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Liberty to "turn F1 into Super Bowl"


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#951 AustinF1

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 18:16

Friday is my favourite day when attending a Grand Prix. You can walk round the track watching the cars at different vantage points with so much anticipation!

Yeah Friday is the best for me.



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#952 Enzo308

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 18:16

Well that won't help the circuits get the fans in. What circuits get a full crowd on a Friday?

 

i think he said, they are looking to cut Fridays on places where lack of attendance is a factor (Or something like that)...as much as i like following Friday practice, F1 (and NASCAR/Indy), it really makes sense to drop Friday's. This years Austin race is a perfect example; no running made for a great race, as the teams didn't have as much data as usual. cutting out friday's for 14 of the 21 races would save teams two weeks on the road; thats alot of $$ and wear and tear on the teams.....



#953 AustinF1

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 19:01

i think he said, they are looking to cut Fridays on places where lack of attendance is a factor (Or something like that)...as much as i like following Friday practice, F1 (and NASCAR/Indy), it really makes sense to drop Friday's. This years Austin race is a perfect example; no running made for a great race, as the teams didn't have as much data as usual. cutting out friday's for 14 of the 21 races would save teams two weeks on the road; thats alot of $$ and wear and tear on the teams.....

 

He said:

 

...only a limited number including a Friday of testing, probably at venues that traditionally pull a full crowd every day.

 

Those Fridays could also replace the current four days of in-season testing...

 

As for saving the teams a lot of $$ and wear and tear, I don't think it would save them that much. Most of the cost and wear & tear comes from getting there and getting home, not from being there another night. And Friday night is when the teams typically get to enjoy a little bit of the nightlife of the town they happen to be in before things get much more serious & intense the next two days. I'm sure many team members wouldn't want that taken away.

 

If they do go ahead and do away with Fridays, I'd hope it wouldn't sacrifice too much track time. Maybe something like two 90-minute FP sessions on Saturday, and then Qualifying and the GP on Sunday ... or FP1, FP2, and Qualifying on Saturday, with the GP on Sunday.

 

I also think the Austin race this year may have been a bit of an anomaly even among races that didn't have a lot of Friday running. We've seen many weekends with compromised FP1 & 2 running, but most times it doesn't drastically affect qualifying or the race.


Edited by AustinF1, 16 November 2018 - 19:06.


#954 F1 Mike

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 19:02

If Fridays are dropped then the knock-on effect is that 'weekend' ticket prices would have to be reduced or it's the fan that loses out.
And if they're reduced then it's the circuits that lose out.

So it's either the circuits or the fans who get screwed...

Sound BAD to me

#955 Clatter

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 19:06

Mexico City gets a very big crowd on Friday, as does Montreal. Silverstone is usually pretty good too, right? Who else?

 


Silverstone gets a big crowd, but by no means full.

#956 Clatter

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 19:07

If Fridays are dropped then the knock-on effect is that 'weekend' ticket prices would have to be reduced or it's the fan that loses out.
And if they're reduced then it's the circuits that lose out.

So it's either the circuits or the fans who get screwed...

Sound BAD to me

 


You can be fairly certain Liberty wont be dropping their fee.

#957 AustinF1

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 19:22

If Fridays are dropped then the knock-on effect is that 'weekend' ticket prices would have to be reduced or it's the fan that loses out.
And if they're reduced then it's the circuits that lose out.

So it's either the circuits or the fans who get screwed...

Sound BAD to me

If the fans get screwed, the circuits will get screwed by it too, eventually.

 

F1 prices are too high already. F1 fans want MORE for our money, not LESS. Can it really be so difficult for Chase Carey, John Malone, et al, to understand? Carey talks about creating more value for the fans at the track during the weekend, and then follows it up by talking about reducing F1 track time during those weekends. Unreal. Typical corporate doublespeak bullshit. 


Edited by AustinF1, 16 November 2018 - 19:27.


#958 RacingGreen

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 19:29

Silverstone gets a big crowd, but by no means full.

 

Don't expect to see Silverstone on any future calendars, "We expect to replace a few existing races where we inherited unattractive agreements, with new events or agreements, that are better for racing and provide more value." 

 

How Vietnam is good for racing is beyond me but it obviously offers the rights owners more value.



#959 AustinF1

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 19:30

Don't expect to see Silverstone on any future calendars, "We expect to replace a few existing races where we inherited unattractive agreements, with new events or agreements, that are better for racing and provide more value." 

