19 replies to this topic

[Graveltrappen]

With the renaming of GP2 and the demise of Manor... rather than losing teams like this, and to give the lower teams the chance to get into F1...

Once liberty sort out the payment structure, could/should they introduce a system where the bottom one or two teams are relegated to F2 for the following season and the top 2 teams are promoted into F1? Would need some thought in terms of contingencys for car designs, but might help bring new teams/talent up into F1, and if parachute payments were awarded to the relegated team/s they could survive rather than fading away

[Nathan]

How can you promote and relegate two wildly different types of race teams (F1 vs F2/F3/F4)?

 

Most F1 car designs begin in summer, so how can any junior team know to start?

 

How would they staff the extra 150 people?  The extra race equipment and facilities? How could they compete with no IP and little preparation?  How can they put together the sponsorship in such a small amount of time?

 

I don't see how it is feasible unless F1 goes to spec or customer chassis.  I also don't see why it is Liberty's responsibility to financially prepare teams coming or going.

Edited by Nathan, 06 February 2017 - 22:22.

[CPR]

I've had similar thoughts. Conceptually it might sound nice but it would be so hard to do in practice, as Nathan writes above.

[Clatter]

What's the point of this? The teams in GP2(the new F2) are not clamouring to get into F1, so why force them into an even more expensive series than they want to be in? There's also no reason to consider promotion/relegation when they can't even field a full grid. It would only make sense if the grid were full and the teams below wanted to join in.

Edited by Clatter, 06 February 2017 - 22:22.

[HistoryFan]

cost has to come down - and there will be new teams.

You could see it in 2009 as there were 22 contender for 3 free slots for the F1 grid when cost cutting about 50 Mio was planed...

[SonnyViceR]

Single seaters are way too driver focused/oriented and cash in to them. In F2/F3/F4, no team wants to get into F1.

 

In LMP racing, most LMP3 teams may actually have motivations into getting into LMP2 (mainly because of the access to Le Mans), and some into LMP1 as well. There is actual incentive for upgrading.

[HistoryFan]

but why are they not motivated? Because of costs. Only because of costs.

[SonnyViceR]

but why are they not motivated? Because of costs. Only because of costs.

 

And because nobody cares about the teams in feeder series. The reason teams are there in the first place is money making, not because they have aspirations for something as team.

[Cornholio]

I've always wondered whether it might be worth having some sort of glide path in terms of technology to enable teams to transition between the formulae easier, e.g.

 

F4 - spec as it is now

F3 - spec tub with some development freedoms (the de-facto situation up till last year)

F2 - open formula with customer cars allowed - perhaps with a cost-cap if workable, as there'd be less existing parties against introducing it like in F1

F1 - constructor series as it is now

 

At the top two levels, not only would the best F2 teams be likely better prepared to graduate, but a failing F1 team could regroup in the lower formula without having to necessarily write off all their design/manufacturing facilities.

 

But in reality there's probably more chance of me getting laid this week than seeing a non-spec F2/GP2 in my lifetime.

[Nathan]

I have a hard time thinking owners of most junior teams don't have F1 dreams (not necessarily aspirations).

[SonnyViceR]

I have a hard time thinking owners of most junior teams don't have F1 dreams (not necessarily aspirations).

 

Just like most people that play lottery have lottery dreams, but that doesn't really mean anything.

[Clatter]

I have a hard time thinking owners of most junior teams don't have F1 dreams (not necessarily aspirations).

Probably true, but lack of space on the grid isn't the reason they don't make the jump.

[Prost1997T]

And because nobody cares about the teams in feeder series. The reason teams are there in the first place is money making, not because they have aspirations for something as team.

 

In practice, much of motorsport is a good way to burn money.

[highdownforce]

I don't know...

 

Specifically from GP2/F2 to F1:

 

• Promotion is optional;
• Make GP2/F2 run some kind of spec F1 chassis with an also spec detunned/simpler PU;
• Have a joker engine supplier (like Cosworth) or a reassignment system for relegated teams (if a Renault powered car is relegated, the promoted team inherits the Renault power train supply);
• Maybe allow GP2/F2 teams to produce and sell aerokits?;

 

In the end this revolves around to allow GP2+ cars mixing with F1 for a set number of seasons until the team has to build a new project or be relegated back.

 

As I've said, I don't know...

Edited by highdownforce, 07 February 2017 - 02:57.

[loki]

No

[LiftAndCoast]

In addition to the issues identified by others, there's another flaw in the idea.

Promotion and relegation exists in football because there's more demand for places in the top tier than supply.

In F1 we now have six grid spots - that is three teams - unfilled. So there's no lack of supply - it's demand that's the problem. And this idea does nothing to fix that.

[Rinehart]

To enable promotion from F2 to F1, you'd need to allow that team to buy everything as a full customer team for the first 2 years as it would be impossible to win promotion in October and be on the grid with a designed and build F1 chassis in less than 6 months. 

 

The bigger problem would be what to do with the relegated team, Suddenly they'd have about 200 employees too many and a massive amount of redundant infrastructure. You'd need to have a Premier League style "parachute payment" of colossal proportions. 

 

Difficult to see this ever becoming a reality. 

[Jackmancer]

OP a Motorsport Manager player? 

[sopa]

To have a relegation/promotion system, you basically must have the same set of technical regulations throughout the ladder. But considering, how F1 struggles to get more than 10 teams to build an F1 car and go racing, it will be a lot to ask to have 20-30 such teams.   Maybe they could race to F3 technical regulations then to get many so teams across different series? But F1 fans wouldn't appreciate that. 

 

It would work only if there was a spec chassis for everyone. Say a Dallara to everyone, then the talent and race operations of each team would shine through and they could move up or down based on performance.

 

In ballgames it is obviously vastly different. In one country you can have hundreds of clubs, so obviously you are not going to push them into a single league. You are going to divide them across many leagues based on performances. Motorsport is just so expensive that you don't have that luxury. Usually each series has enough trouble to get enough teams racing.

Edited by sopa, 07 February 2017 - 11:04.

[SenorSjon]

Or upgrade the engine power between classes:

250 (F4)

500 (F3)

750 (F2)

unlimited hp (F1)

But use the same chassis/aero ruleset. Then you can promote and.only have to up your engine power/change engine..