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One make races in Historic meetings - a bad trend?


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#1 mariner

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 11:36

If I am just being an old grump about this I will make a new years resolution to behave better in 2017 (!) but..

 

Looking back at 2016 I see that the Goodwood Revival held a one make A35 race and the Lavant Cup was run for 1930-1950's BMW engined cars to “celebrate the company’s anniversary".

 

Is it just me or is there as danger of historic racing going down the same ( to my mind) slippery slope as modern racing where one make/spec series now dominate often helped by big manufacturer support. These series now have no car diversity or development and present a grid full of identical cars, watched usually by sparse crowds.

 

I'm not naive; I know that sports car clubbies once meant just Lotus Eleven's and F3 meant 90% Brabhams at times let alone FoMoCo pushing F Ford. However to me at least the joy of an Historic event is the diversity of cars both in the paddock and on the track. You see all the cars mixed up in the Paddock and often mixed on track.

 

I have this feeling that one make racing might get pushed into Historic on the grounds of " equal  cars so it’s a drivers race", or more commercially a large cheque from one of the deep pockets mfgrs will encourage these races. No offence to Porsche, BMW or MB but you can see at events like Kop Hill how they take a larger and larger space for car displays because the crowds contain their target audience of affluent customers and the organisers can hardly refuse the money when it’s done for charity. Big historic events have the same audiences so I can see that type of mfgr.  encouraging one make/tribute series as good logical marketing.

 

Maybe I’m but old but my impression is that one make series have harmed modern racing both for spectators and for engineering. Having spent many happy hours searching out the odd and unusual cars at Silverstone/Goodwood etc I would be sad if one make races start to push out the diversity we see today.

 

BTW I understand the " its better for drivers to have a A35 only race" but I can appreciate it when a driver in a mixed race gets a car which underperformed in period onto the podium or does giant killing act on bigger cars.

 



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#2 sabrejet

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 12:41

Depends on type and variety: I'd take a grid full of 917's any day of the week, but a programme full might be a bit much.

 

The A35/40s were great to watch at Revival on the Saturday (wet); but less so the following day when it was dry and sunny.

 

So I'd say they have their place, but not at every meet, and I'd restrict one-makes to a different type at any successive meet, with only one, one-make race on any programme.



#3 stuartbrs

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 12:45

I don't like them... 

 

But, at the local Historic meeting at Baskerville there is a Mini only race and it is always superb. 



#4 Allan Lupton

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 14:36

It must depend on what "Historic Meetings" are supposed to be.

When the first Goodwood Revival was planned it was intended to revive the format and content of Goodwood meetings of the 1950s. We were even asked to handicap some races for it.

That event and the other big meetings seem to have become races for "Historic cars" in modern formats and I gather that Goodwood now has races for cars that are too modern to ever have raced at Goodwood in period.

The idea of equal cars making the result depend on the drivers seems inappropriate for "Historic Racing" as twas never like that in period. What's more totally equal cars may give close racing but, as we can see on our TVs, greater risks (and sometimes great foolishness) have to be taken in order to do well.

My interest in the history of our cars and our sport does not really extend to the current "Historic racing" although I do believe that a racing car, however old, should be raced. As has been said,  that's what it's for - no use just sitting and looking at it.

The last bastion of non-one-make racing seems to be the VSCC and there have been several cases of "Historic Drivers" in retirement driving in VSCC races, as there are also "Historic Rally Drivers" in its Rallies!



#5 john aston

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 15:09

I have said it before - the only one make series which really cut it were BMWM1 Procars and TVR Tuscans . I would far rather see half a dozen A35s dice it out with Minis and Jags, Anglias and Mustangs (other nice old cars are also available )than a dead heat of A35 Continuations .Or are they A35 Evos ? :drunk:   ,



#6 sabrejet

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 16:28

I have said it before - the only one make series which really cut it were BMWM1 Procars and TVR Tuscans . I would far rather see half a dozen A35s dice it out with Minis and Jags, Anglias and Mustangs (other nice old cars are also available )than a dead heat of A35 Continuations .Or are they A35 Evos ? :drunk:   ,

 

XJR-15s not cut the mustard then?



