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Rennmax - and their creator, Bob Britton


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#201 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 13:07

While I am waiting on some pics from Neil, it looks like Marc has been out to see Bob again...

1217fr_MScockpit.jpg

Here we see, apart from the cockpit space, the framework within which the drop gears will be mounted to allow the driveshaft to be lowered by several inches.

1217fr_MSfrontalview.jpg

Bob is obviously explaining something to Marc here, while we see for the first time the car sitting on its wheels with the bodywork in place. It's really taking shape, as the rear view also shows:

1217fr_MSrearview.jpg

All that work Bob did on the bucks is shining through now. And Les Puklowski's fine work on finishing the molds and pulling the body panels from them.

1217fr_MSsideview.jpg

With many racing cars, this is a very common sight as panels come off to allow preparation or repairs.

Thanks, Marc...

Edited by Ray Bell, 26 April 2018 - 21:20.


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#202 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 16:06

Neil's pics are here, first his two Mk 2 Rennmax Vees:

1217mcclayMk2vees1.jpg

The blue one is ex-Damon Beck, Tony Swan, Phillip Lewis, Anthony Altomonte, Craig Shiel. This car was one of the first Mk 2s built. The orange car is ex-Stephen Hohnen, Robert Barnett, Roy Gilbert, Kevin Stott, Barry Noble and is a 1978 build with chassis number 15.

1217mcclay_Mk2vee.jpg

Neil plays with these a long way from their original home, as he's in Western Australia. He also sent a pic of this poster which was for the Bob Britton/Rennmax tribute meeting run by the HSRCA at Eastern Creek:

1217ECposter.jpg

With the various cars depicted (I think) -

Noel Hall's Rennmax Climax

Mk 1 Vee (or Cee Bee Vee)

Lotus 23 replica (or repair?)

Barrie Garner's hillclimb car

Max Stewart's car?

Ray Hanger's sports car

Peter Williamson's supercharged car

Mk 2 Vee

Lionel Ayers' MRC Repco (based on Matich SR3)

Edited by Ray Bell, 26 April 2018 - 21:21.


#203 Jacer

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 22:57

I think the ex Hohnen car is # 12 log booked mid 1978, the ex Damon car was log booked early 1978.  I've got chassis 14 and it was log booked  2/3/79, there were only 14 if you don't count the Spinks jig car.  The first Mk2 raced in September 1975. Funny story about the Hohnen car. Gary Brook who is Tim Brooks father, Tim raced for us in 2014/2015. I just had chassis 14 back from the sandblasters when Gary turned up. He said "oh a Mk2 Rennmax" I was a bit shocked as this I thought was a fair way out of his era. He told me he had a mate named Steve Hohnen  and he helped Steve finish off his new Mk2 in Bob's backyard about 35 years ago! The chassis numbers  conjecture I suppose as none of them had chassis numbers as far as I know and I think the allocations came from Bob's famous pencil written exercise book of payments. Glad to see Neil got in touch about the nickel bronze. The mk1 in the poster I think is Damon's mk1 currently owned by Dennis Riley, the mk2 is Damon's second mk2 ( originally Colin Moulds) raced currently by Ian Cutcher still in the same unrestored paint from over 30 years ago.



#204 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 02:23

Actually, I think the Mk 1 is the Bob Young car...

My recollection is that those are the colours Bob ran, dark green with a yellow stripe.

#205 Jacer

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 04:44

I'd seen black and white photos of Damon at Amaroo Hill climb in 1967 and the shades looked similar so only a fairly  educated guess. Just checked owner listing on that Mk1, it's a 1966 build,  Bob Young was the first owner, Damon second owner in November 1966, log booked in Jan 67 so there may be something in common colour wise. Ray do you know how many Cee Bees were made? I know they all seemed to eventually be called Rennmaxes. Only reason The first two cars which I'd assume would be Cee Bees the Bob Beasley Yule motors car and the Bob Muir car both which are listed as 1965 cars are missing. The Muir car was involved in the unfortunate drowning at Warwick Farm and reports are of it  being chopped up after that but the Beasley car with the last owner of Harry Crowden seems to have gone missing at the start of 1970. Just trying to fill in some missing info while people have their Rennmax ears on!



#206 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 11:20

Ten were built...

It didn't take long for the 'Cee Bee' name to be overshadowed.

#207 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 07:50

And, having said that, I now see that Crowden entered his car as a Cee Bee Vee in 1968.

#208 Ray Bell

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 20:03

I was able to visit Bob briefly last Friday...

