35 replies to this topic

[vale61]

Hi everybody,

a question about this car

Does anyone confirm the colour  black and not dark blue?

The doubt is because Rob Walkers Racing usually used the dark blue.  

Thanks.

Vale.

And happy new year for all TNF people.

[Barry Boor]

No, dark blue. Rob Walker's blue may have been a little lighter but not much.

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

Dark blue for sure

[MCS]

"Thirded" - dark blue.  Harry Stiller/Custom Made colour scheme.  Always thought that car looked really good - there are some super images on t'internet if you have a look around.

[Michael Ferner]

What a great picture!

[arttidesco]

Dark Blue somewhere twixt AAR Eagle blue on the light side and Walter Wolf blue on the dark side   

[David Lawson]

 

You can clearly see that it was dark blue. One of my grainy Kodacolour prints from 1974 with Jones leading Crawford in the Stiller Formula Atlantic team.

 

David

[opplock]

A most interesting photo. John Nicholson in third I assume. The yellow flag man at post 4 is placing huge faith in the skill of drivers although I note that he appears to looking towards Paddock not Druids. These days we stay behind the Armco. I've had to take evasive action on several occasions over the years due to incoming cars, always seemingly aiming for the flag point.  

[jcbc3]

Since the OP question seems to have been answered, I'll run with the OT here:

I only started (and ended) marshalling in the eighties, but we were instructed in no uncertain terms to:

1) Stand BEHIND the protection you are afforded
2) Have your BACK to the coming cars
3) Hold the flag in the hand nearest to the track, so you don't have to swiwel to get it out fast

I would think this is still gospel.

[vale61]

Many thanks to everybody.

Ciao Vale.

[MCS]

 

You can clearly see that it was dark blue. One of my grainy Kodacolour prints from 1974 with Jones leading Crawford in the Stiller Formula Atlantic team.

 

David

Actually Dave Morgan in the (by then) Custom Made/Harry Stiller backed Chevron, not Crawford.

 

David - opplocks's comment is interesting as didn't you post a picture of somebody spinning or stopped by that marshal post - or am I dreaming?!

[uechtel]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the connection to Rob Walker Racing? Were they the operative team behind the Stiller entries? The last thing I know from my sources was, that Walker teamed together with Surtees in 1970 and that the cooperation ended in 1973. So what activities did Walker continue after this?

 

Also, for that Hesketh, I learn from a German yearbook, that after a couple of races in the Stiller colours it later reappeared as a works car again. That made me conclude, that it might have been rather borrowed than bought and while nominally entered under Stiller Racing still operated by the 'factory' team. So I would appreciate very much to learn a little bit of the background stories of the diverse Hesketh team(s) in 1975 and afterwards.

[Cirrus]

Why not ask Harry Stiller? He's on Facebook.

[john winfield]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the connection to Rob Walker Racing? Were they the operative team behind the Stiller entries? The last thing I know from my sources was, that Walker teamed together with Surtees in 1970 and that the cooperation ended in 1973. So what activities did Walker continue after this?

 

 

 

Uechtel, just a small point. After the Jo Siffert years Rob Walker ran Graham Hill in 1970, chiefly in a Lotus 49 until the 72 was ready later in the season. I think that was the final year of Rob Walker Racing proper, although he took his Brooke Bond - Oxo sponsorship to Surtees in 1971 or 1972. I'm not sure exactly how this worked, when it finished, and whether Walker's interest was in the entire Surtees team, or primarily in the Mike Hailwood car. OT I realise, but someone here will know!

[Wirra]

There is a bit here in Jones' own words.

 

http://motorsportm8....iew-alan-jones/

[David Lawson]

Frustratingly I can no longer quote posts since the site update.

 

Regarding post 11 by MCS - I relied on memory hence my mixing up Morgan and Crawford, it was 43 years ago, I should have looked it up.

 

Regarding the marshal, the direction he is looking in does contravene instructions given to all marshals, I was always told to stand with my back to the cars when I was on the yellow flag.

 

David

[arttidesco]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the connection to Rob Walker Racing? Were they the operative team behind the Stiller entries? The last thing I know from my sources was, that Walker teamed together with Surtees in 1970 and that the cooperation ended in 1973. So what activities did Walker continue after this?

