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Liberty to "turn F1 into Super Bowl"


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#151 johnmhinds

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 23:28

More fluff means more visibility, which means more viewers and money for everyone. It's a bit different if you have the likes of coca cola and apple promoting f1 compared to lucozade and acer. Now we have teams like mclaren without a title sponsor and bare racing overalls.

Here is some footage of the Taylor Swift concert at COTA:

https://www.youtube....h?v=a5WrYF2blPk

Not sure how any of it gives any visibility for F1. If you sat a random person down and asked them to watch the video they probably wouldn't even twig that it was held at a race track.

Edited by johnmhinds, 31 December 2016 - 23:49.


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#152 D28

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 23:40

I can understand how they can make Montreal a week long experience, but that's because it's within a heart beat of a major city. Many of the tracks are effectively in the middle of nowhere and I really can't see the same being recreated everywhere.

Middle of nowhere is a term popularized by Bernie and his supporters, to explain why F1 couldn't possibly go to some of N America's premium racing circuits. NASCAR doesn't have a problem not being anywhere close by a major city. Daytona Beach runs a racing spectacle that takes up most of the winter month of late Jan-Feb and they are not a major urban centre. Time to move on from the concept that F1 absolutely must be in NYC, L Vegas, Miami, Bernie spent about 2 decades trying to achieve the unachievable.



#153 pdac

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 00:00

Here is some footage of the Taylor Swift concert at COTA:

https://www.youtube....h?v=a5WrYF2blPk

Not sure how any of it gives any visibility for F1. If you sat a random person down and asked them to watch the video they probably wouldn't even twig that it was held at a race track.

 

 

The point is that once you attract people to something where there is an F1 race happening then it will rub off on a certain number. After a while they will be more curious to catch a bit of the race. Some will then, hopefully, like what they see and become interested.



#154 loki

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 00:02

The spectators in the crowd are just a tiny fraction of all spectators. F1 gets its money from TV and the presumed dozens and dozens of millions specttors, not ticket sales. So 21 GPs and saturation is a problem.

 

It's easy to argue it's not an issue having 21 events in terms of TV.  They are making more money than ever before on TV deals.  Sponsorship isn't about a critical mass of viewers, it's about getting the viewers in the demographic of those sponsoring the events.  Raw numbers are one thing, but that's not what pays the bills.

 

 

I don't disagree with the post in general, and Montreal, Melbourne, etc, have been doing this kind of thing for a long time. It's nothing new, and COTA and Liberty haven't reinvented the wheel here. 

 

Re: Taylor Swift in Austin though, what we saw here was that what Taylor Swift fans saw was an opportunity to see TS, and it just happened to be at some race track after the day's track sessions were long over. Probably 95% of the concert crowd arrived after 95% of the racing crowd was already gone and the rest were leaving. They really couldn't have cared less where the concert was held or what else was going on there earlier in the day.

 

It's more than just a single concert by a single artist.  In fact most of those events don't have mega concerts.  Some have large concerts or music in the fan zone as part of the lead up the event.  For example in Vegas during Cup week there aren't any big concerts but there many promotional events (include some music but mostly not), driver/sponsor events and parties and plenty of media coverage.  Focusing on just music only looks at a small part of the days surrounding an event.

 

I can understand how they can make Montreal a week long experience, but that's because it's within a heart beat of a major city. Many of the tracks are effectively in the middle of nowhere and I really can't see the same being recreated everywhere.

 

You don't put it out at the track.  In fact unless there are cars on track you won't be able to get people out to the track.  You put it in the city.  With a few exceptions, Spa for example, there are larger cities where the bulk of the fans stay.  But it's not only for fans.  It's to expose others as well that F1 exists and perhaps get them to the track.  These are basic event promotional tools that F1 has yet to use.  This method works across many event types, sporting and non sporting. If anything it shows how behind in promoting the sport the current commercial rights holders are than anything that the new guys might be adding.



#155 Clatter

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 00:03

Middle of nowhere is a term popularized by Bernie and his supporters, to explain why F1 couldn't possibly go to some of N America's premium racing circuits. NASCAR doesn't have a problem not being anywhere close by a major city. Daytona Beach runs a racing spectacle that takes up most of the winter month of late Jan-Feb and they are not a major urban centre. Time to move on from the concept that F1 absolutely must be in NYC, L Vegas, Miami, Bernie spent about 2 decades trying to achieve the unachievable.

 


I'm not for one minute suggesting F1 must be in any of those places. We are discussing what Liberty may be planning around a GP weekend, and I don't believe you can recreate the buzz that surrounds Montreal or other city based races at a racetrack that is in the middle of nowhere. That doesn't mean races should not be held there.

