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Liberty to "turn F1 into Super Bowl"


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#1101 Beri

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 14:26

Better let it take two seasons more to get a good car to race, than hastily fabricated solutions that don't work.

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#1102 Nonesuch

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 14:30

But hey, why wait for the properly thought out regulations to be put into place when we can make a knee-jerk reaction NOW to one of the most exciting F1 races in recent years?

 

There's not much 'knee-jerk' about criticising DRS in its 9th season. DRS is no longer a band-aid. It is now an integral part of F1 history, and the FIA has consistently failed to make it obsolete.

 

They have already scuppered one planned major aero-overhaul since the introduction of DRS, the one for 2013, and now FOM is saying DRS could well be retained for 2021 as well.


Edited by Nonesuch, 08 April 2019 - 14:31.


#1103 muramasa

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 14:30

It was a reaction to people screaming for more overtakes. They, in the end, got what they wanted. Sadly one must say.

Count me out as I never asked. I and not small amount of people have always been asking for aero overhaul but we never get it.

I hear football, baseball or whatever sports fans are asking stupid things but organizers are not succumbing to such dumb-down pressure, while F1 organizers are happily giving out not only these dumb-downs but also things no one is asking in the first place like fastest lap point, knockdown quali, double points, now Q4 etc.



#1104 P123

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 14:34

I guess so. I never complained during the borefests of the mid 90s. Witnessing the drivers struggle with those sexy cars to even drive them straight on is still mesmerizing to me.
But hey, everything for the show. A better show sells better and makes more money.


Except nobody at that time were saying the drivers were struggling with them. Instead they were seen as too easy to drive. The complaints never change. Seeing cars follow each other 2s apart for endless laps was mesmerising only in the boredom induced sleep it caused. :)

#1105 dn12005

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 14:35

Well apparently DRS is false but Push-to-Pass is fine, because that doesn’t give the following driver an advantage...

Thing is, DRS was a bit of an ill conceived method of improving the situation. Now the FIA and FOM are actually working on cars that will be capable of racing well, using more resources than have ever been thrown at the problem before. But that’s just not quick enough for some. It has to be done yesterday.

 

Could DRS be considered as one of those situations that what an engineer has learned, it cannot be unlearned?  Is it not plausible that if DRS is deregulated, the teams will still find a way to implement it? 



#1106 PayasYouRace

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 14:38

Could DRS be considered as one of those situations that what an engineer has learned, it cannot be unlearned?  Is it not plausible that if DRS is deregulated, the teams will still find a way to implement it?


Not really. Teams were already replicating its effects before it was thought up. Flexible wings and the f-duct for example.

If moveable aero went back to being banned that wouldn’t basically be the end of it, and we’d be back to 2010.

#1107 P123

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 14:42

If FOM is interested in increasing the spectacle, it might want to take note of this former F1 driver (emphasis added)
 
 
Last race Hamilton and Vettel both overtook each other. It was a complete snoozer, and had Vettel not spun his car after the second pass was done, nobody would even have taken note.
 
DRS continues to be a disaster for F1. Not only are DRS passes dull as can be, its more pernicious outcome is that the FIA and FOM have failed to take serious steps to addressing the aerodynamic crisis affecting F1.
 
Other series are showing that it's very much possible to tackle this issue in a more concrete sense. Thumbs up to Ericsson for highlighting it. :up:


DRS is a sticking plaster solution to F1's age old problem of dirty air which prevents close racing. I'm not sure Ericsson is worth listening to- IndyCar is a spec formula, without the same dirty air problem but which still requires push-to-pass, and even that doesn't always result in much action.

But the FIA and Liberty are taking steps, which should hopefully rid us of DRS.

As for Bahrain, I can't imagine why you'd want to see it as a snoozer.... :) It's not the best example of DRS at it's worst (China will have that!). Great pass by Hamilton, on the brakes, throwing it around the outside after trying the previous lap where both cars had ran side by side through a couple of corners. That's DRS done correctly; that avoids drive-by on the straights and requires the work to be done under braking. It's not always like that mind, and I'd agree that F1 is a bit too addicted to it.

