81 replies to this topic

[Gary C]

Just a quick question, do we know where all the Benettons have ended up? I know some have 'escaped' and used to do the BOSS Formula races, but where have the majority of the cars gone? Do the Benetton family/company still own them or what?

[Ray Bell]

One is in Australia...

It's seen at some Historic meetings, I think it was a Berger car.

[arttidesco]

Three sightimgs I have imclude one at Colin Benetts workshop seen on the TNF outing there some years ago, seen Launa Mglaughlin (spelling ) drive one in Bournemouth and at Silverstone Classic and finally Ghinzahni disposed of his with many other of his race cars including at least one possibly 2 Osellas at Silvertone Classic Auction in 2015 them I believe there was a BMW powered example at Goodwood last year so now I have lost count pics to follow :-)

[superden]

I seem to recall reading an article about a chap who had one, chassis at any rate, in the living room of his terraced house.

[Thundersports]

There are a few about remember though that the tubs were used for more than one season.

Edited by Thundersports, 04 February 2017 - 00:27.

[TennisUK]

Really? As the front of the monocoque looks a different shape on 90/91? On the 191 it has a noticeable undercut to accommodate the high nose, on the 190 it has the up to the then conventional low nose:

 

1990

 

1991

 

Perhaps the 191 tub was instead used by the 192 - which always seemed like a tidied up 191 to me?

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

1 in the Mondello collection ,with a plate on the tub stating not suitable for use ,presume damaged tub

[chunder27]

I would love to see some of the older cars, the Hart engine one for instance. 1985.

 

Think a guy over here has a 193, and I guess plenty are in museums or racing in BOSS with a 4 litre low revving Judd installed.

 

Would imagine there are one or two in the world doing over priced experience days with low gearing and a massively rev limited Judd in the back!

[sabrejet]

There's one in the terminal at Rome Ciampino airport. Didn't seem as busy as some of the other clothing outlets though.

 

But it did give me a chance to get my coat...

[FLB]

United Autosports (Zak Brown) may still have the 191 I saw Stefan Johansson drive at Mont-Tremblant a couple of years ago.

[Henri Greuter]

The IMS museum has had one too .

 

I saw it in 2006 and the info board with it stated it was a 1991 B191B, driven by MS and Patrese (!)   (Photographic approval obtained....)

 

Should of course have been Roberto Moreno and Nelson Piquet instead of Patrese.....

 

I don't know if that info has been updated ever since, given the fact that after 2007 there was no f1 at Indy anymore, hence less reason to put  the car on display.

I asw it in july 2006 when I attended the 2006 USA or IndyGP that year.

Come to think oof it, because of that the car may wel be gone by now, i can't recall having seen it in later years that I was at Indy.

 

 

henri

[FLB]

Henri, I'm thinking this may be the car I saw at Tremblant.

[RA Historian]

Brian French has run a B197 for many years at the Road America historic events. Since Renault
units are rather scarce and expensive to run, Brian's is powered by a 4.2 liter Judd V-10.

[alansart]

I customer of mine has a 190B which he keeps at his house in Altrincham. Well he did in 2015.

[PhantomRaspberryBlower]

I think Benetton built more cars during the 90's than any other F1 team. Or it seemed that way, with chassis numbers usually reaching 8 or 9.

[arttidesco]

Ghinzahni disposed of his with many other of his race cars including at least one possibly 2 Osellas at Silvertone Classic Auction in 2015 them

 

 

I would love to see some of the older cars, the Hart engine one for instance. 1985.

 

 

 

Major anorak failure the Hart powered TG185 was of course a Toleman above, Piercarlo Ghinzani sold this one from his collection for just shy of £31k at Silvrstone Auctions in 2015 sans engine.

 

1 in the Mondello collection ,with a plate on the tub stating not suitable for use ,presume damaged tub

 

 

Martin Birrane listed as the entrant when this B186 car appeared at Goodwood last year is this the same car Edward ?

