637 replies to this topic

[Allen Brown]

Looks like a fabulous track, judging from Google Streetview. 

 

Absolutely agree!

 

(link)

[Michael Ferner]

I still can't see...

[cpbell]

Link works fine for me - which browser are you trying to open it in?

[Michael Ferner]

IE 11. W7Pro at work (ssshh!), and W10 at home. The strange thing is that all pictures up to June 18 are still visible, but nothing posted from July 2 onwards! I would really appreciate a fix.

[ozpata]

[Radoye]

IE 11. W7Pro at work (ssshh!), and W10 at home. The strange thing is that all pictures up to June 18 are still visible, but nothing posted from July 2 onwards! I would really appreciate a fix.

 

Try deleting the temporary internet files and cookies. See here for instructions if needed: https://support.micr...et-files-folder

[ozpata]

[ozpata]

[ozpata]

[lustigson]

 

That's like the Brands Hatch Indy circuit, but the other way around, and, presumably, flat as a pancake. 

[Rob Semmeling]

The 2.71 km layout at München-Riem was only used in June 1949; the May 1951 and August 1952 events - the 1950 races were cancelled - used a shorter 2.3 km layout.

[uechtel]

Indeed, in 1951/52 there would be a hairpin immediately at the northern end of the tribunes, so without that section on the open airport area.

[ozpata]

so basically this layout is good for 1949

I saw some results for 1951 noting 3km lap  f2 or german championship, so they got another layout longer or is basically the 2.7 ?

[Rob Semmeling]

Again, in 1951 a shortened 2.3 km layout was used. The 3 km course refers to the 2.71 km layout used in 1949 only.

[ozpata]

[ChrisJson]

Didn't notice this last time but it's Skarpnäck without the s. Skarpnäcksloppet means the race at Skarpnäck.

Keep up the good work!

Christer

[ozpata]

[Tomas Karlsson]

Didn't notice this last time but it's Skarpnäck without the s. Skarpnäcksloppet means the race at Skarpnäck.

Keep up the good work!

Christer

Yes, that's right. It should be Skarpnäck. Check with a modern map. The resedential area that was built on the old airfield has the same name, Skarpnäck.

But the track map is not right for these years. There were at least three configurations between 1948 and 1970. In 1948-49 it was a 3 km track made up by haybales up and down the runways. The other were 1,7 and 2km long. The longer of these also went out on the western leg, with an hairpin before a longer start/finish-straight. It was finally abandoned after a car had went through the hay-bales in the fast left before the last hairpin and out on to the finish straight. 

[ozpata]

[Tomas Karlsson]

Yep, that's the 3km layout. But it was only used during the two big events in 1948 and 1949. And it should be "Skarpnäck" without the extra s.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by ozpata

This triggers a few thoughts with me...

First of all, according to Terry Walker's book this circuit was only used for motorcycles. I guess it's reasonable to say that's where the 'TT' event title came from.

There was, however, a 'Tourist Trophy' race for cars held at Phillip Island, and surely it would have been held on the triangular course at the Western end of the mapped circuit. The start/finish straight was therefore the only common part with this circuit, also with the original Grand Prix circuit.

The triangular circuit described was used up to 1940, as I recall. Or do I have that wrong?

[ozpata]

This triggers a few thoughts with me...

First of all, according to Terry Walker's book this circuit was only used for motorcycles. I guess it's reasonable to say that's where the 'TT' event title came from.

There was, however, a 'Tourist Trophy' race for cars held at Phillip Island, and surely it would have been held on the triangular course at the Western end of the mapped circuit. The start/finish straight was therefore the only common part with this circuit, also with the original Grand Prix circuit.

The triangular circuit described was used up to 1940, as I recall. Or do I have that wrong?

 

well I was doing some research and saw like  3 layouts, one for bikes "TT"

the triangular I got it from 36 to 40 and another one used from 1928 to 35 shorter than the TT at about 10.6 km but still using the same finish straight, hope it is correct

[Ray Bell]

The original and main circuit was the rectangular circuit of around 10kms...

I don't know if it was used after the Grand Prix in 1935, but probably not. The longest open-wheeler race ever run in Australia was run on this course late in 1934 over 300 miles.

It's very likely that once the Light Car Club abandoned the circuit and the Grand Prix, that the ARDC were happy with the shorter 3.5m triangular course as being easier to control and sufficient for the purpose anyway.

But the longest circuit was only ever used by motorcycles.

[ozpata]

[Rob Miller]

That's actually quite funny.

[Ray Bell]

Wait till you're trying to lap another car in the dust!

But it's extremely funny when you align it with the comment made by Catalina Park in the https://forums.autos...ian Grand Prix' thread.



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Edited by Ray Bell, 18 October 2018 - 08:02.

[ozpata]

[ozpata]

I am doing the maps for the track, but I am not certain about starting points

 

 

1948: which direction and where was the starting point ?

1949-56: " inverted Y"  1956 start but was the races from 1949 to 1955 also starting there?

1957-62: is the direction correct ?

 

thanks for any help you can provide

[Lee Nicolle]

Very clearly I am mistaken re thinking that PI was on the same piece of land. From those Maps it was far closer to Cowes.

SO when did the current circuit come into use? It was in use in the 60s or before with the 500 mile race. And abandoned in the mid 70s. And reopened in the 90s for the bike GP with more than a few mods but still in esscence the same basic layout.

 

Those Euro circiuts give away the fact they are airfields,, and probably built during the war so some good came from the war. 