#1108 muramasa

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 15:15

It will attract people interested in the celebrities, I doubt many will form an interest in the sport.

Exactly. It's just yet another exercise of circulating money within entertainment village that have no effect and benefit to the very teams and the sport.

 

 

I don't care if they do it or not, I simply don't believe it will meet their stated aim of increasing the fan base. Just as I don't believe anyone tunes in because a celeb is strutting around the starting grid.

Exactly. It used to be that F1 possesses high status and dignity that celebs want to come or teams invite celebs to the event, but nowadays position got reversed it seems, that's crisis. If you see football or tennis or whatever, heroes are the players, not celebs. I dont know any other major sports rely on celebs on its promotion, of course they sometimes feature or collaborate with celebs but not like F1 is trying to do. This is, crisis. The gist of football, tennis etc is technique (physical or tactical or even technological), that's what they are pushing and media and fans in general is talking about. Meanwhile the gist of F1 is cutting edge technology, that's this sport's unique selling point, exactly what's exciting about it but they are not featuring and promoting this aspect at all. Brawn even laments gearbox and those components under the cover are not relevant to fans, crikey what a hypocrite and deception, they are not even making effort to push this core and fundamental aspect in the first place.

 

 

Well in terms of general public promotion, that Lewis doing music getting lots of views is the cue. I mean let drivers and teams and makers do whatever they want about the use of F1. Current F1 is total control freak, I dont see Honda using F1 as promotion at all (in general, except those time and space limited events), on rare occasion when TV uses F1 as material in whatever programs they only use still pictures very shortly lol, even in the UK I never ever encountered anything about F1 in towns and on streets, all because rights fee to use those materials is too expensive. Then they are lamenting lack of and shrinking of general public exposure, just comical and pathetic. Making the use of F1 materials free for TV stations, completely free up the use of F1 for drivers and teams/makers and just let them manage, that can increase F1 exposure quite dramatically.



#1109 Clatter

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 15:39

The FIA have taken note. Not only do we have new regulations for this year, but it’s a 2 year stopgap until the 2021 regulations actually fix it.

But hey, why wait for the properly thought out regulations to be put into place when we can make a knee-jerk reaction NOW to one of the most exciting F1 races in recent years?

Hey, DRS isn’t ideal, but when fans switch off (mentally) as soon as they see that flap open and declare whatever comes next a drive by, it seems it doesn’t matter how exciting it actually is.

I think DRS was the knee jerk reaction, and I won't be surprised if its still around once the new rules come in.

The reason fans switch off is that a DRS is simply not exciting.

#1110 statman

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 13:05


Exclusive: F1's plans for a Miami Grand Prix shelved for the foreseeable future after latest delay https://t.co/rnTyr92wCL

 

 

Miami F1 GP Plans On Hold Amid Corruption Rumours



#1111 Tsarwash

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 14:32

 


Exclusive: F1's plans for a Miami Grand Prix shelved for the foreseeable future after latest delay https://t.co/rnTyr92wCL

 

 

Miami F1 GP Plans On Hold Amid Corruption Rumours

 

I love the idea of F1 deciding to eschew Silverstone in favour of a street race in Cardiff. :drunk:  



#1112 Pete_f1

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 17:20

What happened to New Jersey, oops I mean New York?

#1113 RacingGreen

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 21:43

DRS is a sticking plaster solution to F1's age old problem of dirty air which prevents close racing. .........................................

But the FIA and Liberty are taking steps, which should hopefully rid us of DRS.
 

 

Last I saw Ross Brawn was looking at the DRS mountings on the 2021 common parts list so I think you'll find DRS will be here for a while yet.