A few pics, first some tidying up of the Corolla-powered car, details not finished when I last saw it:

0118corollacarbalancebar.jpg

It might be merely a road car, but still the full racing car style balance bar is fitted to the brakes. And the standard Corolla instrument panel is being fitted in the dash:

0118corollacardash.jpg

Of course, most progress is being made on the BMW-powered open-wheeler. Bob cut back the standard inlet tracts and had to make up a plenum chamber for the induction system,,,

0118BMWinlet.jpg

Also seen are the beginnings of the pedal/master cylinders arrangements. Note the articulated steering column showing in this pic and also in this one:

0118frontofengine.jpg

Bob's also working on a new tensioner for the alternator/water pump belt here, while the induction plenum is clearly shown.

And the visual impact of seeing the car with its wheels on is actually dramatic:

0118rearviewonwheels.jpg

So it's all coming along pretty well. Bob sees a lot of work ahead on getting this car finished, it may take him most of this year, he feels.

Edited by Ray Bell, 26 April 2018 - 21:22.


#209 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 12:05

Things have been slow at Rennmax Engineering during the hotter weather...

Some here will be aware that Bob has reacted to the heatwave badly. He spent some time in hospital but he's home again and as there's been some relief from the heat he can see getting back to work soon as a real possibility.

He'll welcome visitors, of course.

#210 MarkBisset

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:55

Ray,

Intrigued to know which car this is;

http://abhs.org.au/g...medium=facebook

Chris Frizell an enthusiast popped it up on Bob Williamson's excellent Facebook page on Friday 'Old Motor Racing Photographs-Australia'

'Grand Prix' was released in Oz on 14 July 1967- so I assume (always dangerous) this is shortly thereafter? KB confims the car is Alfa 1.6 16 valve powered.,The question is which chassis is it? Bob didn't get his hands on Hulme's BT23'5' till early 1968 to create that jig.

So, it's either;
.BT23'5' repaired in '68 fitted with the Alfa engine
.The first Rennmax built Mildren in '68 - 'Mildren Alfa' (duly noting and differentiating from the Alfa 2.5 V8 engined Brabham BT23D and Mildren 'Sub')
.Something else in 1967 . The caption says the screening at Avalon is in '66 - not possible as the film wasn't released in Oz then. I'm betting this is '67 but then again the engine may not have been in the country then- my RCN collection is not comprehensive enough to solve this one

Just intrigued to know the answer- KB confirms the mechanic in the white overalls is Bob Grange with Glen Abbey partially obscured near the front wheel by the door.

Top shot isn't it!

#211 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 05:39

Mark, the attachment of the roll bar stay to the top of the roll bar confirms it's the Rennmax-Alfa...

This car first appeared, I am pretty sure, at the September 8 meeting at Warwick Farm. It is described in that report as being 'newly built and still unsorted', so I'd imagine that it didn't get to the theatre until after that meeting.

All signwriting that's visible is there on the car at its first Farm meeting, but the roll bar stay attachment is the key. Very unusual.

There was a bit of a concern at the time about how sturdy a roll bar stay should be. Niel Allen's M4A crash at Lakeside had seen a fairly useful one take the roll bar with it as the engine departed the car and left Niel without rollover protection, this car returned with a very slight and questionable stay.

The car only made two more appearances with this engine, at the Warwick Farm and Lakeside Tasman rounds. On March 3, 1969, it ran at Symmons Plains with the Waggott TC4V.

#212 MarkBisset

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 07:40

Thanks Ray,
I thought that was probably the case- so it's '68 not '67? Please pop up the photo- I just don't know how to do that.
A couple of 'supplementarys';
.how many times was that chassis re-framed? It raced for so long it musta got a freshen along the way? Mind you I don't recall it ever copping a big hit either
.what became of the Alfa engine- did it go into something else in period- I vaguely recall Vin Sharpe has it now, maybe less injection, he is the Melbourne fella who owns the Foley GTAm
Regards,
Mark

Edited by MarkBisset, 05 February 2018 - 07:41.


#213 Tim Murray

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 08:25

Yer tiz:

Cinema1-768x520.jpeg

#214 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 10:17

Originally posted by MarkBisset
.....how many times was that chassis re-framed? It raced for so long it musta got a freshen along the way? Mind you I don't recall it ever copping a big hit either
.what became of the Alfa engine- did it go into something else in period- I vaguely recall Vin Sharpe has it now, maybe less injection, he is the Melbourne fella who owns the Foley GTAm.


Did it go into one of the GTAs or the GTAm?

Or maybe a GTZ?

Frankly, I don't recall what wondrous path that car has taken through history. Allan Grice had it after Stewart... I'm not sure after that.