[ozpata]

Very clearly I am mistaken re thinking that PI was on the same piece of land. From those Maps it was far closer to Cowes.

SO when did the current circuit come into use? It was in use in the 60s or before with the 500 mile race. And abandoned in the mid 70s. And reopened in the 90s for the bike GP with more than a few mods but still in esscence the same basic layout.

 

Those Euro circiuts give away the fact they are airfields,, and probably built during the war so some good came from the war. 

I think that you might be thinking of the actual racing circuit ( the maps I did are of circuits using normal roads) build around 1956 if I am not mistaken, if that is the one, is basically all the way south by the water and a little bit to the right of the triangle circuit, down by Pyramid road

[Ray Bell]

From memory the Phillip Island circuit's construction commenced about 1953...

There is the very nice story about Laurel Mountain's reaction to seeing the circuit site when the PIARC invited members and others down to the Island to see where they were going to build their circuit.

"It was a beautiful day and the sun was shining, and I thought to myself, 'what a lovely place to build a racing circuit!'"

The point is in the timing. Ian Mountain would have been fairly unlikely to take his bride-to-be on that jaunt any later than mid-1954. He would have been too engrossed with the finishing of his Peugeot Special for upcoming Fishermens Bend meetings and the lead-up to the Australian Grand Prix at Southport, and he was to die in January, 1955.

Yes, Lee, the original circuit was very close to Cowes. You must remember that there was rather less mobility for people those days, especially since most spectators would come on ferries that berthed at Cowes, so the circuits couldn't be too far from town.




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Edited by Ray Bell, 24 October 2018 - 22:30.

[ozpata]

[ozpata]

[Ray Bell]

I personally measured this circuit in 1972, Oscar...

I was driving a Datsun 180BSSS and had done an all-night drive from Sydney. During that drive I verified everything I could in the instrumentation and the odometer was among those things. Yes, it was out, but I was able to correct the figures.

The actual circuit length was 9.65 miles, not 9.75. Hence it is 13.917kms.

[ozpata]

I personally measured this circuit in 1972, Oscar...

I was driving a Datsun 180BSSS and had done an all-night drive from Sydney. During that drive I verified everything I could in the instrumentation and the odometer was among those things. Yes, it was out, but I was able to correct the figures.

The actual circuit length was 9.65 miles, not 9.75. Hence it is 13.917kms.

Thanks Ray, I will fix that

[ozpata]

[Geoff E]

The actual circuit length was 9.65 miles, not 9.75. Hence it is 13.917kms.

 

Clearly the 9.65 was a typo ... it ought to be 8.65.

[Ray Bell]

Yes, that's true...

The first time I calculated the metric conversion I made that mistake too!

[ozpata]

[Radoye]

Wow this one hardly changed since https://www.google.c...m/data=!3m1!1e3

Edited by Radoye, 13 November 2018 - 18:30.

[Ray Bell]

You would also be surprised at how little Lobethal has changed...

Some traffic islands added to a couple of corners, I'm sure that's all.

[LittleChris]

Wow this one hardly changed since https://www.google.c...m/data=!3m1!1e3

Outline of the circuit hasn't changed much if at all but a lot less trees these days following WW2 ! 

 

There's a rather impressive monument ( on the inside of the corner before the start area ) to Louis Trintignant and Guy Bouriat who perished during the 1933 meeting - can be seen on Google streetview.

[ozpata]

just a reminder

Fisherman's bend 

I am doing the maps for the track, but I am not certain about starting points

 

 

1948: which direction and where was the starting point ?

1949-56: " inverted Y"  1956 start but was the races from 1949 to 1955 also starting there?

1957-62: is the direction correct ?

 

thanks for any help you can provide

[ozpata]

[ozpata]

[Rob Semmeling]

The 3.008 km long “Tübinger Stadtring” circuit was used twice, first in June 1949 for a meeting featuring sports cars, Formula Libre and motorcycles, and then again in June 1950 when the programme included Formula 3 and “Kleinstrennwagen” plus motorcycles.

The third race in Tübingen was held on a new circuit outside of the city in June 1951, now for motorcycles only.

[Bikr7549]

The Tuebingen course is something I was not aware of, even having been there many times. Family members there are not into motor sports unfortunately and an internet search of the area didn't produce any local sites of interest, but just found this museum which looks interesting:

https://www.boxenstop-tuebingen.de/

Course route looks like it is along Reutlinger Str (D28), left onto Hechinger Str and then another left onto Stuttgarter Str? I haven't however been on that 'side of the tracks', but will check it out next time there.

Found some event program covers 1949-51 at this site-covers only, no view inside.

http://www.progcover...r/tubingen.html

Bob

Edited by Bikr7549, 05 December 2018 - 04:37.

[uechtel]

I assume you are able to read German, so thanks to google a race report is just two mouseclicks away...

https://www.neckar-c...adt-231490.html

 

Also a nice early colour picture

https://www.reutling...in.php?id=28960

 

Track map (with street names)

https://www.formel3g...0-tuebingen.jpg

 

And there even seems to be some film material available

https://doksite.de/v...Autorennen 1950

[Bikr7549]

Danke fuer die Auskuenfte uechtel! There is a motorcyclist in the family there who is of the age to have maybe seen these races, and I have sent him this info and asked if he had been there to see. Writing and speaking German is ok, reading is a bit slower but I will take a stab at the race report.

 

Bob

[ozpata]