#156 Clatter

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 00:06

It's easy to argue it's not an issue having 21 events in terms of TV.  They are making more money than ever before on TV deals.  Sponsorship isn't about a critical mass of viewers, it's about getting the viewers in the demographic of those sponsoring the events.  Raw numbers are one thing, but that's not what pays the bills.

 

 

 

It's more than just a single concert by a single artist.  In fact most of those events don't have mega concerts.  Some have large concerts or music in the fan zone as part of the lead up the event.  For example in Vegas during Cup week there aren't any big concerts but there many promotional events (include some music but mostly not), driver/sponsor events and parties and plenty of media coverage.  Focusing on just music only looks at a small part of the days surrounding an event.

 

 

You don't put it out at the track.  In fact unless there are cars on track you won't be able to get people out to the track.  You put it in the city.  With a few exceptions, Spa for example, there are larger cities where the bulk of the fans stay.  But it's not only for fans.  It's to expose others as well that F1 exists and perhaps get them to the track.  These are basic event promotional tools that F1 has yet to use.  This method works across many event types, sporting and non sporting. If anything it shows how behind in promoting the sport the current commercial rights holders are than anything that the new guys might be adding.

 


I know you don't put it at the track, but many tracks are not that close to a city. The likes of Montreal work because of the location of the track.

#157 johnmhinds

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 00:09

The point is that once you attract people to something where there is an F1 race happening then it will rub off on a certain number. After a while they will be more curious to catch a bit of the race. Some will then, hopefully, like what they see and become interested.


But none of those people see anything of F1 or any other motor racing. The event happens several hours after everything else has been packed away.

What is meant to be rubbing off on them when from their perspective they are just standing in a fenced off area in front of a stage that's just like every other concert they could go to.

#158 AustinF1

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 00:19

It's more than just a single concert by a single artist.  In fact most of those events don't have mega concerts.  Some have large concerts or music in the fan zone as part of the lead up the event.  For example in Vegas during Cup week there aren't any big concerts but there many promotional events (include some music but mostly not), driver/sponsor events and parties and plenty of media coverage.  Focusing on just music only looks at a small part of the days surrounding an event.

Yeah that's kinda what I mean. The TS concert, despite how it was pitched by COTA, didn't really do much in terms of attracting people to the racing. It was more like a separate event held after the earlier Saturday racing spectacle was over. COTA has tried to do more of the GP Week type of things Montreal does, but that (FanFest) has diminished in size every year, too. 

 

 

johnmhinds, on 31 Dec 2016 - 18:09, said:

But none of those people see anything of F1 or any other motor racing. The event happens several hours after everything else has been packed away.

What is meant to be rubbing off on them when from their perspective they are just standing in a fenced off area in front of a stage that's just like every other concert they could go to.

 

Yep. After the racing/qualifying was well over  on Saturday and the facility was pretty much empty, then the concert-goers started streaming in in earnest. They asked me a lot of questions, but not about racing or what was on tap for Sunday. They (mostly females in uncomfortable shoes) wanted to know how far was the walk to the Super Stage. Most didn't like the answer. Most of the talk centered around being excited for the concert, wishing there were adequate shuttles or better walkways for the 1.5 mile walk, etc. Racing? Not so much.


Edited by AustinF1, 01 January 2017 - 00:32.


#159 johnmhinds

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 00:30

I could see the connection if it was a concert that was held in the middle of a 24hr race, but stuff like this does nothing for motor racing.

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#160 D28

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 01:02

I'm not for one minute suggesting F1 must be in any of those places. We are discussing what Liberty may be planning around a GP weekend, and I don't believe you can recreate the buzz that surrounds Montreal or other city based races at a racetrack that is in the middle of nowhere. That doesn't mean races should not be held there.

Fair enough it was Liberty themselves suggested those venues in the opening article.

I remain unconvinced that a buzz cannot be created wherever the race is being organized. Obviously Daytona Beach, Charlotte, Raleigh, Talladaga and of course Austin are successful at stimulating interest. A "buzz" is very subjective, many racing enthusiasts get their thrill from night before at track side, not possible at an urban location. All depends on one's preference in the end.



#161 pdac

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 01:18

But none of those people see anything of F1 or any other motor racing. The event happens several hours after everything else has been packed away.

What is meant to be rubbing off on them when from their perspective they are just standing in a fenced off area in front of a stage that's just like every other concert they could go to.

 

But you create a buzz and at the centre of that buzz is F1.



#162 johnmhinds

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 02:51

But you create a buzz and at the centre of that buzz is F1.

 

The F1 cars locked away in a garage half a mile away are the centre of a Taylor Swift concert?

 

How?



#163 FBJim

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 03:18

This could be bad, but it could potentially not be terrible. I do think the sport suffers when events don't look spectacular at all- see: empty grandstands in China, and whatever. MotoGP production does a good job at showing off how the crowd gets into the events, and that kind of thing can't hurt F1. 