 

 

B191 at Colin Bennett's CGA Engineering in 2011.

 

 

The Force B192 at Silverstone Classic Press Day,

 

 

driven by Lorina McLaughlin at Wheels Festival Bournemouth,

 

 

and in a Silverstone Classic demonstration.

 

 

Running on what appears to be period correct Goodyear Eagles at Goodwood and

 

 

Silverstone Classic the B193 entered and driven by Stephen Ottavianelli.

 

 

Finally B194 08 entered at Goodwood by Lambda Performance.

[Doug Nye]

One or two are in a Dutch Collection...

 

DCN

[TerryS]

Benetton B186-05 was owned by Les Wright in Australia.

He previously raced an ex UK hill climbing Brabham Buick V8, so there would have been a big step up in power.

The car was advertised for sale in November 2016 for AUD 350K, as attached.

I don't think it sold, and I think he may subsequently have had an accident with it, but can't be sure.

http://www.gizmodo.c...sale-in-sydney/

This ad has some details on other Benetton's whereabouts.

http://www.my105.com...etails/id/14436

[Paul Hamilton]

Benetton B186-05 was owned by Les Wright in Australia.

He previously raced an ex UK hill climbing Brabham Buick V8, so there would have been a big step up in power.

The car was advertised for sale in November 2016 for AUD 350K, as attached.

I don't think it sold, and I think he may subsequently have had an accident with it, but can't be sure.

http://www.gizmodo.c...sale-in-sydney/

This ad has some details on other Benetton's whereabouts.

http://www.my105.com...etails/id/14436

Les sold the Benetton to someone in Adelaide a while back but I don't know just who bought it.  It was in running order and the damage he did when backing it into the wall at Eastern Creek some years ago had long been repaired as described in the my105 advertisement.

[Thundersports]

TennisUK it appears I had been misinformed regarding the B190 and B191 and have edited my post to reflect that my apologies.

[TerryS]

Les sold the Benetton to someone in Adelaide a while back but I don't know just who bought it.  It was in running order and the damage he did when backing it into the wall at Eastern Creek some years ago had long been repaired as described in the my105 advertisement.

Paul, would this be the car driven by Josh Kean at the 2016 Adelaide Motorsport Festival?

[Paul Hamilton]

Paul, would this be the car driven by Josh Kean at the 2016 Adelaide Motorsport Festival?

I expect so, Terry.  I certainly don't know of any other Benetton in oz!

[Peter Morley]

When Renault took over Benetton they didn't want the Benettons and sold them off, with many of them and the spares going to Matthew Mortlock (Heritage-F1 these days) who then distributed them around the world.

e.g. 3 B194s ended up with Kockney Koi for BOSS racing (with HBs rather than Zetec-Rs) and have recently moved to Eastern Europe.

 

Schumacher had some of his cars and they are presumably still on display in the museum at his family's Go-Kart track.

 

Prior to that Benetton probably did something similar with the Tolemans - but would have had a harder time selling most of them!

[FLB]

When Renault took over Benetton they didn't want the Benettons and sold them off, with many of them and the spares going to Matthew Mortlock (Heritage-F1 these days) who then distributed them around the world.

They've kept the Lotus cars, though. Lotus E22-4 (at least according to the chassis plate) was on display at the Montreal International Auto Show last week, at the Infiniti stand. It was made out to the 2016 colours, as an RS16.

[ralt12]

There are B198's in the States.

[Hamish Robson]

I seem to recall Geoff Page restoring a B188 recently - spotted in the background of some pictures

Edited by Hamish Robson, 06 February 2017 - 06:01.

[Peter Morley]

Geoff Page has restored many turbo F1cars: Arrows, Toleman, Haas Lola, Renault, Benetton etc.

 

There is at least one Benetton that isn't a Benetton!