It's a fair bet the chassis has been replaced in the modern era, it looks superb in modern pics I've seen.

Thanks for posting the pic, Tim...

#215 MarkBisset

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 21:16

Ray,

Not sure the journey of the engine but will ask Vin.

As you say Max Pearson has the Mildren Waggott looking a million bucks but his was a 're-restoration', the hard work was done by Greg Smith down Elwood way before Max, inclusive of chassis repairs. I think Greg had a 1600 Waggott in it whereas Max reunited it with the 2 litre variant with which the car achieved its greatest successes.

The roll call of engines in that car is impressive too, it's something like- 1.6 Alfa 16 valve, Waggott 1.6 16 valve, Waggott 1850/60, Waggott 2 litre, it ran in Singapore with an Alfa 2 litre GTAm engine (there is a pic somewhere on TNF,) it ran with a Lotus/Ford twin-cam in Asia too then back to Waggott 2 litre to Grice

Drivers Bartlett, Stewart M, Stewart Tony, Grice

Any advances on the drivers and engines?!

There are some good photos from the FB post above which I will email to you to pop up, you have so much great stuff on Rennmax here this is a good central place to put them.

Mark

Edited by MarkBisset, 05 February 2018 - 21:18.


#216 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 21:46

Didn't it also have an 1850cc Waggott at one stage?

Tony Stewart, I'm sure, as well as Grice ran it with a Paul England-prepared twin-cam Ford 1600.




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 05 February 2018 - 22:01.


#217 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 23:42

Mark sent these photos to post...

First, the car as refinished by Greg Smith in Melbourne (photos by Greg Smith):

0218fr_MBmildrenwaggottfin.jpg

I'm at odds with the wing on this as it never raced like that...

The nearest it was to that was the bi-wing arrangement at Bathurst (from Mark's website):

0218fr_PT69bathurststewartallencrash.jpg

It had the suspension mounted rear wing...

0218frpt69bathurst_Mildren_Waggott.jpg

It is, however, true that Greg did a nice job of the restoration:

0218fr_MBmildrenwaggottstages.jpg

Mark asks if it had been re-chassised, I can't say, but this Joe Farmer pic of the spare chassis does say another was built:

0218fr_MBJFsparechassis.jpg

And a story from Australian Hot Rod magazine after Australian Autosportsman had been blended into it:

0218fr_HRand_MBmildrenstory1.jpg

0218fr_HRand_MBmildrenstory2.jpg

Thanks for those pics, Mark, an important chapter in the Mildren/Britton alliance and one which put an Australian Championship in Bob's history.

Bob tells me, by the way, that he was at Bathurst for that '69 meeting and a few things stand out in his memory.

Most dramatically, that Max Stewart was talking to Bevan Gibson not long before he went out to drive that fateful race. Max, therefore, started the race with that on his mind... or blanked out of his thoughts.

Another was that the engine had an oil leak. Merv Waggott was there as it was very early in the TC4V development and he readily said he knew how to fix it.

The third was that Merv wasn't happy with the roll bar brace going to the cam cover bolts.

Which raises the issue of that roll bar brace mounting on the roll bar in the theatre picture. You can see that it was changed at the roll bar end some time between that photo and the Bathurst pics.




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 26 April 2018 - 21:24.


#218 TerryS

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 02:29

Ray,
Not sure the journey of the engine but will ask Vin.
As you say Max Pearson has the Mildren Waggott looking a million bucks but his was a 're-restoration', the hard work was done by Greg Smith down Elwood way before Max, inclusive of chassis repairs. I think Greg had a 1600 Waggott in it whereas Max reunited it with the 2 litre variant with which the car achieved its greatest successes.
The roll call of engines in that car is impressive too, it's something like- 1.6 Alfa 16 valve, Waggott 1.6 16 valve, Waggott 1850/60, Waggott 2 litre, it ran in Singapore with an Alfa 2 litre GTAm engine (there is a pic somewhere on TNF,) it ran with a Lotus/Ford twin-cam in Asia too then back to Waggott 2 litre to Grice
Drivers Bartlett, Stewart M, Stewart Tony, Grice
Any advances on the drivers and engines?!
There are some good photos from the FB post above which I will email to you to pop up, you have so much great stuff on Rennmax here this is a good central place to put them.
Mark


Mark, I am surprised to see you nominate Tony Stewart as a driver of this car? When was that?

#219 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:03

Surfers, Warwick Farm and Sandown Tasman rounds, 1972... possibly more...

When Stewart had his Elfin MR5 and prior to selling the car to Grice.