 

How Vietnam is good for racing is beyond me but it obviously offers the rights owners more value.

Yeah, so which tracks are the ones where LM has inherited unattractive terms?


Edited by AustinF1, 16 November 2018 - 19:31.


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#960 Clatter

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 19:43

Don't expect to see Silverstone on any future calendars, "We expect to replace a few existing races where we inherited unattractive agreements, with new events or agreements, that are better for racing and provide more value." 

 

How Vietnam is good for racing is beyond me but it obviously offers the rights owners more value.

 


Lets wait and see on this one.

#961 Clatter

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 19:44

Yeah, so which tracks are the ones where LM has inherited unattractive terms?

 


Monaco.

#962 noikeee

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 19:46

I'm always amused when people are shocked that Liberty are doing things that the fans dislike. They're running a business. It's their job to exploit as much cash as possible out of us.



#963 AustinF1

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 19:50

Monaco.

Yeah I don't see that one going away. 



#964 AustinF1

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 19:51

I'm always amused when people are shocked that Liberty are doing things that the fans dislike. They're running a business. It's their job to exploit as much cash as possible out of us.

I'm not shocked. I was always one of the people telling everyone to be careful what you wish for. I've always been skeptical about these guys.

 

Doesn't make me like it any more when they suggest stupid **** though.



#965 Clatter

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 19:52

Yeah I don't see that one going away. 

 


Me neither, but its the only one that Liberty doesn't get paid for.

#966 AustinF1

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 19:56

Grand Prix Diary @GrandPrixDiary
Replying to @EliGP
Mr Bratches was muttering something about holding the British Grand Prix somewhere else other than Silverstone. Phnom Penh perhaps?
 
Pablo Elizalde  @EliGP
Replying to @GrandPrixDiary
I mean, technically the options are endless.

DsIdg4WWoAMSaaL.jpg



#967 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 19:57

I'm always amused when people are shocked that Liberty are doing things that the fans dislike. They're running a business. It's their job to exploit as much cash as possible out of us.

 

And I continue to think they could get a lot more if they went about it in a way catering to the hardcore fans like us, in a manner which would also be interesting to the more causal yet to be sucked in paying public, it is not mutually exclusive.

 

:cool:



#968 AustinF1

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 19:57

Me neither, but its the only one that Liberty doesn't get paid for.

Yeah I dunno what circuits he's referring to. Maybe he's just trying to walk back the talk about a profit-sharing deal in Miami.



#969 AustinF1

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 20:00

And I continue to think they could get a lot more if they went about it in a way catering to the hardcore fans like us, in a manner which would also be interesting to the more causal yet to be sucked in paying public, it is not mutually exclusive.

 

:cool:

This is exactly right imho. They should be bending over backward to make the product more appealing to the people like us who have already introduced new people to the sport and will continue to do so in the future if the product is a good one for the right price. That's how you grow a business. You don't do it by cutting back on delivery of a flawed product.



#970 Clatter

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 20:15

Yeah I dunno what circuits he's referring to. Maybe he's just trying to walk back the talk about a profit-sharing deal in Miami.

 


I suspect they don't want to be seen as soft and are preparing the ground to show the circuits they will play hardball. I think the sport will lose out massively.

#971 RacingGreen

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 20:22

Yeah, so which tracks are the ones where LM has inherited unattractive terms?

 

My understanding was that Azerbaijan, Russia, Bahrain and Abu Dhabi pay the most, and that the traditional European venues get a discount. 



#972 SonGoku

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 20:26

They could scrap most fridays, I never understand why F1 broadcast a circuit with empty stands all over the world, it's such a bad look for the sport you are trying to sell.



#973 Clatter

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 20:36

They could scrap most fridays, I never understand why F1 broadcast a circuit with empty stands all over the world, it's such a bad look for the sport you are trying to sell.

 


And what do those that actually attend a GP weekend get in return?

Edited by Clatter, 16 November 2018 - 20:37.


#974 BalanceUT

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 20:42

And I continue to think they could get a lot more if they went about it in a way catering to the hardcore fans like us, in a manner which would also be interesting to the more causal yet to be sucked in paying public, it is not mutually exclusive.