#164 baddog

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 04:22

Do you mean 'put it on FTA TV in Britain' or everywhere; because if it's free somewhere, everyone else ends up invariably paying more to make up for it. 

 

That is silly. It isn't 'free' in the sense that no-one pays the promoter for it, if it is on the BBC (or ITV or other FTA channel) they still pay market to the sport for the rights.



#165 loki

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 08:49

I know you don't put it at the track, but many tracks are not that close to a city. The likes of Montreal work because of the location of the track.

 

 

The F1 cars locked away in a garage half a mile away are the centre of a Taylor Swift concert?

 

How?

 

 

The promotional events in the US are held in cities where the tracks are 20-30 miles outside of town.  Tracks being outside of town is the norm, not the exception.  You guys seem to fixated on a single concert and not aware of how promotional events around sporting or other large scale events operate.  You take a single aspect and hammer against it as though it was the only component of a marketing strategy.  What was discussed in the piece is normal event promotion.



#166 loki

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 09:02

Middle of nowhere is a term popularized by Bernie and his supporters, to explain why F1 couldn't possibly go to some of N America's premium racing circuits. NASCAR doesn't have a problem not being anywhere close by a major city. Daytona Beach runs a racing spectacle that takes up most of the winter month of late Jan-Feb and they are not a major urban centre. Time to move on from the concept that F1 absolutely must be in NYC, L Vegas, Miami, Bernie spent about 2 decades trying to achieve the unachievable.

 

Ecclestone spent two decades not understanding the market, being arrogant and dismissive in dealing with US promoters wanting far more than an event was worth.  When his bluff was called on how poor a value the sport was to a promoter he resulted to insults and passive aggressive comments.  It's Ecclestone's arrogance and incompetence that has kept the sport from the US.

 

To compare the penetration of Nascar to getting an F1 race isn't comparable.  Nascar, and stock car racing in general was born in rural areas in the south.   The demographic of F1 and even formula car racing in general isn't going to be drawn to Charlotte or other, what they would call, down market, less populated cities.   Realistically unless someone builds a Grade 1 circuit near a population center (as COTA did) street races in either Vegas or Miami are the only likely possibilities.



#167 turssi

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 09:43

If they offer a helping hand to race promoters, then that would be great.

#168 pdac

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 10:43

The F1 cars locked away in a garage half a mile away are the centre of a Taylor Swift concert?

 

How?

 

But the point is it's not about the F1 race. It's about the show. Once you have the show then the F1 part can be pushed more to the forefront. But you establish the show first.

 

You don't market the product you market the brand.


Edited by pdac, 01 January 2017 - 10:44.


#169 Clatter

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 12:12

The promotional events in the US are held in cities where the tracks are 20-30 miles outside of town. Tracks being outside of town is the norm, not the exception. You guys seem to fixated on a single concert and not aware of how promotional events around sporting or other large scale events operate. You take a single aspect and hammer against it as though it was the only component of a marketing strategy. What was discussed in the piece is normal event promotion.

Maybe because we have a better idea of how our home market works than you we know that would not work here.

#170 D28

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 13:44

 

 

To compare the penetration of Nascar to getting an F1 race isn't comparable.  Nascar, and stock car racing in general was born in rural areas in the south.   The demographic of F1 and even formula car racing in general isn't going to be drawn to Charlotte or other, what they would call, down market, less populated cities.   Realistically unless someone builds a Grade 1 circuit near a population center (as COTA did) street races in either Vegas or Miami are the only likely possibilities.

And that is the major drawback, quality circuits tend to be built where land is relatively cheap, some distance from cities; F1 needs another street circuit like a hole in the head, that is definitely not the way forward, they have already tried L Vegas once.

Great circuits, famous races already exist in Europe in sparsely populated regions, Spa, Nurburgring and most famously Le Mans, these venues have no problem creating atmosphere for racing. F1 already has enough urban/street circuits.

Road Atlanta is not that removed from metropolitan areas, Watkins Glen similarly, there are others. the obvious advantage is they already exist and can be upgraded, presumably cheaper than starting from scratch.

Finally I see little evidence presented that urban residents like NYC people are salivating for F1. Any attempt to build a temporary circuit would guarantee lawsuits, Many people would be opposed, many are opposed to autos even existing.

 

I am disappointed that Liberty may simply be following Bernie's model F1 absolutely has to be in Place A; I would say find the quality circuit and build the attraction there, gradually. Which we already have in COTA; they should do everything to make this USGP successful

with long term planning, Forget talk of 2, 3 USGPs until this one is on sound footing; other large countries  get by with 1 US can as well.



#171 johnmhinds

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 15:09

But the point is it's not about the F1 race. It's about the show. Once you have the show then the F1 part can be pushed more to the forefront. But you establish the show first.

 

You don't market the product you market the brand.

