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#751 ozpata

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 10:20

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if somebody thinks this is disrupting the maps thread, I will delete them or move them somewhere, if not I might have a few more 


Edited by ozpata, 31 July 2019 - 10:27.


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#752 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 12:30

It's very much your thread, Oscar...

And I'm sure everyone is as delighted as I am with this stuff.

#753 cpbell

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 12:41

It's very much your thread, Oscar...

And I'm sure everyone is as delighted as I am with this stuff.

They're lovely diagrams, especially the Brabham cutaways.


Edited by cpbell, 31 July 2019 - 14:08.


#754 MCS

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 22:07

I still have some doubts on the Melling to Tatts section, though It's not impossible that my childhood recollections weren't quite right, and my long term memory is not infallible after all. I suppose I could have been confusing Village with Anchor, though I don't think so, Peter Swinger's book refers to "...the sharp right-hand Village", which is what I was sure I remembered. A photograph cannot lie, but is Google Earth entirely reliable here? Re-shaping corners wouldn't be a small or cheap job, especially on a track that never saw a great deal of use, and nothing but occasional club action in recent years, but there clearly have been a few changes since the 60s when place was in more active use, but was it ever more than one or two events each year? Adding the golf course inside the Village/Bechers area for example, that wouldn't have been a small earth-moving job. I blame all those horses, never trusted the things...

 

I have no doubt that the tarmac is the same and hasn't been embellished or "re-shaped" in any way, but Village wasn't that tight - let's face it, more cars would have spun there and they very rarely did as far as I know. However, I do recall one individual thumping into one of the horse racing fences on Valentines Way during one of those wonderful Tuesday evening practice sessions, which begs the inevitable question. Can you imagine a Tuesday evening like that even being allowed to take place today? (A very silly question, sadly)...

 

The Melling Road/Tatts kink was pretty slight as I recall, although after such a distance on the Railway Straight it would have required some serious attention and didn't Jim Clark come unstuck here at one point?

 

Steve Wilkinson should know the circuit layout better than most of us here as I suspect Ian Smith doesn't get involved anymore.  Loved the place and wish I could have seen every Grand Prix there (and all of the Club meetings).

 

However, more importantly.  Ozpata (Oscar) - please keep this wonderful thread going with your astounding, fascinating work :clap: and thank you!


Edited by MCS, 31 July 2019 - 22:11.


#755 ozpata

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 01:48

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#756 ozpata

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 11:48

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#757 ozpata

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 11:50

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#758 DCapps

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:21

I was doing some organizing and found this, not the place for it it but maybe some will like them

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Ah, the Typ 1937....

 



#759 ozpata

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 11:04

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#760 ozpata

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:17

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#761 ozpata

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 22:28

following up on Aintree and the corners, i received an answer from John Abel who has been an official at Aintree for 45 years, he has also been  Clerk of the course, is director of the Aintree Motorcycle Club, I described my concern about that section in the Village corner mainly but was curious about the potential changes to the whole track, and basically ask him, if there has been any re profiling or changes to that section, with a map of the track as I did it 

 

his answer was that as far as he knows no changes to the circuit, "Village has remained the same as the old F1 Track. Having walked round the track many, many times you can still see the old bank of the inside of the corner."

 

sometimes things at eye level can look very different or we construct a different image 

 

 

 



#762 ozpata

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 12:07

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#763 ozpata

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 11:54

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#764 kayemod

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 12:34

following up on Aintree and the corners, i received an answer from John Abel who has been an official at Aintree for 45 years, he has also been  Clerk of the course, is director of the Aintree Motorcycle Club, I described my concern about that section in the Village corner mainly but was curious about the potential changes to the whole track, and basically ask him, if there has been any re profiling or changes to that section, with a map of the track as I did it 

 

his answer was that as far as he knows no changes to the circuit, "Village has remained the same as the old F1 Track. Having walked round the track many, many times you can still see the old bank of the inside of the corner."

