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#701 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 03:15

I'm back at Macca's and they're not there again!

Ah well, it won't be forever.

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#702 kayemod

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 07:28

I'm back at Macca's and they're not there again!

Ah well, it won't be forever.

 

No, not on that diet it won't...



#703 Duc-Man

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 09:41

Sorry, just to make myself clear...

I can now see them. It was only while I was at McDonalds that I couldn't, but tethered to my phone I can. And I could see all other pics at Macca's too.

 

I suspect Maccas Wi-Fry has some sort of porn filter... :lol: :lol: :lol:



#704 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 11:12

In the US I found that McDonalds Wi-Fi rejected all fora using Invision software, saying it was to protect us....

 

In Australia the same message came for Invision (or IP) boards at Hungry Jacks, but not McDonalds. I haven't tried at Hungry Jacks lately to see if that's changed.



#705 lustigson

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 12:23

My thoughts would be that free wifi at McDonald's is more dangerous than forums pictures.  :drunk:



#706 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 04:01

Worse still, instead of 'free-camping' last night I stayed in a caravan park. I chose the park based on the fact that they had free wifi...

 

I couldn't get it to work and I couldn't phone the wifi providers because they close at 7pm and I wasn't even there yet at that stage.



#707 Jhdrussell

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 21:30

Worse still, instead of 'free-camping' last night I stayed in a caravan park. I chose the park based on the fact that they had free wifi...

 

I couldn't get it to work and I couldn't phone the wifi providers because they close at 7pm and I wasn't even there yet at that stage.

 

Can something not be done to stop this thread, the repository for Oscar Plada's wonderful, meticulously-researched, plans, being disrupted by these anodyne comments?

Or am I in a minority of one?



#708 malomay

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 22:58

Wow, if ever there was a case for listing the greatest road racing circuit ever (monsters such as Mille Miglia excepted) the original Brno circuit (1930-37) surely must be right up there.  I'm interested from anyone who's been there how much of this original is still in existence ?  I gather that most, if not all of the most recent circuit still driveable.  Also Ozpatas last map of Brno is from the years 1947 -63, what differences were there from this circuit to the one that was in use up to 1986 ?

Sorry for the questions but I have a fascination with this circuit....I have driven around the short version in GPL  & actually made it around once without hitting a tree (which is bordering on impossible in that game with my limited ability !)

 

Amazing resources these BTW.

 

regards



#709 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 00:07

From memory, the 1986 circuit was an all-new dedicated circuit...

The '47 to '63 circuit was a shorter version of the original, and there was an even shorter version of that used before the artificial circuit was built.

I only drove the '47 t0 '63 version. Wonderful stuff!

#710 Tim Murray

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 03:30

The various circuits used over the years at Brno can be seen on Darren Galpin’s site:

http://www.silhouet....acks/brno2.html

#711 uechtel

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 08:57

Wow, if ever there was a case for listing the greatest road racing circuit ever (monsters such as Mille Miglia excepted) the original Brno circuit (1930-37) surely must be right up there.  I'm interested from anyone who's been there how much of this original is still in existence ?  I gather that most, if not all of the most recent circuit still driveable.  Also Ozpatas last map of Brno is from the years 1947 -63, what differences were there from this circuit to the one that was in use up to 1986 ?

Sorry for the questions but I have a fascination with this circuit....I have driven around the short version in GPL  & actually made it around once without hitting a tree (which is bordering on impossible in that game with my limited ability !)

 

Amazing resources these BTW.

 

regards

 

In 2015 practically the whole circuit was driveable.

https://www.google.c...8290803106&z=16

The only 'problem' (as far as I remember) is the passage from the exit of the Ostrovaci village (the most western point of the circuit) passing under the highway towards "Kyvalka" (the couple of houses near the highway exit). It is still existing, but not allowed to drive there now, so you have to get around using the modern road.

 

Also at the very farest south eastern corner the highway is built on the fomer track, so you have to drive through that merchandising area.



#712 Allen Brown

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 12:05

Can something not be done to stop this thread, the repository for Oscar Plada's wonderful, meticulously-researched, plans, being disrupted by these anodyne comments?

Or am I in a minority of one?

 

It's TNF's way to disturb a thread with irrelevancies, so we can't and shouldn't change that, but there is a case here for some pruning of older irrelevancies.  Raise it with one of the Admins.  They can remove this post as well.



#713 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 15:53

If I may say, as the one who started the 'irrelavent' comments...

I merely posted that I was unable to see the maps. Yet I could see other photos. There is nothing whatever wrong with that.

There was no complaint just a day or two earlier when I started a chain of comments about just how good the maps were and how they were a great advance over previous mapping.

#714 Duc-Man

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 08:16

Can something not be done to stop this thread, the repository for Oscar Plada's wonderful, meticulously-researched, plans, being disrupted by these anodyne comments?