 

You're not answering how that would happen though?

 

If they hold another concert next year how is F1 going to be promoted to those concert goers? And why wasn't F1 promoted to the people who attended the Taylor Swift concert this year?

 

The race and the concerts are being treated as unrelated events that happen to take part in the same location.


Edited by johnmhinds, 01 January 2017 - 15:10.


#172 Nathan

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 16:16

The spectators in the crowd are just a tiny fraction of all spectators. F1 gets its money from TV and the presumed dozens and dozens of millions specttors, not ticket sales. So 21 GPs and saturation is a problem.

 

I suspect just a tiny amount of TV viewers feel 21 races is just too much to watch.  Sure it increases the chances a GP clashes with another life event, but I imagine most fans are just excited to see a GP. 

 

I can understand how they can make Montreal a week long experience, but that's because it's within a heart beat of a major city. Many of the tracks are effectively in the middle of nowhere and I really can't see the same being recreated everywhere.

I'd love to do it. I can only go by what I see on TV and read about it, but I know 100% they could not recreate it at Silverstone. Look forward to hearing about your experiences.

 

I agree.  The BGP was the first GP I ever attended, and I was amazed how little there was related to it in London.  The Puma store seemed busier than it normally would be outside of Christmas.  I agree there is little you can do around Silverstone, but I'm sure there is plenty of opportunity in London.  I'm not sure it is imperative events must be held within the proverbial stone's throw of the track.  The idea is just to make the GP weekend more exciting to a wider audience.

 

I don't disagree with the post in general, and Montreal, Melbourne, etc, have been doing this kind of thing for a long time. It's nothing new, and COTA and Liberty haven't reinvented the wheel here. 

 

Re: Taylor Swift in Austin though, what we saw here was that what Taylor Swift fans saw was an opportunity to see TS, and it just happened to be at some race track after the day's track sessions were long over. Probably 95% of the concert crowd arrived after 95% of the racing crowd was already gone and the rest were leaving. They really couldn't have cared less where the concert was held or what else was going on there earlier in the day.

 

I don't think they are looking to re-invent the wheel, I think they are looking to add more wheels to the circus.

 

Regarding Swift, she was on a self-imposes hiatus from touring.  She did a one-off show for the GP.  What does that say about the GP to the general public? Sounds to me like it's a pretty big deal.  Now it is unfortunate while people going to the concert where filing in there wasn't some F1 action in the back round to make heads turn, but that wasn't logistically possible.  Again, the idea is to build up a whole weekend, to make the people of that region excited a GP is coming, even if the person that doesn't want to go see the GP, but just wants to experience the concert and/or street parties that come with it.  I would bet a large sum more people mull around Montreal's downtown festivities during GP weekend than attend the race - sellout or not.

This is all about increasing the spectacle in general, and importance and impact to the region hosting the GP.  Just like the Super Bowl is more than a game, GP weekends need to be more than a race.  P.T. Barnum stuff.


Edited by Nathan, 01 January 2017 - 16:19.


#173 Clatter

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 16:33

I suspect just a tiny amount of TV viewers feel 21 races is just too much to watch. Sure it increases the chances a GP clashes with another life event, but I imagine most fans are just excited to see a GP.


I agree. The BGP was the first GP I ever attended, and I was amazed how little there was related to it in London. The Puma store seemed busier than it normally would be outside of Christmas. I agree there is little you can do around Silverstone, but I'm sure there is plenty of opportunity in London. I'm not sure it is imperative events must be held within the proverbial stone's throw of the track. The idea is just to make the GP weekend more exciting to a wider audience.


I don't think they are looking to re-invent the wheel, I think they are looking to add more wheels to the circus.

Regarding Swift, she was on a self-imposes hiatus from touring. She did a one-off show for the GP. What does that say about the GP to the general public? Sounds to me like it's a pretty big deal. Now it is unfortunate while people going to the concert where filing in there wasn't some F1 action in the back round to make heads turn, but that wasn't logistically possible. Again, the idea is to build up a whole weekend, to make the people of that region excited a GP is coming, even if the person that doesn't want to go see the GP, but just wants to experience the concert and/or street parties that come with it. I would bet a large sum more people mull around Montreal's downtown festivities during GP weekend than attend the race - sellout or not.

This is all about increasing the spectacle in general, and importance and impact to the region hosting the GP. Just like the Super Bowl is more than a game, GP weekends need to be more than a race. P.T. Barnum stuff.

They have tried doing things in London and other locations, but I don't believe those things have attracted more than a tiny number to the sport. They tend to be treated as a standalone event that are good fun to go to on the day and is then forgotten. It's the core product that needs to be improved, no amount of fluff will improve what many find an expensive and uninteresting sport.