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#220 MarkBisset

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 08:06

Yep Ray, spot on

Tony Stewart did the Oz '72 Tasman rounds- in fact I've an article done Terry so maybe will put it up on Friday about TS.

Paul England was his mentor and probably funded the deal and looked after the car- Max raced the car to a Singapore GP win fitted with a Paul England/Jack Godbehear Ford twin-cam early in '72 too, so there was probably some quid-pro-quo rather than a lot of $ changing hands.

That Singapore GP win was Max' final biggie in that wonderful car- than as Ray said above Allan Grice raced it in some '72 Gold Star rounds. No idea who had it post Grice 'in period'

Edited by MarkBisset, 06 February 2018 - 08:06.


#221 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 08:45

Jack Godbehear (sp?) was Paul England's workshop overseer or something...

He was also Tony Stewart's uncle as I recall. So there's no doubt that the Stewart/Stewart relationship was based on a bit of give and take.

I was sure Grice ran in 1600 Twin Cam form.

#222 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 11:26

Grice definitely was running the twin-cam 1600...

He took over the car after the Asian sojourn, running it at Oran Park on June 25, Amaroo Park on July 23, Surfers on August 27...

0218fr_MBgricesurfers.jpg

...as pictured here by Graham Ruckert. Then came Warwick Farm the following week and a tangle with Jack Bono after getting below 1:30 in practice, and as far as I can see his final run was at the Farm in November when he was again run off the road.

It was a hopeless time to jump into ANF2 and try to make an impression because his second outing was the first for Larry Perkins with his Campbell and McKay backing. But he did a good job anyway.

Edited by Ray Bell, 26 April 2018 - 21:25.


#223 Allen Brown

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 11:36

Can anyone fill me in on this car in between Max Stewart's last races in it in 1973, and Max Pearson owning it?  I just have a big empty space.



#224 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 13:06

That seems to be a difficult question, Allen...

After going through all the information about Grice's time in the car, following up on the Tony Stewart period, I was thinking, "I think Gricey's borrowed or leased this car from Max!"

As you mention Max driving it in '73 I concluded that could only be in the Far East, and so it was. He ran in the Singapore GP and the Malaysian GP.

But none of that helps us to identify where the car went!

Stewart was well-laden with racing cars at the time. The Lola T330, which he'd campaigned in the US L & M series during the middle part of the year, the MR5, which came out of mothballs to be on loan to John Leffler, and the Rennmax.

Interesting, too, that he apparently entered it as a Rennmax in the Far East...

#225 Allen Brown

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 14:16

Interesting, too, that he apparently entered it as a Rennmax in the Far East...

 

I was intrigued by that too.  Had Stewart fallen out with Mildren?  Or had Mildren disowned the car?



#226 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 14:34

I doubt either of those, Allen...

Just in case you're not aware, Mildren closed down his racing team at the end of 1971. Max bought the car from him.

Perhaps, however, there had been a deal on Max's purchase whereby he called the car a 'Mildren' over the 1971 and 1972 seasons. 'Alec Mildren' was still a major performance/specialised car dealership with the Alfa Romeo agency.

Remember, Max was committed to the belief that a 2-litre car would beat the F5000s. And in 1971 he managed, over the course of the Gold Star series, to do that. But it was obviously becoming harder to achieve.

This could be why he kept the car when he went to F5000, maybe a part of why he put Tony Stewart into it and why he'd do a deal with Allan Grice to run it for the rest of the year in 1972.

But that's all guesswork... maybe Glenn Abbey or even Kevin Bartlett would know?

#227 MarkBisset

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 21:01

Guys,
I've pasted this into the relevant Facebook post- let's see what comes back from KB, Greg Smith and Joe Farmer
M

#228 MarkBisset

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 01:17

Guys,

Here is a summary using Allens existing ORC Rennmax entry as a base, drawing together all of the material inclusive of a response from Greg Smith this morning- with a view to providing Allen's ORC update;

http://www.oldracing...om/rennmax/bn3/

Mildren (Rennmax) Alec Mildren

Fitted with Autodelta Alfa Romeo 1.6 litre 4 valve engine, first raced by Kevin Bartlett at Warwick Farm on 8 September 1968. Put to one side as the team focused on the Brabham BT23D Alfa and Mildren 'Yellow Submarine' Alfa.

Became Max Stewart's car when he joined the Mildren Team in 1969- first raced at the 1969 Lakeside Tasman. Raced in the 1969 Gold Star initially with a Waggott 1.6 TC4V (twin-cam 4 valve) engine and later in the season Waggott 1860. Fitted with Waggott 2 litre from the 1970 Tasman through the 1970 Gold Star, 1971 Australian Tasman rounds and Gold Star- won the 1971 Gold Star.