 

sometimes things at eye level can look very different or we construct a different image 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for taking the trouble to go back and check Oscar, I suspect you're right about things looking different from a set back spectator area some way from the track, though of course very much closer than it would be in today's more safety conscious times, and childhood memories are getting a bit old and faded today. One small point though, the slow motion video posted by Hati showed, to me at any rate, that the entry to Village corner looked tighter than some of the others, opening out as it reached Valentines Way on the way to Bechers, so possibly the corner entry slowed the cars a little more. Anyway, it seemed to us to be the best place to spectate. Our entry to the track must have cost something approaching one Pound, a substantial sum for a schoolboy with only pocket money, way back in the early 60s.



#765 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 13:19

Originally posted by ozpata
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What a circuit!

Lots of corners, changes of altitude, I'm sure there was plenty of atmosphere too.

Along with that, the walls each side of the circuit would have enhanced the sounds, just wonderful stuff.

#766 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 17:50

It's just the changes of altitude that we can't see on the track maps here... Oscar, what about adding contour lines or shaded relief to your superb maps? Not to all of them, of course, but at least to those where altitudes varied much along the circuit?



#767 ozpata

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 22:23

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https://www.daftlogi...nd-altitude.htm

altitude was taken from this place, I don't know how accurate it is  but I did it a few times to make sure and observe possible variations, I have been thinking in a few things to try to make the maps better but need more time 


Edited by ozpata, 12 August 2019 - 22:28.


#768 ozpata

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 15:38

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#769 ozpata

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 12:03

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#770 Barry Boor

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 12:13

Many a happy hour spent at that latest circuit. Such a shame it never survived - athletics, health and safety killed it.

#771 ozpata

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 01:47

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#772 Cavalier53

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 22:09

Hi Oscar,

End of next month I'll be spending a couple of days at the Garda sea - and following your map I selected an apartment on the Viale dei Colli (no. 15) - right between the gentle esses between the hairpin on the NE side and the directional arrow on your map. Is that where the start was?
Should you have anything you want me to look out for? Other tips are welcome of course; so far I only have your map and some pictures on Youtube:

And Farina's 1948 astonishing qualifying time of just over 8 minutes, over 120 kmh on such challenging track.

 

Jan.


Edited by Cavalier53, 24 August 2019 - 22:10.


#773 ozpata

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 11:15

Hi Oscar,

End of next month I'll be spending a couple of days at the Garda sea - and following your map I selected an apartment on the Viale dei Colli (no. 15) - right between the gentle esses between the hairpin on the NE side and the directional arrow on your map. Is that where the start was?
Should you have anything you want me to look out for? Other tips are welcome of course; so far I only have your map and some pictures on Youtube 

And Farina's 1948 astonishing qualifying time of just over 8 minutes, over 120 kmh on such challenging track.

 

Jan.

Hi Jan,

as far as I could find out, the starting point was around there, don't know the exact location but should be close

 

it looks like most of the roads if not all of them are there and driveable, but one has to assume some changes or maybe sections in which traffic will probably be a bit different to accommodate modern movement, I will suspect that most of those modifications to traffic flow will be closer to the coast, I notice a couple of circles by Cunettone in the southern part, but I don't think there has been major changes as there is very little room for it, maybe a couple of spots were the roads got a bit more wider and perhaps most of changes are in the form of houses updating and a few more of them but nothing looks too drastic 



#774 ozpata

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 18:35

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not the best but this is what I could find

 

in the early 60s I think they were going the other way and the layout was slightly different, similar to what they used in the 20s,  the section to the right of my map was not used, they started basically from the town around Via Garibaldi and went down Piazza Vittorio Emanuele, but I am not certain


Edited by ozpata, 25 August 2019 - 18:49.


#775 ozpata

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 22:27

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#776 ozpata

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Posted 30 August 2019 - 11:18

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#777 ozpata

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 12:18

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#778 Sterzo

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 21:27

Many a happy hour spent at that latest circuit. Such a shame it never survived - athletics, health and safety killed it.