#174 Neno

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 17:18

taylor swift concert's will not help F1 to become better motorsport show, which F1 needs to become if you want fans back or improve expand actual F1 fan communitiy. But I guess they are not aiming to improve motosport part, but circus show. But we already have that since 2009.  Derailing it any further will only mean one thing. Death. You see this is type of thing what is killing F1, always making wrong choices. F1 is getting more dead every day because people who make decisions "to improve it" are actually killing it.    


Edited by Neno, 01 January 2017 - 17:20.


#175 AustinF1

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 17:26

The promotional events in the US are held in cities where the tracks are 20-30 miles outside of town.  Tracks being outside of town is the norm, not the exception.  You guys seem to fixated on a single concert and not aware of how promotional events around sporting or other large scale events operate.  You take a single aspect and hammer against it as though it was the only component of a marketing strategy.  What was discussed in the piece is normal event promotion.

What promotional events? NASCAR's?


Edited by AustinF1, 01 January 2017 - 17:45.


#176 AustinF1

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 17:44

I don't think they are looking to re-invent the wheel, I think they are looking to add more wheels to the circus.

 

Regarding Swift, she was on a self-imposes hiatus from touring.  She did a one-off show for the GP.  What does that say about the GP to the general public? Sounds to me like it's a pretty big deal.  Now it is unfortunate while people going to the concert where filing in there wasn't some F1 action in the back round to make heads turn, but that wasn't logistically possible.  Again, the idea is to build up a whole weekend, to make the people of that region excited a GP is coming, even if the person that doesn't want to go see the GP, but just wants to experience the concert and/or street parties that come with it.  I would bet a large sum more people mull around Montreal's downtown festivities during GP weekend than attend the race - sellout or not.

This is all about increasing the spectacle in general, and importance and impact to the region hosting the GP.  Just like the Super Bowl is more than a game, GP weekends need to be more than a race.  P.T. Barnum stuff.

I didn't mean that they're looking to reinvent the wheel. What I was referring to is COTA's talk of this being a new and innovative strategy, as if they have reinvented the wheel, or similar media accounts of COTA's or Liberty's approaches being something new. None of this is new.

 

Re: Swift doing a one-off show for F1 ... she did a one-off show to promote her new release and put a lot of money in her pocket. $4-5M from what we've heard.

 

 

You can increase the spectacle, the diversions, the P.T. Barnum bs and all of that. You can tack on other events to make the real event seem bigger and more impressive,  but until the product on the track is more appealing to racing fans, F1 as a sport and as a business will continue its long decline.


Edited by AustinF1, 01 January 2017 - 18:09.


#177 Nathan

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 17:56

That's fair, but until the product on the track is improved, does that mean everything else is on hold?  Should Liberty just do little to nothing to the fan experience until it can influence the next set of technical regulations?  I think this is a good way to build goodwill down the line with future fans.  And besides, I really, really don't think the on track product across the whole season today is lesser to the peak years from say '95 to '08.  I've been watching a lot of races from that span.  I just don't see it personally.


Edited by Nathan, 01 January 2017 - 17:57.


#178 AustinF1

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 18:07

That's fair, but until the product on the track is improved, does that mean everything else is on hold?  Should Liberty just do little to nothing to the fan experience until it can influence the next set of technical regulations?  I think this is a good way to build goodwill down the line with future fans.  And besides, I really, really don't think the on track product across the whole season today is lesser to the peak years from say '95 to '08.  I've been watching a lot of races from that span.  I just don't see it personally.

Maybe they can do something for the actual fan experience, maybe in the way Melbourne has always done at the track - with all sorts of music and other performances, air shows, etc mixed into the schedule every day rather than having some big concert or something well after the racing fans have left the circuit. Or maybe they can encourage circuits to have events and fan areas in town the way they have always done in Montreal. But I don't see Liberty paying for that kind of thing, but rather just trying to encourage circuit promoters to do it. 


Edited by AustinF1, 01 January 2017 - 19:39.


#179 Clatter

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 18:14

That's fair, but until the product on the track is improved, does that mean everything else is on hold?  Should Liberty just do little to nothing to the fan experience until it can influence the next set of technical regulations?  I think this is a good way to build goodwill down the line with future fans.  And besides, I really, really don't think the on track product across the whole season today is lesser to the peak years from say '95 to '08.  I've been watching a lot of races from that span.  I just don't see it personally.

 


Without getting the basics right the rest of the stuff will just be a waste of time. Plus it doesn't really look to be doing much for the fans, it just looks like money making opportunities that could just as easily be done without any tenuous F1 link.

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#180 RECKLESS

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 18:17

Here is some footage of the Taylor Swift concert at COTA:

https://www.youtube....h?v=a5WrYF2blPk

Not sure how any of it gives any visibility for F1. If you sat a random person down and asked them to watch the video they probably wouldn't even twig that it was held at a race track.

