or directly. Not all of us are pure impartial judges :-O

So your saying that the defensive posts in this thread are all from insiders?

[pingu666]

it makes sense, the easier a car handles the faster you will be, and not eat the tyres, moreso on downforce car too

[quaint]

I imagine the car was setup to be as driver friendly as possible. Nowhere near as aggressive or on the limit as is possible.

 

Or perhaps the current cars are simply just easy. Ever wonder why team mates in the top 10 are often less than tenth apart in the quali?

[markelov74]

Or perhaps the current cars are simply just easy. Ever wonder why team mates in the top 10 are often less than tenth apart in the quali?

 

Probably because their the best 22 drivers in the world out of the 7.4 billion in the world?

[muramasa]

piece of cake?

[PlatenGlass]

Probably because their the best 22 drivers in the world out of the 7.4 billion in the world?

Or the best 22 out of the 220* drivers who have actually had the opportunity to display their talent to the extent that they might get to Formula One if good enough!

Anyway, I see this as a non-story. F1 cars are not designed to be hard to control, nor, as far as I understand, are the rules designed in any such way. So why should they be hard to control? The skill is in being able to drive them around a track faster than the other drivers, something which you can't get any idea of by just driving around on your own. It's like saying a football is easy to kick.

*Random estimate, but probably in the right ballpark

[milestone 11]

Dishonest thread title and OP, here's how he concludes.

©Autosport
However, he conceded that while being quick over one run was one thing, doing so over a grand prix distance was a different challenge entirely.

"It's relatively easy to make one lap fast with new tyres but the most difficult thing is to be one hour and a half at the same level, the same pace," he said.

"This separates the rookies, the non-professional Formula 1 drivers, from the professional ones.

"Normally motorcycle riders when they get into a car they are relatively fast relatively quick, but the next level is to stay one and a half hours with very high temperature, not losing concentration and stay consistent during so many laps."

Lorenzo also pointed to how the plethora of controls on an F1 steering wheel makes life more complicated than for a MotoGP rider.

"In MotoGP, we just have two switches, one for the traction control and another one for the engine brake," he said.

"But in Formula 1 you have 30 or 40 buttons.

"I just used two or three, but to know how to use the rest in a long race is one of the most complicated things compared to 20 or 30 years ago when F1 cars just had the steering wheel and the gearbox.

"Now it's the most difficult thing for a Formula 1 driver compared to the past."

Edited by milestone 11, 10 December 2016 - 17:23.

[AustinF1]

Dishonest thread title and OP, here's how he concludes.

©Autosport
However, he conceded that while being quick over one run was one thing, doing so over a grand prix distance was a different challenge entirely.

"It's relatively easy to make one lap fast with new tyres but the most difficult thing is to be one hour and a half at the same level, the same pace," he said.

"This separates the rookies, the non-professional Formula 1 drivers, from the professional ones.

"Normally motorcycle riders when they get into a car they are relatively fast relatively quick, but the next level is to stay one and a half hours with very high temperature, not losing concentration and stay consistent during so many laps."

Lorenzo also pointed to how the plethora of controls on an F1 steering wheel makes life more complicated than for a MotoGP rider.

"In MotoGP, we just have two switches, one for the traction control and another one for the engine brake," he said.

"But in Formula 1 you have 30 or 40 buttons.

"I just used two or three, but to know how to use the rest in a long race is one of the most complicated things compared to 20 or 30 years ago when F1 cars just had the steering wheel and the gearbox.

"Now it's the most difficult thing for a Formula 1 driver compared to the past."

I don't think any of that renders the op or thread title "dishonest". 

[readonly]

So your saying that the defensive posts in this thread are all from insiders?

Not all of course, but you have to weight in that it is very likely that they are here defending their income.

[Clatter]

Not all of course, but you have to weight in that it is very likely that they are here defending their income.

So you believe the defensive posts are because those forum members derive thier income from F1, and they would lose income if people think the cars are easy to drive?

[milestone 11]

I don't think any of that renders the op or thread title "dishonest". 

I can edit to duplicitous if you prefer.

[AustinF1]

I can edit to duplicitous if you prefer.

Not much different.

[Peat]

So you believe the defensive posts are because those forum members derive thier income from F1, and they would lose income if people think the cars are easy to drive?

 

*sigh* I suppose I had best come clean. I've been rumbled.

I am, of course, Theodore Slotover Esq.

[readonly]

So you believe the defensive posts are because those forum members derive thier income from F1, and they would lose income if people think the cars are easy to drive?

I am suggesting that it is very likely that they are here commenting with a biased view in order to decelerate F1's decline.

[Clatter]

I am suggesting that it is very likely that they are here commenting with a biased view in order to decelerate F1's decline.

Id love to know how that would work then. Don't believe any forum carries that sort of weight.

[Fatgadget]

Just reminded me of Niki Lauda for some reason..

[Atreiu]

Goes hand in hand with drivers saying these most recent cars aren't the most thrilling.

Alonso said they were jumbos, not fighter jets.

Edited by Atreiu, 10 December 2016 - 18:27.

[Slowersofterdumber]

I don´t understand the defensive attitude towards this. He´s right. Even those who say he should have tried a Manor don´t have much of a point. The days of real dogs on the back of the grid are long gone. This is how they used to drive...