1656 replies to this topic

[ozpata]

 

Sorry - but I don't think this Modena circuit plan is right for 1934-37.  See this photo, below, of Nuvolari at the 1936 race in his Scuderia Ferrari-entered Alfa Romeo 12C-36.

 

 

 

Photo: Zagari/Spitzley Collection

 

He is rounding the Monumento ai Caduti delle Prima Guerra ('Memorial to the Fallen of the First War') roundabout, before presumably heading back westward on the Viale delle Rimembranze ('Avenue of Remembrance') towards the start/finish area. A sister Alfa is just visible heading right before locking left to follow in Nuvolari's wheel tracks.  This isn't compatible with the track plan above (sorry Oscar).

 

There is a park road leading into the Monument site today, and it's much closer to the Rimembranze than the plan shows, because the southernmost straight shown as the course of the circuit is in fact the main 'Viale L.A. Muratori' which passes 'underneath' the Monument site before it turns left (into the Viale Nicola Fabrizi) - then hooks left again to join the Viale Martiri de Liberta, creating that 'upturned toe' section of the marked lap.  South down the Martiri and a right-hand curve took one back onto the Rimembranze.  Still with me?

 

[url=https://postimg.cc/F1vgZ9yv]

Google Earth - image dated 2022

 

In fact the Monument itself stands just a little right of the 3km marker on the plan above, so following the course as depicted it would have been passed after the Martiri 'big toe' section described above.  It just doesn't add up that the map represents the Modena circuit as it really was right from 1934 until '47 when Bracco's awful accident in his Delage killed five spectators and saw this city course abandoned in favour of the artificial aerodrome/autodrome further from the city centre.

 

I haven't checked contemporary reference for this historic town circuit - gimme a break, it's Sunday morning - but I don't understand how the lap length would correspond for the entire period 1934-47 with the upturned toe section apparently not in use in '36, so inferring that the course then at least must have been shorter than quoted?  

 

DCN

 

here are some images of the area and track

 

here is a detail from a city planning map from the 30s that was updated to 1960 first and then 1965 ( most of the changes noted are to buildings and on streets but away from this area in question)

and here a not so detailed map from 1942

 

on the pages from book scans that I have the length is noted as 3.2 kms and the math on the laps/distance confirms it, if I do the layout as the picture suggest then the lap length is  2.90 kms, it won't be the first time that maps show incorrect layout, they could have made a change to the layout right before the race and the map was already printed out or something like that, but as far as I know, that wasn't noted on the pages that I have 

 

my explanation is that during one of those years, they might have chosen to get into that section as a sort of chicane, a modification of the layout or a practice or different event and wasn't noted or used officially.

 

so there might be a an event or year with changes 

 

as always, I am open to fix, modify the maps, as long as I have something that justify and proves that it has to be changed, that is never an issue and I am very grateful for all the help that I get here in the forum or directly to my email with material

Edited by ozpata, 17 November 2024 - 13:33.

[ozpata]

I did some searching and in Golden Era site the GP of 1936 is noted as 3.2 kms but going clockwise, could it be that they went under the monument on the same layout ? that will keep the distance the same basically and use the section of the monument

 

actually it describes the circuit going under the monument

 

now the question is , in which direction was the race usually run, the 1947 image shows counter clockwise, if the 1936 was run clockwise, what about the other events? 

Edited by ozpata, 17 November 2024 - 13:53.

[ozpata]

 

Modena 1947 street circuit

at least this should be the 1947 layout 

sorry for the confusion and error

Edited by ozpata, 17 November 2024 - 15:08.

[ozpata]

I went back tonight...

 

I have captured the makers for both start/finish plaques, the earlier one as pictured above is (as mentioned) in front of what is now a school. The building is indeed still there but camouflaged in my pic by the higher chain wire fence:

 

The 1916 one came up on cue just after Third Street:

 

 

 

And here is the best I could muster of the plaque in the dark, there is a kind of wash over it which could possibly be cleaned off a bit for a better pic:

 

 

I will be in the area again tomorrow, but I'm not sure if I can spend the time.

 

the plaque shows or at least I can make out Teddy Telzlaff, I have some papers and in the corona races site appears as Tetzlaff and Tetxlaff, the mechanic killed in the plaque looks like Schader, but have and seen Shrader and Erick Schroeder

Burman also appears as Berman 

Edited by ozpata, 17 November 2024 - 16:22.

[Ray Bell]

I went back today...

 

 

Wetting the surface made a big difference, but it wouldn't stay wet for long.

 

I also got better pics of the setting and of the other one as well, along with a good shot of the plaque. The school building features well in that, too.

[ozpata]

Modena Street circuit 1934-38

 

 

sorry for the mistake on the earlier version of this map and thanks again to Andreas and Doug 

[Jim Thurman]

the plaque shows or at least I can make out Teddy Telzlaff, I have some papers and in the corona races site appears as Tetzlaff and Tetxlaff, the mechanic killed in the plaque looks like Schader, but have and seen Shrader and Erick Schroeder

Burman also appears as Berman 

It looks like the plaque has it correctly as Tetzlaff. There were many variations of the mechanician's name in newspapers, but research for Motorsport Memorial, using records, found his name to be Erich Schrader. Unfortunately, at the time of the dedication of the monument, his name was still believed to be "Schader."