A Birmingham(?) night club had what looked like a Benetton B187  but it was a Beatrice Haas Lola THL2 with Benetton style bodywork and colour scheme but still had the Ford engine etc.

It was apparently made as a show car by Benetton after they had taken over the Ford engine deal and ended up with the car as well.

It might have ended up with Geoff's customer who bought Don Wood's Beatrices and the mountain of spares.

[Gary C]

thanks for all your replies, lads, I had thought there might have been a 'Benetton Museum' where some cars were kept as running examples under the auspicies of the team/family/business, but it seems there have all been spread far and wide.

[arttidesco]

United Autosports (Zak Brown) may still have the 191 I saw Stefan Johansson drive at Mont-Tremblant a couple of years ago.

 

Zak Brown was listed as having a B191 on static display at Goodwood FoS in 2014, sorry no pic.I wonder if this was the same car I saw at CGA engineering see above post 16 ?

[TerryS]

In December 2013 Vintage Racecar did a track test of a Benetton.

This started life as B192-08. Designed by Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn.

It had a Ford HB series V11 engine of 3.5L giving 700 bhp.

The car had a very short racing life with Benetton for some reason unclear.

It competed in the last two GP's of 1992,being Japan and Adelaide.

It then became N193A-08 with a complete overhaul with reworked aerodynamics and cooling system, revised front suspension to handle the new front wheel widths, and a semiautomatic gearbox and active suspension.

It only ran in the first two GP;s of 1993, South Africa and Brazil.

It then had the active suspension removed and put up for sale. The buyer was Lorina McLaughlin who is seen in some photos above in this thread.

It must be confusing to trace histories of these cars when a B192 becomes a B193A, and the suspension is changed back to the passive version of the B192

[arttidesco]

In December 2013 Vintage Racecar did a track test of a Benetton.

This started life as B192-08. Designed by Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn.

It had a Ford HB series V11 engine of 3.5L giving 700 bhp.

 

It then became N193A-08 with a complete overhaul with reworked aerodynamics and cooling system, revised front suspension to handle the new front wheel widths, and a semiautomatic gearbox and active suspension.
 

 

IIRC the Cosworth HB was a narrow angle 75° V8.

 

So not all cars were new cars and at least one has been converted back to original spec

[PAUL S]

There was a complete Johnie Herbert Era Benetton with a Cosworth turbo engine  propped belly up against a wall on its wheels in the entrance to the Sports Cafe in Cardiff Bay in the late 90s I always wondered what happened to that one when the bar closed down. I took a peek behind it a few times and it all looked complete, as raced, never did take any pics though.

[Ibsey]

 

In December 2013 Vintage Racecar did a track test of a Benetton.

This started life as B192-08. Designed by Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn.

It had a Ford HB series V11 engine of 3.5L giving 700 bhp.

The car had a very short racing life with Benetton for some reason unclear.

It competed in the last two GP's of 1992,being Japan and Adelaide.

It then became N193A-08 with a complete overhaul with reworked aerodynamics and cooling system, revised front suspension to handle the new front wheel widths, and a semiautomatic gearbox and active suspension.

It only ran in the first two GP;s of 1993, South Africa and Brazil.

It then had the active suspension removed and put up for sale. The buyer was Lorina McLaughlin who is seen in some photos above in this thread.

It must be confusing to trace histories of these cars when a B192 becomes a B193A, and the suspension is changed back to the passive version of the B192

The below link is a preview of the book a The Mechanic's Tale by Steve Machett.

https://books.google...993&f=false


About halfway down the preview it perhaps explains why the B192-08 had a short history. It seems the B192 chassis was originally supposed to be carried over into 1993, however it did not work on the new for 1993 shorter tyres. So Benetton had to build a new for 1993 Chassis for the weight distribution and suspension geomtry etc. But the 1993 Chassis was not ready until the 3rd race of the season.

Edited by Ibsey, 09 February 2017 - 12:23.