 

:cool:

Thing is, whenever we have a discussion on these forums about what would make F1 better, more interesting to us, arguably hard core fans, we can't come to anything remotely resembling agreement. So, there's no possibility of creating something that even satisfies all the hard core fans. We could create something that satisfies you, but what about another person here? Doubtless, there are people here who would love for it to all look and sound like 1969, complete with the roughly 5% probability of death at each race. But, if that's the way it is, there are certainly many people here who would turn off the TV and ignore it, as I did in the mid 70s. 



#975 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 20:47

Thing is, whenever we have a discussion on these forums about what would make F1 better, more interesting to us, arguably hard core fans, we can't come to anything remotely resembling agreement. So, there's no possibility of creating something that even satisfies all the hard core fans. We could create something that satisfies you, but what about another person here? Doubtless, there are people here who would love for it to all look and sound like 1969, complete with the roughly 5% probability of death at each race. But, if that's the way it is, there are certainly many people here who would turn off the TV and ignore it, as I did in the mid 70s. 

 

I agree 100% that we can not agree here, meaning no matter what it is a losing battle... As I said earlier, I am obviously one of the 'shrinking group', and as such feel entitlement about 'my championship' - F1 have been mismanaged for +30 years if not longer, you do NOT need a lot of races, one of my parts to the 'soul' is less less is better ( have a ready list of races they can get rid of immediately.

 

I know I am the Dinosaur, so my grumblings and wants will not been heeded, just a shame since I am convinced of my overall plan being the one which could make everything great again.

 

So I have no expectations that 'my championship' will ever be even remotely returning, which not stop me from popping up when ever Liberty or who else is the owner of the sport once again make decisions, which will invariably make the sport less mainstream, rather than more. This thread is likely not the one where I should argue all my (brilliant) suggested solutions, pretty sure I have bored a lot of posters with them already repeatedly.

 

:cool:



#976 Fatgadget

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 21:00

Monaco.

Monaco is special. The rules applied to it do not apply to any other circuit...Much the same as Ferrari! :p



#977 Fatgadget

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 21:05

 

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Replying to @EliGP
Mr Bratches was muttering something about holding the British Grand Prix somewhere else other than Silverstone. Phnom Penh perhaps?
 
Pablo Elizalde  @EliGP
Replying to @GrandPrixDiary
I mean, technically the options are endless.

DsIdg4WWoAMSaaL.jpg

 

Wonderful.....Lets paint the world red again just like we did back in the late  1800s eh! :rolleyes:..And you think the majority of those countries that kicked out the Brits for whatever will allow such a travesty  over those that perished fighting for their freedom?..You are trully naive man...Unless of course you are just having a giraffe! :lol:


Edited by Fatgadget, 16 November 2018 - 21:16.


#978 AustinF1

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 21:17

Thing is, whenever we have a discussion on these forums about what would make F1 better, more interesting to us, arguably hard core fans, we can't come to anything remotely resembling agreement. So, there's no possibility of creating something that even satisfies all the hard core fans. We could create something that satisfies you, but what about another person here? Doubtless, there are people here who would love for it to all look and sound like 1969, complete with the roughly 5% probability of death at each race. But, if that's the way it is, there are certainly many people here who would turn off the TV and ignore it, as I did in the mid 70s. 

There's more than one way of going about it (creating a formula to have good racing). I'm certain that most of us would be ecstatic to have good racing even if it meant we didn't get our own personal 'dream formula'.



#979 PayasYouRace

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 21:32

Wonderful.....Lets paint the world red again just like we did back in the late  1800s eh! :rolleyes:..And you think the majority of those countries that kicked out the Brits for whatever will allow such a travesty  over those that perished fighting for their freedom?..You are trully naive man...Unless of course you are just having a giraffe! :lol:


Your question is probably better posed at Pablo Elizalde, though humour is obvious.

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#980 AustinF1

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 22:29

Your question is probably better posed at Pablo Elizalde, though humour is obvious.

LOL, yeah I didn't see much there to get upset about. 



#981 Atreiu

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 22:35

Liberty doesn’t really know what to do, do they?

#982 pdac

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 23:14

And what do those that actually attend a GP weekend get in return?

 

Same price, less days. From what I hear people saying on this forum, if they did that all they'd get is moaning - people would still turn up and pay.



#983 Clatter

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 23:38

Same price, less days. From what I hear people saying on this forum, if they did that all they'd get is moaning - people would still turn up and pay.

True, but I hate hearing those sort of suggestions when no consideration is given to those that actually attend.

