10 replies to this topic

[HistoryFan]

Everyone knows how interesting the fight between Senna/Prost was in the late 80s.

But other than Rosberg/Hamilton they hadn't much fights on the track together. Am I wrong?

 

Alongside the 2 collisions in Suzuka - were there any other great battles between them on the track?

[Lights]

The one I have in mind is their battle at Silverstone in '93.

[chunder27]

If you do your research chap you will often find clips of Senna making it much harder for Prost to get past than just about anyone else, there were countless occasions when Alain got his customary slow start and then fought through the field only to encounter a recalcitrant Senna in a Lotus who would turn the boost up at times to keep in front, notably at Silverstone in either 86 or 85 I think when it was so obvious he did it he literally dropped  seconds a lap afterwards in his desperation to make the end of the race as his fuel comp showed that messing about him cost him lots of gas. Imola 88, Estoril 88, lots of occasions.

 

Then after then you had Alain suspecting probably rightly that Honda were favouring Senna, if you watch the Ryder interview with him he mentions a discussion with a top Honda man who basically admits the fact that the engineers from Honda preferred Ayrton. A tricky situation and one that you could understand would annoy Alain who suggested McLaren sign him in the first place!!

 

He also did it to Schumacher in his early career too. Meaning the tough battles. But I think he saw the young pup in Michael, not a real rival until 93/4.

 

He was very good at reading his rivals and understanding which ones were a threat, and he used Alain as a motivation for his entire career really, hence his comments about wanting him to come back at Imola, he missed him and needed him around to beat as a rival, he knew Benetton were cheating and found it hard to race against that.

[Ibsey]

If you do your research chap you will often find clips of Senna making it much harder for Prost to get past than just about anyone else, there were countless occasions when Alain got his customary slow start and then fought through the field only to encounter a recalcitrant Senna in a Lotus who would turn the boost up at times to keep in front, notably at Silverstone in either 86 or 85 I think when it was so obvious he did it he literally dropped  seconds a lap afterwards in his desperation to make the end of the race as his fuel comp showed that messing about him cost him lots of gas. Imola 88, Estoril 88, lots of occasions.

 

 

Imola 1985 was another such occasion. I would draw attention to Senna's defensive driving between 5.43 to 5.47. Scary to think what would have happened had Prost committed up the inside... 

 

 

 

Montreal 86 and France 88 were my favorite battles between the two.

 

 

He was very good at reading his rivals and understanding which ones were a threat, and he used Alain as a motivation for his entire career really, hence his comments about wanting him to come back at Imola, he missed him and needed him around to beat as a rival, he knew Benetton were cheating and found it hard to race against that.

 

 

I agree with everything in your post apart from the bold bit, I would have said Senna mistakenly thought Benetton were cheating. I know many out there will disagree,however I've done a vast amount of research on the subject over the last year and posted my all findings here;

 

http://gprejects.com...=4612&start=120

 

Since this isn't the place to discuss that particular subject I would welcome a discussion in that thread or a new one here on the subject.

Edited by Ibsey, 16 December 2016 - 13:36.

[HistoryFan]

yes but I was more looking for battles between them in their championship years at McLaren when they were racing together in one team

[Tim Murray]

I remember the 1989 German Grand Prix as being a pretty tight struggle between the two, until Prost - in a very narrow lead with two laps to go - lost 6th gear, which gifted the race to Senna.

[PlatenGlass]

yes but I was more looking for battles between them in their championship years at McLaren when they were racing together in one team

In 1988, Senna past Prost for the lead in Canada, after Prost passed Senna at the start. It wasn't that exciting - Senna stalked Prost for a bit and then passed him.

France has already been mentioned. One of the best battles over the two years, where Prost passed Senna to win.

At Hungary, Prost qualified quite far down, but once he'd cleared the pack he caught Senna, and briefly passed him into turn 1 before going too wide to keep the position.

At Portugal, Senna squeezed Prost towards the wall while Prost past him. Not much of a battle though. That was at the start of lap 2 and Senna went backwards after that.

In Japan, Senna caught and passed Prost after ending up in the midfield following a terrible start.

They had much less to do with each other in 1989, with Senna generally ahead when running problem free. The was the infamous pass at San Marino that led to Prost being annoyed with Senna. Prost stayed close for a while in that race before ultimately falling back and then spinning (I think he had brake problems). They were running fairly close at Silverstone when Senna spun off with a gearbox problem. Hockenheim has been mentioned where Prost lost the lead with a couple of laps to go. Prost got the lead initially after he had the slightly less slow of the two awful McLaren pitstops, but it was fairly close between them in the first stint. And then obviously Japan.

[HistoryFan]

okay thank you. So it's sounds like Prost wasn't that bad in the direct battles...

[jtremlett]

...I agree with everything in your post apart from the bold bit, I would have said Senna mistakenly thought Benetton were cheating. I know many out there will disagree,however I've done a vast amount of research on the subject over the last year and posted my all findings here;
 
http://gprejects.com...=4612&start=120
 
Since this isn't the place to discuss that particular subject I would welcome a discussion in that thread or a new one here on the subject.

Yes probably a subject for a different thread but somewhere on here it does already to point to the excellent articles on linkedin by former Benetton engineer Willem Toet, that I don't see referenced in your link (apologies if I've missed it) explaining how Benetton traction control in 1994 worked and was legal (https://www.linkedin...=mp-reader-card) and also his take on the refuelling fire at Hockenheim that year (https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/f1-broken-rules-fire-willem-toet?trk=mp-reader-card).

Jonathan

[Ibsey]

Yes probably a subject for a different thread but somewhere on here it does already to point to the excellent articles on linkedin by former Benetton engineer Willem Toet, that I don't see referenced in your link (apologies if I've missed it) explaining how Benetton traction control in 1994 worked and was legal (https://www.linkedin...=mp-reader-card) and also his take on the refuelling fire at Hockenheim that year (https://www.linkedin...=mp-reader-card).

Jonathan

 

Both those articles are actually referenced in the middle of page 2 and were what prompted me to start researching the Benetton allegations back in May.  

[COUGAR508]

I seem to recall that they had quite a vigorous tussle at Hockenheim in 1991 (although not for the lead of the race), which ended with Prost being squeezed out at one of the chicanes, and stalling his engine.