19 replies to this topic

[Wirra]

Quite a few GTOs had/have a reverse position perspex (?) scoop, similar to the two cabin air intakes on the bonnet, attached to the upper portion of the rear window. I had always assumed they were to weather protect an opening in the window which provided some ventilation for the cabin.

 

I have not been able to source a photo showing this in detail however I have noticed the position and size of the appendage varies somewhat from GTO to GTO. I'm starting to now think they might have been fitted to provide some kind on aerodynamic flow which clears moisture from the window.

 

The 330 GTO pictured has two, much wider, appendages which tend to support an 'aero' purpose.

 

Can anyone provide some images and/or insight for the attachments on the 250 GTOs. Thanks

 

 

 

 

[Odseybod]

Don't know the technical answer but to judge from this pic from the 1963 TT practice, it's not necessarily a period feature.

 

uploading images

[sabrejet]

It provides an exit for cabin air. I also suspect it helps to prevent the rear window blowing out. 

[Lee Nicolle]

My thoughts as well. Once upon a time competitors had to race with the drivers window down so they could give hand signals,, as well as ventilate the driver from excess fumes etc. Which in turn creates quite a deal of cabin pressure and it seems those windows are perspex or similar which blows out quite easily.

As far as I am concerned having the window down still is a very sensible idea. The advent of window nets though precludes hand signals.

On a closed car if you have a perspex  third to half window with a small turn out at the end you get frash air without too much excess air inside the car.

[StanBarrett2]

Quite a few GTOs had/have a reverse position perspex (?) scoop, similar to the two cabin air intakes on the bonnet, attached to the upper portion of the rear window. I had always assumed they were to weather protect an opening in the window which provided some ventilation for the cabin.

 

I have not been able to source a photo showing this in detail however I have noticed the position and size of the appendage varies somewhat from GTO to GTO. I'm starting to now think they might have been fitted to provide some kind on aerodynamic flow which clears moisture from the window.

 

 

 

Tony Matthews' cutaways (both) of the 250 GTO show this air outlet scoop.  No explanation in any article text accompanying the cutaway drawings. Seems like they may

have been to draw warm air out of the cabin.

 

macoran

[arttidesco]

Of the six GTO rear screens I have photos of only ...

 

 

.... #3505 does not appear to have this appendage.

 

The rest including ...

 

 

#3387,

 

 

#3527,

 

 

#3767,

 

 

#4115,

 

 

and #4757 (Courtesy Geoffrey Horton) all have an outlet.

Edited by arttidesco, 14 December 2016 - 04:02.

[Doug Nye]

Cabin air extraction or escape vent - you don't need a heater in a GTO - racing or rallying in warmer climes would see plenty of hot air generated from the firewall bulkhead and gearbox/clutch housing, transmission tunnel etc, plus the twin exhaust-pipe routing on each side, close beneath the cabin floor .  A 3-litre V12 singing away at 7,000rpm would heat a fair-sized bungalow quite nicely... It certainly heats up a tiny two-seat cabin space with parcel shelf over back-axle just behind your kidneys.  Conversely, a GTO when used just for mimsing around amongst everyday traffic tends to be perfectly habitable.  In sun-soaked conditions which would almost certainly see any Jaguar boil, the Ferrari temperature gauge just sits steady and takes no notice.  No - that's not because the Italian gauge is busted - it's because the well-developed V12 has that fantastic Jekyll and Hyde capability - equally at home, touring or competing. I wouldn't say no sweat, but not much in one mode, converting into plenty in the other...

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 14 December 2016 - 09:08.

[Alan Cox]

Scanning through the photos in Jess Pourret's and Anthony Pritchard's books on the GTO, it's clear that the early cars didn't have them fitted as standard, but they were appearing on some of them later in '62 (e.g. John Surtees at the TT and the Rodriguez brothers at the Paris 1000kms, although the Surtees' car didn't have the vent in June when it appeared at Mallory Park). As Odseybod's photo shows, Graham Hill's car hadn't yet acquired one by August 1963

[bradbury west]

It has been a long time since I have heard that particularly favourite Bod word used, Doug.
Roger Lund

[Doug Nye]

Which one - 'bungalow'?  Or 'heater'? Or 'mimsing'?