They don't realize she ain't singing live either.

#181 Nathan

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 18:24

Without getting the basics right the rest of the stuff will just be a waste of time.

 

How are the basics worse today than between say '95 and '08?



#182 loki

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 19:23

And that is the major drawback, quality circuits tend to be built where land is relatively cheap, some distance from cities; F1 needs another street circuit like a hole in the head, that is definitely not the way forward, they have already tried L Vegas once.

 

Vegas has changed considerably since the Caesars race.  Now 43 million a year come for a variety of entertainment options (320k are in town right now).  It's the largest adult tourism destination in the country.  Gaming isn't the primary money maker these days.  In addition to the 145k plus hotel rooms, there is a density of 5 star accommodations and restaurants higher than anyplace in the world.  It's easy and cheap to get to and lodging and other amenities are plentiful.   A big draw would be from So Cal where F1 isn't likely to get a date as long as Indycar is running in Long Beach.

 

 

Road Atlanta is not that removed from metropolitan areas, Watkins Glen similarly, there are others. the obvious advantage is they already exist and can be upgraded, presumably cheaper than starting from scratch.

Finally I see little evidence presented that urban residents like NYC people are salivating for F1. Any attempt to build a temporary circuit would guarantee lawsuits, Many people would be opposed, many are opposed to autos even existing.

 

 

The metro tri state New York area was wishful thinking.  Weehawken and the surrounding area has in effect become a borough of NYC.   It was a long shot to begin with but having a race there is simply not reality.   The classic US circuits won't be upgrading to Grade 1 standards.  Too expensive for the payback.  It's not a good business decision.  Those tracks are profitable doing what they do now.  Why invest $100 mil in upgrades and neuter the track for a once a year event?  If F1 wish to race there they should race there as the track is, with temporary garage and paddock setups.  While some of the hospitality infrastructure requirements may be more flexible with the new owners, circuit changes to gain Grade 1 status will change the track in ways that significantly alter the circuit and likely eliminate most of the thing that give those places the character they have.

 

 

I am disappointed that Liberty may simply be following Bernie's model F1 absolutely has to be in Place A; I would say find the quality circuit and build the attraction there, gradually. Which we already have in COTA; they should do everything to make this USGP successful

with long term planning

 

 

It's vastly different than what Ecclestone was doing.  He was selling the race to the highest bidder.  There is no promotion or cooperation in sponsor activation.  His modern media footprint is embarrassing.  Ecclestone is a one trick pony with a business model decades old.  He and CVC have taken out a great deal from the sport and have offered little in return.  He's managed F1 in a way that is best for him and not the sport or the fans.

 

COTA is in a poor location for the rest of the country.  Flights are fairly limited compared to a major metropolitan area.  The hospitality industry erred in price increases that chased many away.  They've gotten better but they still lack a lot of capacity in the mid range level.  That's not surprising given the market, they don't need that many rooms except for SxSW or perhaps the race.  It's a great city, I love it.  But for the time and price to go to COTA or Montreal for that matter, I can go to any of the races in Europe.  Great circuit, wonderful city just not the best location for an F1 race.  Those fans by and large are clustered in the big metropolitan areas on the coast.  COTA got the tax reimbursement to offset the race fee but the money maker on that property is the concert venue.



#183 AustinF1

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 19:39

Oh, and something else Melbourne does better than any other GP that I know of: They have an absolutely jam-packed schedule with more on-track racing hot sessions than anyone, across 4 days, with 4 V8SC races, Historics, Australian GTs, Porsche Carrera Cup and/or Ferrari Challenge, Formula SAE, speed comparisons, and more.

 

- 5 F1 sessions

- 4 V8SC races + 2 FPs + Q

- 4 Porsche Carrera Cup races + FP + Q

- 4 Australian GT races + FP + Q

- 4 Historics demos 

 

+ 4 RAAF Roulettes Air Shows & 4 RAAF F18 demos + all the music, stunt demos, etc all day every day. At the track.

 

It's unbelievable. All that in a 4 day F1 weekend. Amazing value. I can't think of anything else that comes even close to that. Can't wait to get down there for their GP.

 

I've said it since F1 was announced for Austin ... that (Melbourne) is the model we should be attempting to emulate at the circuit, and Montreal is what we should emulate back in town. I believe the same thing now in regard to Liberty. If they want to change the F1 weekend fan experience, these are the places they need to be drawing their inspiration from, IMHO. Most places probably can't or just won't pull off these types of events, though.


Edited by AustinF1, 01 January 2017 - 20:36.


#184 MargaretM37

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 20:26

Turn F1 into Superbowl? Nothing more likely to put me off, I'm afraid. Liberty need to understand that not all of the world shares America's taste for a big, brash show.