 

Also, for that Hesketh, I learn from a German yearbook, that after a couple of races in the Stiller colours it later reappeared as a works car again. That made me conclude, that it might have been rather borrowed than bought and while nominally entered under Stiller Racing still operated by the 'factory' team. So I would appreciate very much to learn a little bit of the background stories of the diverse Hesketh team(s) in 1975 and afterwards.

 

List of entrants for 308-1 here makes interesting reading.

 

Why not ask Harry Stiller? He's on Facebook.

 

 

Uechtel, just a small point. After the Jo Siffert years Rob Walker ran Graham Hill in 1970, chiefly in a Lotus 49 until the 72 was ready later in the season. I think that was the final year of Rob Walker Racing proper, although he took his Brooke Bond - Oxo sponsorship to Surtees in 1971 or 1972. I'm not sure exactly how this worked, when it finished, and whether Walker's interest was in the entire Surtees team, or primarily in the Mike Hailwood car. OT I realise, but someone here will know!

 

It would appear the Brooke Bond - Oxo Rob Walker sponsorship was initially for John Surtees for the whole of the 1971 season and extended to a second car for Mike the Bike at the end of the 1971 season, Surtees ran two cars with Brooke Bond - Oxo sponsorship throughout much of '72 for Mike and Tim Schenken with Carlos Pace getting a ride late in the season, for '73 Brooke Bond - Oxo sponsorship continued for Mike and Carlos but does not appear to have been extended to third Surtees driver Jochen Mass.

[MCS]

Interesting Artti.

 

I always thought the Carlos Pace Surtees looked slightly odd in that it often carried Brooke Bond and Cafe Do Brasil sponsorship.  "Tea or coffee, sir?"  (Er, both, please...) 

 

The third car for Mass was financed by Ford Germany, was it not?

Edited by MCS, 02 January 2017 - 13:40.

[uechtel]

Thank you for the links and infos. In particular the Jones interview is nice reading. Nevertheless it is still unclear to me how was the cooperation between Stiller, Walker and Hesketh. For Stiller I learn from this thread that he had run a Formula Atlantic team, maybe already in cooperation with Walker. Walker had been involved with Surtees until 1973, but I don´t know whether he went together with Hailwood to McLaren or built up the FA team with Stiller or what else did he do in 1974. And Hesketh, while so far having obviously relied on his Lordship´s money alone started hiring and/or selling cars in 1975, which is very confusing to me. For example as Ertl took over the ex Stiller Hesketh in my German yearbook (Schwab) it is written like he had set up his own team for the rest of 1975, which together with Horsley and the remains of the dissolved works team somehow transformed into the successor works team for 1976...

[RA Historian]

I recall from Walker's writings in Road & Track that he apparently ran the Yardley Mac for Mike Hailwood in 1974.
It was the third works McLaren car, but while Teddy ran the two Marlboro cars for Emmo and Denny, Walker
was in charge of the Yardley car for Hailwood, and after Mike's crash, Hobbs and then Mass. Bear in mind that I
am relying on memory here and the actuality may have been somewhat different.

After McLaren condensed to two cars for 1975 Walker desired to stay involved, so he struck a deal with Harry
Stiller to run the Hesketh for him. Again, a 42 year old recollection here.

In subsequent years Walker had a loose liaison with Wolf, and then Fittipaldi, but while involved, did not run
the teams.

Again, a caveat for my memory.

Tom

[Barry Boor]

I have to admit that I had no idea there was ever any connection between Rob Walker and the Stiller cars.

[MCS]

This is proving to be a good memory test!

 

So, was Rob Walker a sponsor of the Stiller Formula Atlantic team?  For some reason "Rob Walker Garages" rings a bell.  I think, yes, because the "Rob Walker" name appears on the Jones March and the Morgan Chevron.  But did it appear on the March before Jones replaced initial driver Bev Bond when the car was in the original 74B front-radiator spec?

[arttidesco]

This is proving to be a good memory test!

 

  But did it appear on the March before Jones replaced initial driver Bev Bond when the car was in the original 74B front-radiator spec?

 

I don't recall the March 74B ever having a front radiator in fact the 74 series of March single seaters were the first not to have front radiators until something like the 1978 March single seaters IIRC, but to answer your question yes the names Stiller and Walker appeared on Bev's car.