Or am I in a minority of one?

 

When I read your comment I thought 'what's wrong with him?' then I saw you're a new member.

Irrelevant comments, sidetracking and even bad jokes are normal on here.

You will get used to it. Everybody here appreciates Oscars artwork.



#715 Michael Ferner

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 09:31

anybody else is having issues with the pictures?


I can't see the most recent ones, since about half a year, or so. Have given up on this thread as a consequence, and check in only very rarely (to torture myself on what I'm missing! :(). Strangely, however, I can see the Brno map posted this month! :confused:

#716 ozpata

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 01:34

can you see them in my blog?  everytime I post them here they get posted there also, at least once a week

 

https://oscarplada.blogspot.com



#717 Michael Ferner

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 08:31

Ah, thanks for that! Yes, I can see them there! :up: :)

#718 ozpata

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 00:35

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#719 ozpata

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 12:22

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#720 ozpata

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 16:05

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#721 ozpata

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 11:14

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#722 ozpata

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 11:00

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#723 ozpata

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 12:27

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This probably needs some explaining.

I’ve been trying to get it done for over a year but the information is kind of contradictory, not the first circuit that it has issues.

Apart from my digging, got some complementary information (thanks Adam) but again it did not helped to get a clearer picture so:

From all that I could get the circuit was used 1937-38 and then 1946-47 with maybe a few minor events here and there but I couldn't confirm that, the circuit was reported at 3.8 km, I did found a small map and then, again thanks to some cooperation received another one by Alessandro Silva done 2003, the map confirmed the distance but the streets used and total distance according to that and the other map could not get to the 3.8 km, at best probably 3 km, I tried different ways to see if maybe one street was wrong but it will distort the map beyond what I could feel comfortable.

Then after a few more months found an event from the Automobile Club di Venezia, historic car Venice around 2017, in which they said to do a recreation of the original, historic track and with a little map it all fell into place, distance was almost spot on, the starting point was in a different place and used part of the maps I had, so to me at least it seems that they will have a better idea, the area hadn't change that much, there is no room for it, and basically the roads have remain pretty much unchanged compared to a map from 1941 at least as layout, houses, hotels and so forth might have developed a bit but nothing forced any big changes.

So at least to me, I feel this is probably fairly close to what the 3.8 km track used to be and perhaps the other one was used also, but in some other event, wrong distances is not new and I have read somewhere (don't know how true it is) that sometimes distances were given a bit over the top to get a permit for more cars on the grid, again I don't know how much sense that makes but perhaps some of you here can clarify that.

As a side note, Forli which has been in my plans for a while, suffers the same issues, for such small track in distance, they fell short for quite a bit, I think in the case of Forli it is in reality like 400 m shorter than the reported 1.6 km, but I also read that there were a few tracks around that area.

Any information will be appreciated.

Thanks

#724 ozpata

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 12:45

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and here is another one, Favorita Park in Palermo Sicily 

 

the circuit used the horse track and with a map from 1935 and 50s, can pretty much do the bottom one to a fairly close distance to the one reported  5.7 km

 

the top one which was said to be 5.2 km, I can only get them to 4.6 being generous using one of the horse tracks, even going on the outside of the horse track structure ( in the park) doesn't get to the distance reported  

 

again, thanks for any information 



#725 Obster

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 17:32

Vero Beach looks like a fun track!



#726 Rob Miller

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 10:43

For an airfield track, Vero Beach shows a lot of imagination.



#727 ozpata

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 11:50

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#728 ozpata

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 15:30

Any chance of doing a map of Hiéres? It's on the Mediterranean coast not far from Toulon. They had some races there, I think in the early 50s. A French friend took me around about half of what he thought was the old circuit a few years ago in his Clio, but he thought some of the old track had been built over. I searched on Google, but couldn't find a map.

somehow the folder for Hyères was inside another track, put there by mistake 

 

I have started both versions the 51 by the coast and the one in the 30s which is a bit more north and the whole track is basically there with some minor modifications due to demands of modern traffic, the 30s track has obviously far more development around it


Edited by ozpata, 17 July 2019 - 15:34.


#729 ozpata

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 13:45

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#730 ozpata

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Posted 21 July 2019 - 12:12

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#731 kayemod

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Posted 21 July 2019 - 13:16

Anyone looking for Ibsley today will need a boat, or at the very least waders. It's now all under water, the result of sand and gravel extraction from around 1955 when the circuit closed. Plenty of well known drivers raced there, Ron Flockhart was one winner in a V16 BRM, and another was a young Mike Hawthorn, winning at least once in his Lancia Aurelia road car.



#732 ozpata

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Posted 21 July 2019 - 13:20

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#733 ozpata

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 10:55

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#734 ozpata

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 11:02

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#735 kayemod

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 11:48

Very reluctant to question anything on this uniformly excellent thread, but on the Aintree map, surely Village Corner, the one before Bechers at far right, was much tighter than shown, was it ever re-profiled ? My spectating days would have been early 60s, you could get closer to the action there than at some other places, so it was a good spot to spectate.