#185 Clatter

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 20:45

Oh, and something else Melbourne does better than any other GP that I know of: They have an absolutely jam-packed schedule with more on-track racing hot sessions than anyone, across 4 days, with 4 V8SC races, Historics, Australian GTs, Porsche Carrera Cup and/or Ferrari Challenge, Formula SAE, speed comparisons, and more.

 

- 5 F1 sessions

- 4 V8SC races + 2 FPs + Q

- 4 Porsche Carrera Cup races + FP + Q

- 4 Australian GT races + FP + Q

- 4 Historics demos 

 

+ 4 RAAF Roulettes Air Shows & 4 RAAF F18 demos + all the music, stunt demos, etc all day every day. At the track.

 

It's unbelievable. All that in a 4 day F1 weekend. Amazing value. I can't think of anything else that comes even close to that. Can't wait to get down there for their GP.

 

I've said it since F1 was announced for Austin ... that (Melbourne) is the model we should be attempting to emulate at the circuit, and Montreal is what we should emulate back in town. I believe the same thing now in regard to Liberty. If they want to change the F1 weekend fan experience, these are the places they need to be drawing their inspiration from, IMHO. Most places probably can't or just won't pull off these types of events, though.

 


How many people actually turn up for the other events? Silverstone has a decent amount of support races GP2, GP3, Porche Supercup, but it's amazing how many don't bother to watch them. The Red Arrows display on race day and there is usually a display of some sort on Friday and Saturday.

#186 AustinF1

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 20:48

How many people actually turn up for the other events? Silverstone has a decent amount of support races GP2, GP3, Porche Supercup, but it's amazing how many don't bother to watch them. The Red Arrows display on race day and there is usually a display of some sort on Friday and Saturday.

Haven't been yet, but from what I can tell from photos & video, there appear to be good crowds at least for the V8SC races, the air shows, and in the concert areas.



#187 Tsarwash

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 20:56

You're not answering how that would happen though?

 

If they hold another concert next year how is F1 going to be promoted to those concert goers? And why wasn't F1 promoted to the people who attended the Taylor Swift concert this year?

 

The race and the concerts are being treated as unrelated events that happen to take part in the same location.

I imagine the crossover of people who would attend a Taylor Swift concert and those who would pay to go to a GP would be extremely small. Perhaps try getting musicians that existing fans of F1 actually like.



#188 Clatter

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 21:41

Haven't been yet, but from what I can tell from photos & video, there appear to be good crowds at least for the V8SC races, the air shows, and in the concert areas.

 


How well attended are the support races in Austin?

#189 Clatter

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 21:42

I imagine the crossover of people who would attend a Taylor Swift concert and those who would pay to go to a GP would be extremely small. Perhaps try getting musicians that existing fans of F1 actually like.

 


How many would pay for both anyway, considering how expensive they are?

#190 ExFlagMan

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 21:50

Not sure that any extra promotion is required for the British GP, given they appear to be having to up the capacity each year. And this is at a track that is not exactly on the doorstep of any major (or even minor) city. I bet many current GP promotors would be quite happy to have a weekend attendance anywhere close to the 88,000 quoted for Friday attendance at a recent BGP.

Bernie and F1 in particular seems intent on requiring a 'fixed' timetable that appear to be aimed at precluding any extra 'events'.

#191 D28

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 21:54

COTA is in a poor location for the rest of the country.  Flights are fairly limited compared to a major metropolitan area.  The hospitality industry erred in price increases that chased many away.  They've gotten better but they still lack a lot of capacity in the mid range level.  That's not surprising given the market, they don't need that many rooms except for SxSW or perhaps the race.  It's a great city, I love it.  But for the time and price to go to COTA or Montreal for that matter, I can go to any of the races in Europe.  Great circuit, wonderful city just not the best location for an F1 race.  Those fans by and large are clustered in the big metropolitan areas on the coast.  COTA got the tax reimbursement to offset the race fee but the money maker on that property is the concert venue.

All very valid points. But, COTA is the only site at present with a contract. I have concluded than stability is more important than the ideal location. Bernie made a mockery of sound business deals over the past 25 years by signing any paper with promoters then pulling the rug out with new partners. These investors should be given ample time to grow their event before, moving to another group.  Not the perfect place, but a descent circuit and one that could work over time. Watkins Glen was not the perfect spot either, but it was the spiritual home of F1 in US for 20 years. F1 has struggled ever since leaving, with the possible exception of Long Beach. If they had remained in upstate NY and invested a fraction of the money going to Dallas, Phoenix, Caesars Palace, Detroit etc. F1 would not be in the precarious state it is now. Plus NASCAR would not have had such an easy time filling the vacuum.

Traditions and habit take time to form and COTA should be given it; one USGP and no talk of alternatives for now at least. Growing the F1 brand in US will be an enormous task which will not be helped by constantly wishing, hoping for the perfect geographic location to present it in.