 

EDIT - I have just looked for a source and can't find one. The WMSC press release just says "The Council approved the launch of a series of tenders within the context of the ongoing development of the 2021 Technical Regulations." but doesn't go into specifics. This may just be a rumour I read somewhere, I hope so.


Edited by RacingGreen, 09 April 2019 - 22:07.


#1114 RacingGreen

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 23:36

Well apparently DRS is false but Push-to-Pass is fine, because that doesn’t give the following driver an advantage...

Thing is, DRS was a bit of an ill conceived method of improving the situation. Now the FIA and FOM are actually working on cars that will be capable of racing well, using more resources than have ever been thrown at the problem before. But that’s just not quick enough for some. It has to be done yesterday.

 

My understanding is that in Indycar each driver has a set number of push to pass activations per race (at Barber for example it was 20) These can be used either as "push to pass" or "push to defend" so are aimed at improving racing by the addition of a tactical element. While I don't really like DRS I can't see why, as an interim measure until Ross Brawn's team improve the intrinsic racing, F1 couldn't use DRS in the same way. Maybe you (or someone else) can explain. 



#1115 pdac

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 00:18

My understanding is that in Indycar each driver has a set number of push to pass activations per race (at Barber for example it was 20) These can be used either as "push to pass" or "push to defend" so are aimed at improving racing by the addition of a tactical element. While I don't really like DRS I can't see why, as an interim measure until Ross Brawn's team improve the intrinsic racing, F1 couldn't use DRS in the same way. Maybe you (or someone else) can explain. 

 

I think I can explain (although, I'm not defending DRS). The idea of DRS was to counter the problem that, when a chasing car gets within a certain distance of the car in front then its aero suffers. So DRS is simply there to restore the differential. Hence, there's no limit on the number of times you can use it because it's just there to artificially counter a natural, but undesirable issue with modern 'race' cars (which means that they cannot race).


Edited by pdac, 10 April 2019 - 00:18.


#1116 ANF

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 00:28

GP3 has had a limited number of activations per race since it started using DRS in 2017. It's been a small number too, like 5 activations per race.

But it looks like this may change this year when GP3 becomes the FIA F3 Championship, because there's no mention of a limit in the sporting regulations.

#1117 loki

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 00:54

So far no other outlets including local regular news have picked up this alleged bribery charge.  We have a similar deal here where they can't accept the offer but not a crime pre se if you offer.  From the piece, if accurate, it appears to be a case of Bratches looking to wine and dine them.  "Let's go to dinner and a club" is a lot different than "I'll give you a million bucks".   Here they couldn't go out to dinner with him if he was going to pay and pitch a business deal.  Our law says you can't even pitch the deal unless the LVCVA board is in public session.  That's why when the say F1 to Vegas they may be talking locals but as far as getting some sort of deal it has to be publicly pitched and transparent.  If they did go out they'd have to pay for their own meal and costs and not talk about any event.  Riiiight....

 

I don't know why F1 seems so eager to die on that hill.  After the initial blowback it pretty much looked dead in the water.  It may be the only possibility right now but it hasn't looked good since it was proposed.



#1118 PayasYouRace

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 08:03

I think DRS was the knee jerk reaction, and I won't be surprised if its still around once the new rules come in.

The reason fans switch off is that a DRS is simply not exciting.

 

It was a hurriedly introduced idea for sure. With a bit more thought it could have been implemented it a much better way.

 

What I was referring to knee-jerk though was the desires of some posters for an alternative now, ignoring that the FIA have been working on the most well researched set of overtaking friendly regulations ever and will be in force in a couple of years.



#1119 Kalmake

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Posted 10 April 2019 - 08:32

Did everyone moan about the hanford wing when it arrived in Indycar? I seem to remember on the super speedways you would never know who was going to be leading the lap when the cars were close together the draft was that powerful.

 

Has the internet just made people whiny?

Indy lacks the moaning culture we enjoy with F1.

 

Artificially creating pack racing at 400kph with open wheelers. Show over sport s*** idea.

 

There you go.