34 replies to this topic

[BCM]

It's really disappointing to see a distinguished journal like Autosport stoop to using the word "haters" in the title of an article.

 

http://www.autosport...live-his-legacy

 

"Haters" is the sort of verbiage you expect to see being put forth by juvenile posters on a forum. Not what you expect to see in the title of an article on a respected magazine/online motorsport portal.

Edited by BCM, 17 February 2017 - 07:40.

[Nemo1965]

It's really disappointing to see a distinguished journal like Autosport stoop to using the word "haters" in the title of an article.

 

http://www.autosport...live-his-legacy

 

"Haters" is the sort of verbiage you expect to see being put forth by juvenile posters on a forum. Not what you expect to see in the title of an article on a respected magazine/online motorsport portal.

 

Agreed. Another point: obviously there are trolls, also on these Fora. But ignoring is the best remedy. Especially for journalists.

[Vitesse2]

I hope you read the whole article, because it's a balanced well-argued piece.

 

More generally, the English language evolves continuously and any publication worth its salt, which wishes to retain and gain readers, especially internationally, must adapt to changes in the demographic and the ways its readership uses the language. It may not necessarily be the way you as an individual use language, of course.

 

I'm sure we can agree - whatever your political views - that The Guardian is also a 'distinguished journal'. Here are just a few recent headlines from it - there are plenty more:

 

DeploraBall: Trump lovers and haters clash at Washington DC event

 

Nothing else matters: Metallica's haters never really understood the band

 

Bring on the haters: the show that’s getting laughs out of Islamophobia

 

Internet trolls beware – these rules will separate the haters from the hapless

 

Paul Feig hits back at Twitter 'haters' trolling Ghostbusters' Leslie Jones

 

To all you Renoir haters: he does not 'suck at painting'

 

And some from the Daily Telegraph:

 

Why Hollywood haters will soon learn to love Trump

 

A new reason Marmite haters could learn to love it: study finds the spread can be used to make beer

 

Sorry Alberto Salazar, but the haters will carry on hating

 

Like it or not - and personally I'm in the 'not' camp - the word 'hater' is insinuating itself into everyday language and that current usage is already reflected in Collins English Dictionary:

 

 

(informal, mainly US & Canadian) a grudging or spiteful person, esp one who disparages others: Don't let the haters get you down

 

[Marklar]

He could have said detractors instead of haters, but this wouldnt have been accurate if you are reading the article IMO. And as V2 pointed out the term is frequently used in opinion pieces. No issues with it as it was also well-argued.

Edited by Marklar, 17 February 2017 - 09:14.

[SophieB]

He could have said detractors instead of haters, but this wouldnt have been accurate if you are reading the article IMO. And as V2 pointed out the term is frequently used in opinion pieces. No issues with it as it was also well-argued.

 

Not the same meaning (in view). Detractors can fit but it also potentially covers people who have good reason to er, detract whereas 'hater' specifically implies a person who is going to detract whatever the target of their dislike says or does.

[Marklar]

Not the same meaning (in view). Detractors can fit but it also potentially covers people who have good reason to er, detract whereas 'hater' specifically implies a person who is going to detract whatever the target of their dislike says or does.

Yep, that's why I think that 'haters' was the only possibly term to use here, given the context.

Though I believe it was kinda pointless to write this piece in the first place. Appeal to haters to enjoy/appreciate their bogeyman more will never work out as they are deflecting everything no matter what. The reaction on this piece was rather telling.

I thought it was a good read though.

[chunder27]

You have to understand the ages and likely demographic of the people working at somewhere like Autosport, I doubt many of the staff there are in their 40's or 50's.

 

So, using a word like haters is fairly apt to that age group. Whereas for older age groups it might be considered slang.

 

Not sure I would use it, perhaps only linked to something like the internet and a discussion about it or forums or Twitter for instance.

 

Another mis-used word and utterly misunderstood word is "troll" People genuinely have no idea what that really means in internet terms.

 

Another favourite of mine is fanboy!  Quite the opposite of hater really, but often used in the same context.

[Kristian]

I would associate words the likes of 'haters' with a publication such as the godawful Buzzfeed rather than Autosport, but as people say, its probably the way the times are going. Language evolves.

 

As Vitesse rightly says, the Guardian is going down that route too, but also because its got pretty grim figures right now and its trying to appeal to younger demographics to gain readers. I suspect this is the strategy of Autosport's new owners (which is ultimately an online company). 

Edited by Kristian, 17 February 2017 - 11:40.

[SophieB]

I would associate words the likes of 'haters' with a publication such as the godawful Buzzfeed rather than Autosport, but as people say, its probably the way the times are going. Language evolves.

 

As Vitesse rightly says, the Guardian is going down that route too, but also because its got pretty grim figures right now and its trying to appeal to younger demographics to gain readers. I suspect this is the strategy of Autosport's new owners (which is ultimately an online company). 