#984 SonGoku

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 00:30

True, but I hate hearing those sort of suggestions when no consideration is given to those that actually attend.

 

Well, that's the problem, there are almost no people that attend the FP practice, as a viewer you almost expect empty stands and that isn't a great look when you are selling F1 races as ''superbowl'' events.



#985 pdac

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 01:06

True, but I hate hearing those sort of suggestions when no consideration is given to those that actually attend.

 

Sadly, (as always) it's about money, money, money. To keep things the way they are and have circuit owners and Liberty make more money, they've have to get more attending and have those attendees pay a lot more for the privilege. But the usual way to do these sort of things is to establish what the maximum price the market will take and then offer the minimum you need to to achieve that level of expenditure. So that means 1 less day for the same or a higher price. Plus. with those saved days, you can put on more events and achieve even more income. 



#986 F1 Mike

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 02:04

Well, that's the problem, there are almost no people that attend the FP practice, as a viewer you almost expect empty stands and that isn't a great look when you are selling F1 races as ''superbowl'' events.


You speak as though you have never yourself attended a racing event?
As has been pointed out by others, practice days are enjoyed by many fans.
It's the same in MotoGP. They're not as well attended, on practice days but people still go and enjoy them in a more relaxed way. Do you think MotoGP should also scrap Fridays?

#987 loki

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 03:07



Newey has been calling for less CFD. His reasoning is that teams would need less staff to analyze the output. Because of the human element there is risk of whistleblowers.

 

I think it has more to do with Newey loses his advantage of being an aero savant.  It's been widely reported that he is still very old school pen to paper, literally, when it comes to designing.

 



At least with Bernie, there was a feeling he knew what F1 was all about for us fans.

 

 

39078870640_0b1182b902.jpg

 

Ecclestone might have made you think he was for the fans.  If one looks at his actions rather than what he want's someone to think it's quite a different story.  Ecclestone was always about Ecclestone first.



#988 Kalmake

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 10:41

I think it has more to do with Newey loses his advantage of being an aero savant.  It's been widely reported that he is still very old school pen to paper, literally, when it comes to designing.

His motive doesn't change the point I was making: why would he call for lower CFD cap if it's so easy to cheat anyway (as claimed by someone here).



#989 Hati

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 12:00

I was going to comment that Super Bowl is special because it's once a year, not 25 times, but perhaps that's already mentioned in this longish thread. Instead I say this: There is a saying in Finland, "Perse edellä puuhun." which translates to something like "Climbing to a tree with ass at front.". I don't know if others have similar saying but it describes Libertys actions well, instead of fixing basic problems and building a solid foundation for which to build big business they try to invent stupid gimmicks that carey chase old fans away without luring in new ones. In true quarter economic spirit they try to get big short term profits without thinking of long term sustainability.



#990 Nonesuch

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 13:51

Liberty doesn’t really know what to do, do they?

 

I'm pretty sure they do. They have hired people who can reasonably be expected to know what is going on.

 

The real trick will be combining their internal vision with the concerns of A) the big teams whose involvement elevates F1 above many other racing series (with not infrequently much better racing!), and, much less important but not irrelevant, B) the core of older fans who have a loud voice in traditional media. They can buy off the corporate talking heads to be enthusiastic about pretty much anything, that's no problem. But the magazines, the websites, the 'new media' channels. Those are a bit tougher to get on board with big changes.


Edited by Nonesuch, 17 November 2018 - 13:52.


#991 Sterzo

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 14:39

... it describes Libertys actions well...  In true quarter economic spirit they try to get big short term profits without thinking of long term sustainability.

Can you give some examples of where they have done this?  All the indications so far are that they are attempting to shift from the short term approach taken by Ecclestone, to making the sport sustainable in the long term. They've said that's what they want to do; they've set up a group of experienced F1 engineers and managers to look at it; they're joining the FIA in applying pressure to reduce costs; and even the things we may not like (Superbowl approach, destination venues) are about a long term approach.

 

Liberty bought F1 wrapped up in pre-existing contracts, practices, and funding models, and filled with change-resistant interest groups. It's a bit of a paradox to criticise them for thinking short term because they haven't already changed everything.

 

We're stuck with the underlying evil that F1 grew into a fat cash cow, with the connivance of the previous FIA president. As a result it is going to be "owned" by a big business. Within that context, the signs so far are that Liberty aren't bad. They "get" that we need lower costs and better racing. That is a major advance over the previous owners.