Raced in the April 1971 Singapore GP powered by a Brian Foley owned Alfa Romeo GTAm 2 litre engine. By the 1971 Gold Star Alec Mildren Racing had ceased, the car was Stewart's but was still entered and called the Mildren Waggott.

Raced by Melbourne's Tony Stewart (no relation) with support from Paul England in the 1972 Australian Tasman Rounds.

Max raced and won the April 1972 Singapore GP powered by a Paul England Lotus/Ford twin-cam. Contested the May 1972 JAF Japanese Grand Prix Waggott 2 litre powered, DNF accident. Returned to Australia and contested some 1972 Gold Star rounds driven by Allan Grice- Paul England twin-cam powered. Max retained ownership of the car.

Raced in the 1973 Malaysian GP 4th, and Singapore GP 7th, by Max, the car entered as 'Rennmax', England powered.

Sold at some point by Max to English born Australian F2/F5000 driver Ken Shirvington.

Sold by Shirvington in 1981 to Greg Smith, Elwood, Victoria- complete car, chassis tag 'AMR003' fitted with BRM twin-cam. Amongst the bits Smith acquired were engine mounts for the Ford 'L Block' Waggott 1600/1860 engines as well as the Waggott bespoke alloy block 2 litre engines. He also had the Japanese GP long-range fuel tanks.

Restored by Smith and fitted with a 234bhp Waggott 1860 FVA after an 8 year search for an engine. In February 2018 it became clear Shirvington sold another bare chassis tagged 'AMR03' to Joe Farmer- Farmer believes the chassis may have been built after the 1969 Easter Bathurst collision between Niel Allen and Stewart. Farmer retains this chassis. (need to confirm who built the chassis with Bob B but their seems no doubt about it being a Rennmax frame)

Greg Smith sold the car to Max Pearson, Queensland who further cosmetically restored the car inclusive of fitment of Waggott 2 litre.

Pearson races the car in historic events together with an Elfin MR5 Repco first owned by Max Stewart in late 1971- the MR5 succeeded the Mildren as his primary tool for 1972.

Ends


Hope this is a help

Mark

Edited by MarkBisset, 08 February 2018 - 05:45.


#229 TerryS

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 02:47

Max Pearson has also taken recently to running a 1966 Brabham BT29 Ford T/C

#230 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 03:25

A couple of little variations to Allen's information...

Regarding Grice's time with the car, he contested the F2 round at Amaroo Park, practised for the combined F5000 and ANF2 race at the September Farm but only ran in an F2 minor race there due to his incident with Bono.

At the November Farm he was in another ten-lapper for the secondary cars, not the main race.

In all of these, as stated previously, he had the Paul England twin-cam 1600 Lotus engine.

With regard to the Malaysian GP on April 18, 1973, John McDonald won in a Brabham BT40, second and third going to the BT40s of Canadian Brian Robertson and Albert Poon. Max Stewart was fourth after a weekend dogged by engine tuning problems, then came Tony Stewart who had a minute penalty added to his time to give him that placing though he beat Max on the road. it is possible Graeme Lawrence was sixth though the brief report doesn't say so.

Retiring from the race were Geoghegan (Birrana), Rajah (March) and Ramsay (Birrana) while Ken Smith also did some 'soldiering on' for a poor placing.

By the way, I have some RCN binders surplus to requirements for years in the sixties and seventies, offers might be accepted.

#231 Allen Brown

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 06:07

Many thanks Mark and Ray. I'm currently waiting for my train to Paris fir Retromobile but will respond properly when I'm back at my desk.

#232 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 07:55

Phone calls I've made today, plus further searching through magazines...

Max must have sold the car directly to Shirvington in mid to late 1973.

In early 1974 he traded the MR5 for Baron Robertson's March 722, with Leffler running this in 1860cc form in two Tasman rounds, Oran Park and Sandown, the Max racing it with the downdraught head twin-cam developed by Paul England.

He ran this at Amaroo Park in a minor race on June 2, then ANF2 title rounds Hume Weir on June 16, Oran Park on June 30, Amaroo on July 21 and that seems to be about the end of it.

I remember at the time that Max said he'd like to continue with the development of that downdraught head. But I guess he had other eggs to fry.

Not that this is very relevant to Rennmaxes, but it shows that Max must have sold the car to Shirvington before getting tangled up with the March.

Shirvington was soon to get his own March, so possibly he bought it to get the Waggott TC4V?

#233 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 08:05

This snippet has to do with the Mildren/Rennmax, however...