[arttidesco]

I recall from Walker's writings in Road & Track that he apparently ran the Yardley Mac for Mike Hailwood in 1974.
It was the third works McLaren car, but while Teddy ran the two Marlboro cars for Emmo and Denny, Walker
was in charge of the Yardley car for Hailwood, and after Mike's crash, Hobbs and then Mass. Bear in mind that I
am relying on memory here and the actuality may have been somewhat different.





Again, a caveat for my memory.

Tom

 

IIRC Teddy looked after Emmo and Denny in the Texaco Marlboro cars and McLaren's Phil Kerr looked after Mike's #33 Yardley car, while Rob looked after Mike's career. Caveat memory

[MCS]

I don't recall the March 74B ever having a front radiator in fact the 74 series of March single seaters were the first not to have front radiators until something like the 1978 March single seaters IIRC, but to answer your question yes the names Stiller and Walker appeared on Bev's car.

 

Fancy a bet, Ralph?

 

The initial Formula Two / Atlantic 74Bs all had front radiators - except for the works Formula Two team.  And then Bob Harper swapped his Marches for Chevrons, etc., etc.

 

But I can see that Rob Walker's name was indeed on the Bond 74B.

[David Lawson]

 

The front radiator March in my snap from the Race of Champions meeting in 1974.

 

David

[arttidesco]

Fancy a bet, Ralph?

 

The initial Formula Two / Atlantic 74Bs all had front radiators - except for the works Formula Two team. 

 

 

 

I'll accept David Lawsons evidence above, over my memory

[arttidesco]

This is proving to be a good memory test!

 

So, was Rob Walker a sponsor of the Stiller Formula Atlantic team? 

 

As they say in Germany "jaein", meaning Harry Stiller was a director of Rob Walker Motor Group according to one notoriously unreliable font of all knowledge

[Gene]

Hi and Happy New Years to all.

 

As both an aviation and motor racing enthusiast (and I'm sure I'm not the only one here!) can I suggest its what's known as "Corsair Blue".

Its the standard color of the WWII US Navy airplane. Its usually claimed if see it and can't decide if its black or blue, then its Corsair Blue!  

[chr1s]

In the Legends series on sky, Alan talks about how he went to Easton Neston for a seat fitting and how all the Hesketh mechanics could'nt do enough for him, so it would seem Harry Stiller rented the car for A J and Hesketh ran it. When I have a bit more time I'll have a look in Alans book to see if I can find out more.

[chr1s]

Just had a look at the June 1975 issue of Motorsport, Jenks  Spanish Grand Prix report  :- The small Hesketh team was looking quit large, and certainly very impressive with 308/2 and 308/3 for James Hunt. Alongside, in dark blue and advertising Harry Stiller's enterprises and Rob Walkers garages, was 308/1 for Alan Jones.

[D-Type]

Rob Walker never had a monopoly on dark blue racing cars.

[uechtel]

Just had a look at the June 1975 issue of Motorsport, Jenks  Spanish Grand Prix report  :- The small Hesketh team was looking quit large, and certainly very impressive with 308/2 and 308/3 for James Hunt. Alongside, in dark blue and advertising Harry Stiller's enterprises and Rob Walkers garages, was 308/1 for Alan Jones.

So quite an indication that it would have been in fact a disguised works car, only privately financed and entered (like Stommelen´s AMS sponsored Brabham and Surtees entry or the Ceramica Pagnossin cars for de Adamich).

 

The same for Ertl later in the year?

[funformula]

Very interesting inside story from someone who was involved with Ertl´s Hesketh team in 1975.

Seems that Ertl owned 308/1 and run it with his own team

http://www.jonathang...s.com/page3.htm

[chr1s]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the connection to Rob Walker Racing? Were they the operative team behind the Stiller entries?

Apparently, Harry Stiller was a share holder in the Rob Walker Group.

[uechtel]

Very interesting inside story from someone who was involved with Ertl´s Hesketh team in 1975.

Seems that Ertl owned 308/1 and run it with his own team

http://www.jonathang...s.com/page3.htm

Indeed a very interesting read, to see how much more relaxed the Grand Prix Circus had been before it fell victim to professionalism...

 

So it means, that in spite of being entered by the Hesketh team (according to http://www.racingspo...ults/308-1.html) Ertl´s three starts with the Hesketh in 1975 were very much a private operation, while for 1976 he then made a deal with Horsley to become works driver for what was remaining of the team.