[anhucar]

There´s one B196 (Renault engine) in the "Museo del automóvil termas de Río Hondo" in Santiago del Estero, Argentina   here´s the link  http://www.museoautomovilismo.com.ar/ (click on "formula" )

Edited by anhucar, 11 February 2017 - 17:29.

[Peter Morley]

There was a complete Johnie Herbert Era Benetton with a Cosworth turbo engine  propped belly up against a wall on its wheels in the entrance to the Sports Cafe in Cardiff Bay in the late 90s I always wondered what happened to that one when the bar closed down. I took a peek behind it a few times and it all looked complete, as raced, never did take any pics though.

 

Was it this car - actually a Beatrice Lola THL2 underneath?

I thought it was a Birmingham nightclub but could just as easily have been Cardiff!

 

[PAUL S]

It may well have been that car Peter.

 

In Cardiff it was the other way around though I thought. I recall seeing the 6 pot Cosworth Turbo underneath the bodywork but never took a detailed look at the chassis, that was the colour scheme though.

Edited by PAUL S, 18 February 2017 - 17:51.

[arttidesco]

It may well have been that car Peter.

 

In Cardiff it was the other way around though I thought. I recall seeing the 6 pot Cosworth Turbo underneath the bodywork but never took a detailed look at the chassis, that was the colour scheme though.

 

The Haas Lola THL2 in '86 and Benetton B187 in '87 both used versions of the Ford Cosworth V6 turbo.

[timbo]

From the HSRCA Retro Speedfest 2014 at Sydney's Eastern Creek, firstly Les Wright's Benetton, which has since passed hands, but thankfully still in Australia,



And secondly, the Alessandro Nannini Benetton B189, which actually won the 1989 Japanese GP, after Prost and Senna's coming together at the chicane, which put Prost out, but Senna continued, and had actually retaken the lead, only to be disqualified later on.

[Cavalier53]

Today I saw a B188 in the Stavelot Abbey museum, with reference to Thierry Boutsen as the driver. No idea about the ownership, just speculating there could be a Belgian connection.

 

The line up in the museum is quite different from their website, and there is a marvelous new entry since last Friday 10-3 from a very different age - but that will be for a different thread.

Edited by Cavalier53, 19 March 2017 - 21:43.

[Lee Nicolle]

Les sold the Benetton to someone in Adelaide a while back but I don't know just who bought it.  It was in running order and the damage he did when backing it into the wall at Eastern Creek some years ago had long been repaired as described in the my105 advertisement.

Josh Keane has been driving it,, it ran over him pushing it in or out of the shed at Mallala historics in May.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 20 March 2017 - 07:54.

[nexfast]

B-191-02 being sold by Bonhams in Spa this month

 

http://www.bonhams.c...ngth=100&page=1

[king_crud]

Why the hell would you paint a Lola to look like a Benetton, what's wrong with keeping it original?

[Peter Morley]

Why the hell would you paint a Lola to look like a Benetton, what's wrong with keeping it original?

 

When Benetton took over the Ford/Cosworth V6 engines they inherited the car(s?) and turned it into a show car.

[nexfast]

B-191-02 being sold by Bonhams in Spa this month

 

http://www.bonhams.c...length=100

 

Well, actually no one bought it today as it was withdrawn when offers were not going over 600.000 euros.

[f1steveuk]

So, in summary, to claim  B192-08 is "the Schumacher championship car" as on some web sites, is very very wide of the mark?