History might have been changed if Allan Grice had bought it, and he intended buying it. But something went awry with the deal and Grice pulled out and the car went back to Max.

#234 MarkBisset

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 10:35

All interesting stuff Ray,

I do remember the MR5 trade and that March -1974 really was THE year for ANF2!
When did Gricey first go to tourers? '74ish ?

On point but not entirely is exactly how many Waggott FVA's were built in all 3 capacities? I've never seen a list. Whilst the article above says there were 6 2 litres, the engines popped up in all sorts of places - Gary Campbell's Elfin 600, a Birrana 273, Escort sports sedan etc. Do you have any idea how many moteurs were built? Are bits still capable of being obtained/built?
M

#235 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 12:19

There were more built later...

The original engine built on a Ford block was put to use in the Datsun 1000 Sports Sedan built by Col Wear for David Seldon to drive Waggott's at Alstonville.

I know that when Mildren's were running the two cars and went to NZ with them they had three engines. Then there was the Leo Geoghegan engine for the Lotus 59, one for Harvey's Brabham BT36, Colin Hyam's Matich SR5 and Campbell's 600.

That, I would think, would be the six plus one on the Ford block. Unless there's some overlap there. I see that Malcolm Ramsay had one by about April 1971 in an Elfin 600. So was the Geoghegan engine the one Campbell got?

Regarding Grice and tourers, by which you obviously mean Bathurst and Series Production, he was a non-starter at Bathurst in '72 after blowing his XU-1 engine in practice. I think that was his first time out in it and he continued with that into 1973.

#236 opplock

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 13:23

 Raced in the 1969 Gold Star initially with Waggott 1.6 FVA - and later in the season Waggott 1860 FVA. Fitted with Waggott 2 litre FVA from the 1970 Tasman through the 1970 Gold Star, 1971 Australian Tasman rounds and Gold Star- won the 1971 Gold Star.
 

 

 

I only saw the Waggott powered Mildren cars race once at Levin in Jan 1970 but was impressed when Max Stewart beat everything except Graeme Lawrence's Ferrari 246. Is it correct to describe these engines as FVA? I've only ever seen that term used for Cosworth's 1600cc Formula 2 engine.   



#237 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 20:58

Actually, I would never call it an FVA...

The nomenclature 'FVA' came from Cosworth, it is a designation for their F2 engine and extends to the DFV (Four valve arrangement to Double Four Valve), whereas Merv dubbed his engines 'TC4V' - Twin Cam 4-Valve.

Do people call BDAs 'FVAs'? Never! And they're direct family members.

#238 MarkBisset

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 05:57

Ray,
Agree re FVA, I followed Allens descriptor but let's use Merv's name for his engine!
I've updated the summary inclusive of dropping in the '73 Malaysian GP result you discovered- it's about as far as I can go but I will get in touch with Greg Smith in the next couple of weeks.

Maybe a thread on the Waggott Engines is an idea- or is there one?!

A great wotif is how Merv's 1860 would have gone in the (first 2 litre F2) '72 Euro F2 Championship? His 2 litre was ineligible (block) but the (Ford) 1860 was kosher- and Mike Hailwood won it using 1850 Hart BDA's that year. Surely Merv's engine, ultra-reliable and powerful would have been thereabouts?

#239 Tim Murray

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 06:13

Maybe a thread on the Waggott Engines is an idea- or is there one?!


There is, but as so often happens, all the photos have disappeared:

Waggott

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#240 Ray Bell

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 13:18

I can't even find the original pics that I took of the RCN article for that thread...

Tomorrow I'll go back to that thread and put up both the RCN story and the MRA No 28 story by Graham Howard tomorrow when there's some light to photograph the pages.

In the meantime, and appropriate to the Britton/Rennmax thread, here's one of Bob's best mates...

0218frmemstickrayeldershawandchassis.jpg

Ray Eldershaw, picture taken about 11 years ago. Bob regards Ray, about six years Bob's senior, as incredible for his energy and stamina in the workshop. He's here seen holding a crank alongside the self-built rear-engined sports car he put together for his son, Glenn. Since then he's created a Clubman on one of Bob's Lotus 7 replica chassis, and development is constantly taking place.

Their close relationship has seen a lot of input from Bob into Ray's cars, principally in machining parts Ray can't handle at his place.







.


.

Edited by Ray Bell, 15 February 2018 - 14:26.