One of the many great joys of Crystal Palace in the sixties was arriving by train during morning practice, to hear the sound of F3 screamers echoing inside the train shed. Another was seeing the dismay of the brown-suited, trilby-hatted Greater London Council staff as F3 cars disappeared into their rhododendron bushes at North Tower. The crowd was a mix of racing enthusiasts and Sarf London skinheads who'd "come to see the motors, John."



#779 ozpata

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 15:22

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#780 ozpata

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 11:08

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#781 ozpata

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:48

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this is a new corrected version of Bergamo, Ginetto ( thank you so much) who does a lot of the tracks for grand prix legends and lives close by, went around a few times with a barometric GPS, because I have my doubts with some of the dips on the road, having a wall close by and a little section covered just before the 2k mark, he was sure the changes weren't that accented and so this is the result of using that data

 

I have tried to use different things to get the altitude, first it has to be something that can be used with all of the maps, something straight forward, basically after a few weeks of testing the different versions, they all seem to use the same procedure or starting point, code, and after reading a bit on them, they all kind of admit that they do have some mistakes on them, at least on the free versions available, is confusing and frustrating in some cases, I was testing doing Oulton, Montjuic and Bergamo and sometimes clicking almost right next to the point before will give 20m or more of difference, so I guess that the altitude has to be taken as an approximation.



#782 Duc-Man

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 10:37

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 Wow! I've never seen this variation of Monza before. I guess some drivers that entered the race were pretty surprised when they saw the layout they gonna drive.



#783 ozpata

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 13:38

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#784 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 13:47

That Albert Park layout actually looks a lot better than the one they're using now.



#785 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 22:35

I have some great movie of that, fantastic fast cornering...

But you can't live in the past, can you? Modern requirements had to be met. And I think there was one section which would block everyday traffic if it was used, too.





.

Edited by Ray Bell, 20 September 2019 - 22:36.


#786 ozpata

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 11:51

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#787 ozpata

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 22:35

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#788 Doug Nye

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 22:32

This entire thread's artwork is simply wonderful.    :love:

 

Thank you Oscar...

 

DCN



#789 Duc-Man

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 16:14

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That neighborhood changed quiet a bit...

1945:

 

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Today:

 

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Edited by Duc-Man, 28 September 2019 - 08:24.


#790 2F-001

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 16:24

 Wow! I've never seen this variation of Monza before. I guess some drivers that entered the race were pretty surprised when they saw the layout they gonna drive.

I first encountered that layout in the Klemantaski/Frostick book "Motor Racing Circuits of Europe" (Batsford, 1958) - in fact I think it was the only place I'd ever seen it referenced... until now!

 

Re. Fisherman's Bend... I've been to Melbourne and knew the Fisherman's Bend bit of the Yarra, but had never connected it in my mind with the circuit...! We live and learn...


Edited by 2F-001, 26 September 2019 - 16:24.


#791 PayasYouRace

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 09:17

At some point I'll have to scour the thread and find all my favourites again.



#792 MCS

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 19:18

At some point I'll have to scour the thread and find all my favourites again.

 

Absolutely!  I keep starting and then begin investigating further, as they say - but I will keep coming back.  Hopefully I will catch up one day, or maybe not - I will just continue to take my time.

 

So many of Oscar's wonderful maps really get you thinking.  



#793 ozpata

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 11:29

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#794 ozpata

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 22:48

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#795 Barry Boor

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 06:45

What a coincidence - I walked a large part of the downhill section of this wonderful circuit, just over a week ago.

#796 LittleChris

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 21:25

You didn't fancy walking the uphill part then Barry ?  :D



#797 DCapps

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 21:47

Re: Fisherman's Bend

 

I shall be there later this month as part of the tour of the area being given by Norm Darwin. It is an outing that is one of the features of this year's annual conference of the Automotive Historians Australia being held at RMIT.



#798 ozpata

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 10:56

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#799 ozpata

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 14:41

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just a reminder that the first post gets updated every time I post a new map, there you will find a list of all the tracks done to date


Edited by ozpata, 11 October 2019 - 14:48.


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#800 ozpata

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 16:14

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