[matherto]

B195 - six made/ five raced (02 didn't)
B195-04 https://imgur.com/a/s02jfgF / Michael Schumacher exhibition Cologne as of 2020 - no headrest - Bitburger side logos/Mild Seven on rear wing/Mild Seven livery/Benetton Sportsystem endplates/blue mirrors
 

B195-06 last spotted at Messe Essen in 2018 - https://www.instagra.../p/BkOZJNvARJj/ / Warsaw motorshow 2017 https://www.instagra...-by=greg_krauze - has headrest - Bitburger side logos/Benetton on rear wing/Mild Seven livery/red mirrors 


One in Musée de l'Automobile, Schlumpf collection as of 2020 - https://www.instagra.../p/B9KtXpwBg4b/ - has headrest - Drive Alkoholfrei side logos/Benetton tobacco-free livery/Benetton Sportsystem endplates

 

One in the German Sports and Olympic museum, Cologne as of 2020 - https://www.instagra.../p/B1Ml-l9gVah/ - https://www.instagra...74557048101496/ - has headrest - Bitburger side logos/Mild Seven on rear wing/Mild Seven livery/Flymo on end plates/no mirrors

 

One exhibited at Exclusive Drive, Magny-Cours 2018 - https://flic.kr/p/25JqH5G - no headrest - Bitburger side logos/Mild Seven on rear wing/Mild Seven livery/Benetton Sportsystem endplates/black mirrors - GFoS sticker so should be able to work out chassis number (ran at GFoS in 2006 and 2011 from google searches)

 

One at Museo Historia de Automocion, Salamanca as of 2020 - https://www.instagra.../p/B9rhl39BUfk/ - no headrest - 1996 livery

Edited by matherto, 27 April 2020 - 16:19.

[matherto]

B194 - eight made/all raced
B194-02 spotted at Warsaw Motor Show in 2017 - https://www.instagra...-by=greg_krauze
B194-05 driven by Damon at Goodwood last year - Owned by Motorworld/on show there as part of the MS collection with Benetton Sportsystem sidepods, white wheels.
B194-06 at Motorworld, on a plinth in the air for the MS collection with Bitburger sidepods and white wheels - imgur.com/a/s02jfgF
B194-08 at Lambda Performance in Wiesbaden, spotted at GFoS in 2014 with Bitburger sidepods and white wheels

One unknown seen at TDF Engineering - http://www.dclick.co.uk/tdf3.jpg / http://www.dclick.co.uk/tdf1.jpg / High downforce extended wing - https://www.pistonhe...&t=1745946&i=80

One unknown seen in Renault's Heritage collection in 1997 livery - Renault heritage collecton -

Dunno about the two others

Edited by matherto, 27 April 2020 - 16:19.

[matherto]

B196 - 7 made/5 raced (01 and 06 didn't)

B196-03 - https://web.archive....ars&DetailID=38 - SVS had it at some point, all black livery, archive shows 2016/17 though it's likely older

B196-04 - for sale in 2013 in the US - https://retroracecar...-benetton-b196/ - Ex James Martin

GPExtreme have two of them in 1996 livery

One of them is here - https://goo.gl/maps/xA2FVwAW834jaJeT8 - Museo del automóvil termas de río hondo as of 2020

One seen in the Flins sur Seine Renault heritage collection warehouse in 2011 - https://www.cliospor...lection.607947/

One more somewhere.

GPExtreme might have bought the ex-Martin car, might not. No idea of the number of the Rio Hondo car, nor if the Renault warehouse car is still there.

Edited by matherto, 27 April 2020 - 16:20.

[matherto]

B197 - 6 made/4 raced (01 and 06 didn't)

 

B197-03 owned by the French family in America - https://www.reddit.c...t_road_america/

B197-05 is an ex-Ascari car. Was for sale by Memento in 2018 https://twitter.com/...1394560?lang=en

B197-06 never raced but was for sale a few years ago, it's the Penn Elcom car from BOSS GP http://www.motorspor...vihupdkbf88llf3

 

One unknown at the Manoir de l'Automobile in Lohéac as of 2020 - https://preview.redd...69ddc81360e78cf

One in the Renault warehouse as of 2011

One somewhere else

 

Edited by matherto, 27 April 2020 - 16:20.

[matherto]

It's said that the Benetton factory has a museum with one of each car but I've never seen photos

Trying to go through my sheet to update everything.

Edited by matherto, 27 April 2020 - 16:21.