#992 Hati

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 15:12

All the indications so far are that they are attempting to shift from the short term approach taken by Ecclestone, to making the sport sustainable in the long term.

 

Talks about 25 races per season don't bode well. And signing of Vietnam with talks of Silverstone going don't look like a shift of any kind.



#993 Garndell

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 16:17

 

Grand Prix Diary @GrandPrixDiary
Replying to @EliGP
Mr Bratches was muttering something about holding the British Grand Prix somewhere else other than Silverstone. Phnom Penh perhaps?
 
Pablo Elizalde  @EliGP
Replying to @GrandPrixDiary
I mean, technically the options are endless.

DsIdg4WWoAMSaaL.jpg

 

 

There's a fair bit of red missing from that map, including those pesky 13 colonies... :rotfl:



#994 Enzo308

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 18:26

Can you give some examples of where they have done this? All the indications so far are that they are attempting to shift from the short term approach taken by Ecclestone, to making the sport sustainable in the long term. They've said that's what they want to do; they've set up a group of experienced F1 engineers and managers to look at it; they're joining the FIA in applying pressure to reduce costs; and even the things we may not like (Superbowl approach, destination venues) are about a long term approach.

Liberty bought F1 wrapped up in pre-existing contracts, practices, and funding models, and filled with change-resistant interest groups. It's a bit of a paradox to criticise them for thinking short term because they haven't already changed everything.

We're stuck with the underlying evil that F1 grew into a fat cash cow, with the connivance of the previous FIA president. As a result it is going to be "owned" by a big business. Within that context, the signs so far are that Liberty aren't bad. They "get" that we need lower costs and better racing. That is a major advance over the previous owners.


Perfectly said. Great post.

#995 Enzo308

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 18:28

Not sure why there is an outcry over going to Vietnam, it’s supposed to be one of the most beautiful places on earth. Places like Baku, and a Singapore didn’t have ‘racing history ‘ that some people like to claim is necessary to hold a race, yet they are both fantastic places and races....

#996 Rob Ryder

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 18:45

The real trick will be combining their internal vision with the concerns of A) .... B) the core of older fans who have a loud voice in traditional media.

What are you smoking? Liberty don't give a sh*t about fans, old or new, just the profit margin.

#997 loki

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 19:43

What are you smoking? Liberty don't give a sh*t about fans, old or new, just the profit margin.

 

So why do you think the increased fan out reach isn't for the benefit of the fans?  FOM gains in a promotional sense but the fans seem to enjoy it.  I know I do.  How often did FOM tweet during the previous regime?  How about You Tube clips?  Free pre and post race programming?  Coverage of the race via Instagram?  Encouraging teams, drivers and fan to use social media instead of punishing them.  FOM sanctioned promotional events in major cities (even if Thee Lewis ditches it).  They had a few previously but it was largely Red Bull doing it on their own.  F1TV has so far been mostly a debacle the the thought is there however poorly executed.  Just because some of the consumer facing outreach has been bungled or cheesy doesn't mean they aren't executing a plan for better out reach.  It's basically a bunch of old, white men (pretty much like F1 in general) trying to cater to a crowd that's in the present when it comes to media consumption.  



#998 Stephane

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 20:13

I think it has more to do with Newey loses his advantage of being an aero savant.  It's been widely reported that he is still very old school pen to paper, literally, when it comes to designing.

 

 

 

39078870640_0b1182b902.jpg

 

Ecclestone might have made you think he was for the fans.  If one looks at his actions rather than what he want's someone to think it's quite a different story.  Ecclestone was always about Ecclestone first.

 

 

That's what i say, we had, at least, the feeling. Now, they're not even triyng



#999 RacingGreen

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 20:13

Liberty doesn’t really know what to do, do they?

 

 

What are you smoking? Liberty don't give a sh*t about fans, old or new, just the profit margin.

 

Say what you like about CVC they sold for a good price and with consistently falling numbers of viewers Liberty are discovering how much they have overpaid for the rights. They can't get a promoter for their second USA race and existing promoters are struggling to afford the contract escalators threatening their revenue base, so now they are having to scramble to protect their investment. 



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#1000 Fatgadget

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 20:24

LOL, yeah I didn't see much there to get upset about. 

Yeah. Nothing to get upset about unless you happen to be on the receiving end of it.