#7 Bob Riebe

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 18:54

Same crap, same pile racing is what started racing down the road to a sluice pit a long time ago.

 

It is boring.

I went to see which make of vehicle or engine was the best that day or trying hard to catch up.

I had drivers I liked but never, ever attended anything to watch a driver unless that driver had a car I wanted to see.



#8 arttidesco

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 01:27

For better or worse motorsport is primarily a participant sport and events where there are significant numbers of spectators, such as Goodwood are the exception rather than the rule, this means events such as those for the twin carb A35's are designed to appeal primarily to entrants and the appeal for entrants at Goodwood is no doubt increased by the presence of some form of television.

 

As a live spectator of historic events spec series have their ups and downs as entertainments just as any other series, I find the one make series celebrating anniversaries such ERA's, Coopers, Bristol powered, Jaguar powered far more interesting technically than a spec series and it should not be forgotten some open series for example saloon cars tend to see fleets of Cortina's pitted against fleets of Anglia's, Galaxies, Mustangs, Mini's, Imps and BMW's but the odd Westminster, Triumph, Vanguard, Vauxhall, Volvo, Mercury and or Plymouth always get my attention even if they are not in the thick of the entertaining action.

 

At the end of the day what ever form a series takes as long as there are at least two competitors battling for the win I feel I have got my monies worth and if there is some variety in the field that is an anoraks bonus  ;)



#9 john aston

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 08:04

XJR-15s not cut the mustard then?

 I was only commenting  on what I have seen trackside - everything else is just stuff on the telly. 2D images, awful sound and somebody else deciding what I should see.

 

With that caveat what I recall of XJR 15s was badly handling , nice sounding cars , being crashed into one another by people who should have known  better.    



#10 Stephen W

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 09:52

I quiet enjoyed the Wet A35 race but I 'opted out' of the dry one on the basis that it would be liable to become a BTCC crash fest. This allowed me to do other things before returning to my PC for the rest of the card.

 

Overall I dislike one make/model racing however I have to agree that the BMW Procars and the Tuscans were notable exceptions. Dependant on the circuit I also enjoyed the Alfasud races but it had to be a slipstreamer!



#11 Sharman

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 11:55

I quiet enjoyed the Wet A35 race but I 'opted out' of the dry one on the basis that it would be liable to become a BTCC crash fest. This allowed me to do other things before returning to my PC for the rest of the card.
 
Overall I dislike one make/model racing however I have to agree that the BMW Procars and the Tuscans were notable exceptions. Dependant on the circuit I also enjoyed the Alfasud races but it had to be a slipstreamer!


On the whole one make leaves me cold but as with anything there are exceptions, that which I recall most vividly being the R5Turbos (mid-engined) slipstreaming so closely that the violent overun flames and explosions charred the bodywork of the following car.

#12 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 16:00

One of my complaints about one-make racing is what it does to other classes...

A competitor with a genuine competition car might be drawn in because of availability of races or something to 'invest' in the one-make car and therefore leave a car we really want to see at home.

#13 mariner

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 16:35

One of my complaints about one-make racing is what it does to other classes...

A competitor with a genuine competition car might be drawn in because of availability of races or something to 'invest' in the one-make car and therefore leave a car we really want to see at home.

 

That is my main concern with any growth in one-make races within historic race meetings. People will buy, prepare and thus race only those cars for which they can get entries.

 

If some third party with funds tilts the  availalble race  spaces towards one-make series the thing wil become self-fulfilling.

 

No offence to FOS, Silverstone Classic or anybody but they are running a very costly business and money, espeically up front. might  talk.


Edited by mariner, 31 December 2016 - 16:36.