#192 Tsarwash

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 22:00

 Not the perfect place, but a descent circuit and one that could work over time.

It that the opposite of a Hill Climb ? (sorry.)



#193 AustinF1

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 22:03

All very valid points. But, COTA is the only site at present with a contract. I have concluded than stability is more important than the ideal location. Bernie made a mockery of sound business deals over the past 25 years by signing any paper with promoters then pulling the rug out with new partners. These investors should be given ample time to grow their event before, moving to another group.  Not the perfect place, but a descent circuit and one that could work over time. Watkins Glen was not the perfect spot either, but it was the spiritual home of F1 in US for 20 years. F1 has struggled ever since leaving, with the possible exception of Long Beach. If they had remained in upstate NY and invested a fraction of the money going to Dallas, Phoenix, Caesars Palace, Detroit etc. F1 would not be in the precarious state it is now. Plus NASCAR would not have had such an easy time filling the vacuum.

Traditions and habit take time to form and COTA should be given it; one USGP and no talk of alternatives for now at least. Growing the F1 brand in US will be an enormous task which will not be helped by constantly wishing, hoping for the perfect geographic location to present it in.

The vacuum NASCAR filled was mostly left by IndyCar. They would have grown regardless of what F1 did. 

 

Re: Growing the F1 tradition at COTA, I'd love to see it happen, but based on what COTA has done so far I have little faith in their ability to make that happen. But who knows. Maybe that will improve going forward.


Edited by AustinF1, 01 January 2017 - 22:12.


#194 AustinF1

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 22:09

How well attended are the support races in Austin?

Not bad, not great, but there's not much in the way of support races at the USGP (much like many other GPs, I imagine). I guess the longer gaps between track action might affect how many people hang around to watch.



#195 Nathan

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 22:16

How well attended are the support races in Austin?

I only went to the inaugural, but not very well.  There was Ferrari Challenge race prior to the GP, but most didn't bother to show until after.  It wasn't until anthem time the place was packed.



#196 Clatter

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 23:12

I only went to the inaugural, but not very well.  There was Ferrari Challenge race prior to the GP, but most didn't bother to show until after.  It wasn't until anthem time the place was packed.

 


Thats pretty much the same at Silverstone. The stands are also packed for Q, but there is plenty of space as soon as its ended. It's not a big sample, but more support races probably won't attract anyone.

#197 Clatter

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 23:19

Not sure that any extra promotion is required for the British GP, given they appear to be having to up the capacity each year. And this is at a track that is not exactly on the doorstep of any major (or even minor) city. I bet many current GP promotors would be quite happy to have a weekend attendance anywhere close to the 88,000 quoted for Friday attendance at a recent BGP.

Bernie and F1 in particular seems intent on requiring a 'fixed' timetable that appear to be aimed at precluding any extra 'events'.

 


Have to agree, but I do think all involved take things for granted and don't do anything much to engage with the fans. Even the old Silverstone Village is a shadow of it's former self, with only Pirelli having a stand.

#198 D28

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 23:49

The vacuum NASCAR filled was mostly left by IndyCar. They would have grown regardless of what F1 did. 

 

Re: Growing the F1 tradition at COTA, I'd love to see it happen, but based on what COTA has done so far I have little faith in their ability to make that happen. But who knows. Maybe that will improve going forward.

Sorry to hear that, but not surprised. For each failed F1 site, and to my incomplete list above add the spectacular Indy debacle, the credibility of F1 declines further. I cannot imagine investors putting their own money a risk for yet another venue, but there seems no shortage of talk at least. Was the viability of COTA severely threatened by awarding Mexico a race, or did the organizers foresee that possibility?



#199 AustinF1

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 00:04

Thats pretty much the same at Silverstone. The stands are also packed for Q, but there is plenty of space as soon as its ended. It's not a big sample, but more support races probably won't attract anyone.

I think more isn't necessarily the key. Better and more diverse is more important imho. V8SC, even non-points races, will draw a crowd pretty much any time, and there's something for everyone at the Melbourne event.


Edited by AustinF1, 02 January 2017 - 00:05.


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#200 AustinF1

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 00:08

Sorry to hear that, but not surprised. For each failed F1 site, and to my incomplete list above add the spectacular Indy debacle, the credibility of F1 declines further. I cannot imagine investors putting their own money a risk for yet another venue, but there seems no shortage of talk at least. Was the viability of COTA severely threatened by awarding Mexico a race, or did the organizers foresee that possibility?

I don't know for sure, but I have to think they knew that was at least a possibility. If not, and they were counting on hordes of Mexican nationals coming up for the GP every year, then that seems like pretty poor business planning at best. But imho the numbers of Mexican nationals coming to COTA has always been vastly exaggerated. There are a whole lot of Mexican-Americans and other folks of Latin heritage living in Texas.