 

What word would you propose using instead to describe someone who appears to be motivated by a personal, all-pervasive dislike of a given person over the actual incident/words of that person that they purport to be responding to?

[YoungGun]

The Trump influence is infiltrating motorsports too? Not long before it's labeled "fake news". 

[ensign14]

The Book of Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 6, as per the Wycliffe Bible:

The guileful kisses of the hater.

 

 

 

1382.

 

[Buttoneer]

I'm disappointed it wasn't "h8r".

[Vitesse2]

I would associate words the likes of 'haters' with a publication such as the godawful Buzzfeed rather than Autosport, but as people say, its probably the way the times are going. Language evolves.

 

As Vitesse rightly says, the Guardian is going down that route too, but also because its got pretty grim figures right now and its trying to appeal to younger demographics to gain readers. I suspect this is the strategy of Autosport's new owners (which is ultimately an online company). 

TBH the primary reason I picked The Guardian was because it has a good site search. I'm sure if I took the time I could come up with similar lists from the New York Times, Irish Times, Washington Post, Sydney Morning Herald, Straits Times, Los Angeles Times, San Francisco Examiner, New Zealand Herald and so on ...

 

A quick search of The Spectator brings up over 530 hits and there are over 740 on The New Statesman.

[Rob Miller]

Words change.

 

Sixty years ago my mother didn't like me using words like "hate" and "ain't".

 

Twenty years later she would sometimes say "****" under her breath.

[KWSN - DSM]

I hope you read the whole article, because it's a balanced well-argued piece.

 

More generally, the English language evolves continuously and any publication worth its salt, which wishes to retain and gain readers, especially internationally, must adapt to changes in the demographic and the ways its readership uses the language. It may not necessarily be the way you as an individual use language, of course.

 

I'm sure we can agree - whatever your political views - that The Guardian is also a 'distinguished journal'. Here are just a few recent headlines from it - there are plenty more:

 

DeploraBall: Trump lovers and haters clash at Washington DC event

 

Nothing else matters: Metallica's haters never really understood the band

 

Bring on the haters: the show that’s getting laughs out of Islamophobia

 

Internet trolls beware – these rules will separate the haters from the hapless

 

Paul Feig hits back at Twitter 'haters' trolling Ghostbusters' Leslie Jones

 

To all you Renoir haters: he does not 'suck at painting'

 

And some from the Daily Telegraph:

 

Why Hollywood haters will soon learn to love Trump

 

A new reason Marmite haters could learn to love it: study finds the spread can be used to make beer

 

Sorry Alberto Salazar, but the haters will carry on hating

 

Like it or not - and personally I'm in the 'not' camp - the word 'hater' is insinuating itself into everyday language and that current usage is already reflected in Collins English Dictionary:

 

Read the article, regardless of how good it was the use of 'haters' belong between adolescent not yet fully capable of having a discussion of likes and dislikes.

 

[Vitesse2]

Read the article, regardless of how good it was the use of 'haters' belong between adolescent not yet fully capable of having a discussion of likes and dislikes.

 

I would refer you to post #9 above ...

 

By implication, the article is also taking a mild swipe at the social media echo chambers and mindless BTL comments. Perhaps it might make a few people stop and think - although I suspect that the vast majority of its real targets are already beyond redemption.

[chunder27]

So utterly holier than though!  Hilarious

[KWSN - DSM]

What word would you propose using instead to describe someone who appears to be motivated by a personal, all-pervasive dislike of a given person over the actual incident/words of that person that they purport to be responding to?

 

I do not think I would need one single word, in matters of a F1 driver any single negative would likely be harder or harsher than I would be trying to convey - In matters F1, teams and drivers are we really at a 'hate' level? Rather than making everything one lines, snippets and 140 character opinions. Formulate your thoughts on that driver, team or sport in general giving your view, your opinion without having to resort to language which does not belong in a discussion between adults.

 

[milestone 11]

And in our very own search engine,

Your search for the term hater returned 1000 results.

 

Incidentally, had every intention of remarking on this, what I consider to be, very good article but, was unable to find an appropriate existing thread.

Edited by milestone 11, 17 February 2017 - 17:04.

[JHSingo]

Glad I'm not the only one who dislikes that term of phrase. I cringe every time someone uses it. Critics or detractors would have been fine.

[SophieB]

well fine except for the reasons why they wouldn't be.

[YoungGun]

F1 Legends have "Detractors" according to the author, Hamilton has "Haters". I suppose that is the distinguishing factor it the word choice? 

[Marklar]

F1 Legends have "Detractors" according to the author, Hamilton has "Haters". I suppose that is the distinguishing factor it the word choice? 

The difference is called Social Media.