#736 ozpata

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 12:27

Very reluctant to question anything on this uniformly excellent thread, but on the Aintree map, surely Village Corner, the one before Bechers at far right, was much tighter than shown, was it ever re-profiled ? My spectating days would have been early 60s, you could get closer to the action there than at some other places, so it was a good spot to spectate.

I did have a map that showed Village corner closer to Anchor bend but didn't have a date or anything else to go by, maps from 53 and 61 basically matched with somewhat newer aerials but then again, some maps concentrate on being more accurate on streets, couldn't find any changes on distance or about a change on the track, at least I couldn't find them, so I assumed that the track has very little changes or not that significant to be able to see them, will look into it and if there is something that needs to be changed I will update the map

 

sorry for that


Edited by ozpata, 27 July 2019 - 12:29.


#737 Sterzo

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 13:26

ozpata, I haven't "liked" a single one of your posts, for the simple reason I like all of them. This thread is a wonderful resource.



#738 ozpata

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 11:08

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#739 kayemod

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 12:20

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Aintree-001.jpg

 

The map above is pretty much what I've dredged up from my early teenage memory, I remember Village as being quite tight, probably the tightest bend on the track, so slow and a good viewing point. I copied the diagram from a fascinating book I often refer to, Peter Swinger's Motor Racing Circuits in England, published in 2001. Another small thing, I remember the section between Tatts and Melling Crossing, we knew it as Melling Road, which legions of fans walked along to reach the circuit from the railway station, as being a bit more "wiggley" than shown in your original map, they had a distinct corner between them. Over 50 years ago and I can remember as if that was yesterday, but don't ask me what I just came upstairs for...



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#740 Geoff E

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 13:03

There is this 1959 map of Aintree https://www.liverpoo...1959-colour.jpg



#741 Barry Boor

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 14:08

Despite kayemod's map, I don't think Village Corner was ever that sharp.

The Melling to Tatts section was never that wiggly, Either, I believe.

#742 Michael Ferner

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 14:20

(...), but don't ask me what I just came upstairs for...


To go looking for the book, Motor Racing Circuits in England? :)

#743 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 14:23

Google Earth doesn't think so, either...

Though it does show Anchor Crossing to be sharper than his map. Rather like Oscar's version.

#744 kayemod

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 15:12

Despite kayemod's map, I don't think Village Corner was ever that sharp.

The Melling to Tatts section was never that wiggly, Either, I believe.

 

I still have some doubts on the Melling to Tatts section, though It's not impossible that my childhood recollections weren't quite right, and my long term memory is not infallible after all. I suppose I could have been confusing Village with Anchor, though I don't think so, Peter Swinger's book refers to "...the sharp right-hand Village", which is what I was sure I remembered. A photograph cannot lie, but is Google Earth entirely reliable here? Re-shaping corners wouldn't be a small or cheap job, especially on a track that never saw a great deal of use, and nothing but occasional club action in recent years, but there clearly have been a few changes since the 60s when place was in more active use, but was it ever more than one or two events each year? Adding the golf course inside the Village/Bechers area for example, that wouldn't have been a small earth-moving job. I blame all those horses, never trusted the things...



#745 Sterzo

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 15:24

For what it's worth, here's a section of the 1958 ordnance Survey Map. They're usually accurate but not always up to date at the time of printing, if that isn't too much of a contradiction in terms. And, of course, it's quite difficult to read.

 

Aintree.PNG?dl=1

 

Out of interest, ozpata, what was your original source for this one?

 

The image is taken from this website:

https://tonyrobertso...ool-and-bootle/



#746 ozpata

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 16:51

similar sources, a few years , 58,53,61  then some google views, I think it only goes back to 2000, but I always try different viewers just in case something shows up in the image that might clarify things

then I did a few comp with the different views and images and to be honest the ordnance are quite accurate, scale is always a problem with the width of streets and so on and that they usually concentrate on the streets rather than on other things like a racetrack but I will assume they did their work comparing with some aerials and some public departments, parks maps 

 

drawings in programs and alike are very seldom reliable, I did spend some time trying to find any mention of changes to the layout because I did see those layouts that show that different corner, but nothing came, I did send some mails to a few motor clubs and aintree but no response, I will expect that something like that change in the corner will be noted somewhere

 

things at eye level sometimes look quite different or we construct a different image on our brain, but if I get to some information that will help fix that map, it will get done, so far from what I have that is the best I can do



#747 Hati

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 18:07

Didn't find old footage where they drove around the lap but found this:



#748 ozpata

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 10:08

I was doing some organizing and found this, not the place for it it but maybe some will like them

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#749 ozpata

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 10:11

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#750 ozpata

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 10:16

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