#241 Allen Brown

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 15:11

Guys,

Here is a summary using Allens existing ORC Rennmax entry as a base, drawing together all of the material inclusive of a response from Greg Smith this morning- with a view to providing Allen's ORC update;

http://www.oldracing...om/rennmax/bn3/

Mildren (Rennmax) Alec Mildren

Fitted with Autodelta Alfa Romeo 1.6 litre 4 valve engine, first raced by Kevin Bartlett at Warwick Farm on 8 September 1968. Put to one side as the team focused on the Brabham BT23D Alfa and Mildren 'Yellow Submarine' Alfa.

Became Max Stewart's car when he joined the Mildren Team in 1969- first raced at the 1969 Lakeside Tasman. Raced in the 1969 Gold Star initially with a Waggott 1.6 TC4V (twin-cam 4 valve) engine and later in the season Waggott 1860. Fitted with Waggott 2 litre from the 1970 Tasman through the 1970 Gold Star, 1971 Australian Tasman rounds and Gold Star- won the 1971 Gold Star.

Raced in the April 1971 Singapore GP powered by a Brian Foley owned Alfa Romeo GTAm 2 litre engine. By the 1971 Gold Star Alec Mildren Racing had ceased, the car was Stewart's but was still entered and called the Mildren Waggott.

Raced by Melbourne's Tony Stewart (no relation) with support from Paul England in the 1972 Australian Tasman Rounds.

Max raced and won the April 1972 Singapore GP powered by a Paul England Lotus/Ford twin-cam. Contested the May 1972 JAF Japanese Grand Prix Waggott 2 litre powered, DNF accident. Returned to Australia and contested some 1972 Gold Star rounds driven by Allan Grice- Paul England twin-cam powered. Max retained ownership of the car.

Raced in the 1973 Malaysian GP 4th, and Singapore GP 7th, by Max, the car entered as 'Rennmax', England powered.

Sold at some point by Max to English born Australian F2/F5000 driver Ken Shirvington.

Sold by Shirvington in 1981 to Greg Smith, Elwood, Victoria- complete car, chassis tag 'AMR003' fitted with BRM twin-cam. Amongst the bits Smith acquired were engine mounts for the Ford 'L Block' Waggott 1600/1860 engines as well as the Waggott bespoke alloy block 2 litre engines. He also had the Japanese GP long-range fuel tanks.

Restored by Smith and fitted with a 234bhp Waggott 1860 FVA after an 8 year search for an engine. In February 2018 it became clear Shirvington sold another bare chassis tagged 'AMR03' to Joe Farmer- Farmer believes the chassis may have been built after the 1969 Easter Bathurst collision between Niel Allen and Stewart. Farmer retains this chassis. (need to confirm who built the chassis with Bob B but their seems no doubt about it being a Rennmax frame)

Greg Smith sold the car to Max Pearson, Queensland who further cosmetically restored the car inclusive of fitment of Waggott 2 litre.

Pearson races the car in historic events together with an Elfin MR5 Repco first owned by Max Stewart in late 1971- the MR5 succeeded the Mildren as his primary tool for 1972.

Ends


Hope this is a help

Mark

 

This is fascinating stuff.  So can we conclude that the Mildren is the "Rennmax" that Shirvington raced in the ANF2 race at Calder 18 Aug 1974, before getting his March 732?  He had also DNS'd at Amaroo Park four weeks earlier in a "Rennmax".  As Stewart had entered the car as a Rennmax in 1973, it makes sense to me.



#242 Ray Bell

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 15:54

I think someone's going to have to turn up a photo of the car or ask Shirvington...

Just checking up on this, I found this item in the prelude article to the Van Heusen series:

KEN SHIRVINGTON:
Ken raced a few years ago with one of the ubiquitous Lotus 20s brought up to 22 specifications by Rennmax, then disappeared from the scene for a long while before appearing again last year with a Rennmax F2. This could be the car with which Ken will begin the series, but he has had Peter Molloy build a top-line fuel-injected engine which he plans to drop into a Rennmax BN6 or a Lola T360 before too long.


I don't recall hearing of Shirvington before I saw him in F5000, so I don't know what Rennmax he had in 1973. Somebody would. So what we need to know is whether he disposed of that car prior to the August Calder.

In the meantime, he would have had just about enough time to take possession of the car after its return from Asia, prepare and enter it for Calder by that date.

I could well understand him racing it just once if that is the case, by the way. Max had it set up so it required a really aggressive driving style which wouldn't have suited everyone.

#243 Ray Bell

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 16:11

Originaly posted by Ray Bell
.....I know that when Mildren's were running the two cars and went to NZ with them they had three engines. Then there was the Leo Geoghegan engine for the Lotus 59, one for Harvey's Brabham BT36, Colin Hyam's Matich SR5 and Campbell's 600.