 

Just interested to know... 

 

DCN

[bradbury west]

Mimsers, used for weekend motorists.
RL

[bradbury west]

OT a little, but still GTO based, a GTO64. I was intrigued at the Revival a couple of years ago to see at the rear of a GTO64 roof panel (I am sure it was not an LM) a V shaped cleft a couple of inches from the rear edge. The gap/opening was a couple of inches deep, front to rear, and almost full width, and obviously open at the bottom. I did not have chance to see if it aided ventilation, or to enquire whether it aided aero effect through the air at speed. It is the only 64 model which I have seen like that. I have a photograph of it here somewhere.
Does anyone have any views on this feature?
Roger Lund

[sabrejet]

Aero. I suspect it's working like a spoiler (wing leading edge spoiler that is), to excite airflow and get it to attach longer at the rear. I've noted it, but I can't recall which car (though likely to be Anthony Bamford's?)

[bradbury west]

Ultimatecarpage has a photo showing chassis 5571 with a roof like the one to which I referred.
Roger Lund

[Odseybod]

The same useful site (thanks for pointing me towards it, Roger) also has some 64 GTOs without the roof vent/spoiler, just an unbroken roof panel. Prancing horses for courses?

 

Without dragging this even further off topic, must say I coveted this later version of the GTO from the moment it appeared, when it instantly made the original look rather old hat (OK, sacrilege, I know), though I wouldn't want to reverse either into a tight parking spot with that huge rear-three-quarters blind spot (boringly practical, even in my fantasies!). Nearest I got to ownership was having one in my '60s slot car stable (in Maranello colours, of course), alongside a Piper-green original GTO that I'm ashamed to say became a sort of modsports racer with cut-away rear arches and huge sticky slicks. Oh dear. 

 

[Doug Nye]

Here's the NART GTO/64 with roof lip airfoil section plainly visible...:

 

https://revslib.stan...log/mb160cs7138

 

Here's the Maranello Concessionaires GTO/64 - with the roof lip airfoil section just visible (follow the central blue stripe over the roof):

 

https://revslib.stan...log/dz558zw0073

 

And here's the Tavanao/Grossman '64 Le Mans GTO/64 - without the roof lip airfoil:

 

https://revslib.stan...log/xc858zw0111

 

Some featured it, some did not.

 

All Photos from the Revs Digital Library, of course...

 

DCN

[raceannouncer2003]

Here's the NART GTO/64 with roof lip airfoil section plainly visible...:

 

https://revslib.stan...log/mb160cs7138

 

 

 

Also visible here...

 

 

Vince H.

[arttidesco]

Here's the Maranello Concessionaires GTO/64 - with the roof lip airfoil section just visible (follow the central blue stripe over the roof):

 

https://revslib.stan...log/dz558zw0073

 

Some featured it, some did not.

 

All Photos from the Revs Digital Library, of course...

 

DCN

 

 

A more recent pic of the GTO/64 rebodied '63 chassis #4399GT.

[AJB]

Call me a miserable old cynic if you like, but I think the 1964 restyle was introduced solely to try and convince the CSI that the 250LM really was just an evolution of the 250GTO. 

[arttidesco]

Call me a miserable old cynic if you like, but I think the 1964 restyle was introduced solely to try and convince the CSI that the 250LM really was just an evolution of the 250GTO. 

 

I will, but only because my understanding was that Ferrari considered the 250LM was a production version / evolution of the 3 litre 250P and that the 250GTO64 was only developed after homologation of the 250LM had been refused 

Edited by arttidesco, 16 December 2016 - 14:47.