[KWSN - DSM]

The difference is called Social Media.

 

Sign of the times... I hate that...

 

[Nemo1965]

I think the headline is fitting for the article, because the author himself just does not seem able to see the difference between 'critics', 'detractors' or 'haters'.

 

Take this paragraph:

 

The greats are divisive and Hamilton, as he does in so many areas, ranks right up there with the best of them for that. It's the way some pick and choose the elements of his public persona to suit their argument, and use it as a stick with which to beat Hamilton, that is particularly grinding.

 

Which 'some' are we talking about, exactly? I read this kind of rambling, non specific op-eds all the time. Just for god's sake just come out and name the people YOU feel should acknowledge Hamilton's achievements. Or... indeed write an article about the haters. The author could have done that, he has enough material about that aspect, I can read it. But he (and his editor) apparently did not know exactly what article they were composing.

[Zmeej]

To offer a Precisian's opinion, would suggest that "haters" is a clickbait and/or "read this!" term, which needs little or no parsing, given the waters a website/print publication swims in.

 

In the same vein, will point out that "detractors" is wonderfully Latinate English word, which could easily serve as an umbrella term for all manner of folks who have either rational or irrational motivations for tearing a strip off someone/an organisation.

 

chunder27

 

I doubt many of the staff there are in their 40's or 50's.

 

Maybe they're all very hip oldsters.

[404KF2]

Haters goin hate, yo

[Vitesse2]

To offer a Precisian's opinion, would suggest that "haters" is a clickbait and/or "read this!" term, which needs little or no parsing, given the waters a website/print publication swims in.

 

In the same vein, will point out that "detractors" is wonderfully Latinate English word, which could easily serve as an umbrella term for all manner of folks who have either rational or irrational motivations for tearing a strip off someone/an organisation.

'Hamilton haters' is also alliterative; alliteration is a trick often used by headline writers.

[SophieB]

It's also more precise which is why I expect it was used.

[JHSingo]

well fine except for the reasons why they wouldn't be.

 

I don't agree.

[HP]

He could have said detractors instead of haters, but this wouldnt have been accurate if you are reading the article IMO. And as V2 pointed out the term is frequently used in opinion pieces. No issues with it as it was also well-argued.

Given a wider context, I felt that article was rather poorly argued and it started with the title, as I thought it being divisive. Not really a good way to win over people starting with an implicit "us" and "them. And it set the tone for the rest of the article.

 

IMO the only one who can make people like Hamilton, is Hamilton himself. Would be interesting to know how Hamilton felt about the article himself. Does he see people that disagree with his life style as "haters" too? If he doesn't, the entire article missed the mark by far. If he agrees however, he'd be very much part of the problem discussed.

 

If in doubt, someone should ask Hillary Clinton if she would call certain American people deplorable again. Using such words usually widens the gap with them and imply that one doesn't know any better how to win people over.

 

The goal of the article (if there was one besides writing something) was to win people over for Hamilton. IMO it was a big fail. Hamilton lives already his own legacy. If people agree or not is meaningless. Besides that, I didn't learn anything new about Hamilton either.

[BMWTeamBigazzi]

What on earth are we talking about?? Each and every one of us is "hated" at some point in our lives!! I know people that hate me, hate working with me some days, and mostly it's my closest friends and family that hate me!! it's been a very loose term for not liking someone or something, for years and years and years!! As like one chap said already here, the advent of social media has only made it worse! luckily I remember the times before social media too!!

Personally I think "hate" is a very strong word and rarely use it, I mean because I absolutely "hate" anything to with Salad!!, eating leaves, cucumber, raw tomato, coleslaw (ugh!!) it does nothing for me sorry!! But does this mean all my vegetarian and vegan friends "hate" me?? errrrmm...... No, they respect my opinion like I respect all salad lovers!! each to their own! As long as you have a mutual respect and it's "respect" that is the key here, not "hate", then "hate" all you like in my book, as long as you have that mutual respect!!

What has this got to do with Motorsport?? I have no idea?? But....... remember Andy Lally?? 2001, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2016 Rolex 24Hr @ Daytona Winner??, 2001, 2004, 2006 Grand am champ to boot!!, He's a Vegan!! from 2009 officially, but respect all the same!!! 

[Zmeej]

does this mean all my vegetarian and vegan friends "hate" me??

 

If your closest friends & family and co-workers hate you, why wouldn't your vegetarian & vegan friends hate you?

 

Anyway, based on that post, don't find myself inclined to hate you.

[BMWTeamBigazzi]

If your closest friends & family and co-workers hate you, why wouldn't your vegetarian & vegan friends hate you?

 

Anyway, based on that post, don't find myself inclined to hate you.

Your kids will always hate you at some point !! lol 

[Zmeej]

Have avoided it so far. [knock on head]