That, I would think, would be the six plus one on the Ford block. Unless there's some overlap there. I see that Malcolm Ramsay had one by about April 1971 in an Elfin 600. So was the Geoghegan engine the one Campbell got?.....


Memory refreshes are good...

The Waggott thread reminds me that I forgot Glyn Scott's Elfin 600 Waggott TC4V. So in 2-litre form they went initially to:

Two for Mildrens, Geoghegan, Scott, Jane/Harvey, Malcolm Ramsay and Colin Hyams.

#244 Allen Brown

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 16:55

Mark, did you ascertain what year Greg Smith sold the Mildren-Rennmax to Pearson?



#245 Allen Brown

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 17:32

Memory refreshes are good...

The Waggott thread reminds me that I forgot Glyn Scott's Elfin 600 Waggott TC4V. So in 2-litre form they went initially to:

Two for Mildrens, Geoghegan, Scott, Jane/Harvey, Malcolm Ramsay and Colin Hyams.

 

I don't have a memory of any of this of course, but I do have a database.  Here are all the cars I can find that had a Waggott engine (not including Ford twin cams):

 

1. Mildren (Rennmax) Max Stewart, from Symmons Plains 3 Mar 1969 to Warwick Farm 5 Nov 1972

2. Mildren ('Mono') Kevan Bartlett, from Mallala 13 Oct 1969 to Fuji 5 May 1972

3. Lotus 59 "B" Leo Geoghegan, from Fuji 3 May 1970 to Warwick Farm 5 Sep 1971

4. Elfin 600B [16] Glyn Scott, from Lakeside 7 Jun 1970 to Lakeside 26 Jul 1970

5. Rennmax BN3 ('the Muir car') Bob Muir, from Warwick Farm 12 Jul 1970 to Sandown Park 13 Sep 1970

6. Rennmax BN3 ('the Goodwin car') Bob Muir, Fuji 3 May 1971 and Oran Park 27 Jun 1971 only

7. Elfin 600C [8] Malcolm Ramsay, Mallala 11 Oct 1971 only

8. Brabham BT30/36 John Harvey, from Warwick Farm (AGP) 21 Nov 1971 to Wanneroo Park 7 May 1972

9. Elfin 600B [22] Gary Campbell, from Surfers Paradise 6 Feb 1972 to Fuji 3 May 1972

10. Dolphin ['1'] Tony Stewart, from Symmons Plains 24 Sep 1972 to Adelaide 25 Feb 1973

 

I may be missing many races from this, as I typically only have the Tasman and Gold Star results in my database.

 

So Bob Muir is the other name we should add.  All the others would presumably be second-hand engines.



#246 Ray Bell

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 21:58

I wonder if Jane got Muir's engine as Bob prepared to own the Mildren Mono complete with its own engine?

#247 Ray Bell

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 22:39

Originally posted by Allen Brown
1. Mildren (Rennmax) Max Stewart, from Symmons Plains 3 Mar 1969 to Warwick Farm 5 Nov 1972


I'm not sure about Stewart's car in Tony Stewart's hands, but it's possible he had his Paul England twin-cam in those Tasman races.

If that's the case, that car would have ended its Waggott TC4V career on 21 Nov 1971 at Warwick Farm. If he did use the Waggott, then it ended at Sandown Park on 20 February, 1972. Stewart definitely used the England engine in Singapore and Grice always ran with a twin-cam.

#248 Ray Bell

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 23:13

I finally found Colin Hyams' first turnout in the SR5...

October 18, 1970 at Calder.

#249 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 00:52

Bob Muir bought the second Mildren engine...

The deal with Mildren's was that they bought the 1860 and Merv gave them the development 2-litre engine on loan. Then Mildren bought the second 2-litre version.

When Merv asked for them to pay for the development engine, Alec decided that Max would use the 1860 from that point and Merv got that back and Bob bought it from Merv.

Interesting, particulary from the point of view of this thread, Bob reckoned he should never have bought the Mildren Mono, which he did later on.

"When I drove Kenny Goodwin's Rennmax I realised it was a better car and mine could have been developed the same," he says, "the Mono was too heavy. It was a great car to drive, and at a circuit like Warwick Farm it was good, but overall the Rennmax would have been faster."

Incidentally, the Goodwin Rennmax never had the TC4V in it, whenever Bob raced it the twin-cam was retained.

And he also said that a well-developed Rennmax would have beaten the Birranas!

#250 Team Result

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 01:38

Slightly off topic, but I can't recall whose engine Bill Fanning acquired and ran successfully in his Escort TC4V Sports Sedan.