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#101 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 18:18

I also did drive on the remains of the old Charade circuit last year, and, as well as it has happened with almost all former road circuits of the days gone by, now nothing could say to an occasional visitor about their racing past. So much more valuable are the maps made by Oscar, who tries to restore the exact status rerum of every circuit in the days of its flourishing  :up:

 

 

BTW, the simple diesel FIAT 500L wasn't the best car to take pleasure of driving through all those curves but I did my best  :cool:



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#102 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 22:22

More power to you, Alexey!

The car I used for my adventures last year was a Peugeot 208 turbo-diesel hatch, performance was certainly adequate but I wasn't there to set lap records.

Brno was the least-affected of the circuits I saw, though Bari and Pescara weren't too bad either. The big problem I had with Rouen was that nobody knew where it was and it was just outside the town maps and too small to find on district maps.

Naturally, I fully photographed (stills only) every circuit I drove except the 'Short' Madonie.

#103 GeoffR

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 10:21

If this is OT to the subject then Mods please delete/create new thread.

 

Finally managed to upload the in car we took of driving what can still be driven of the old Charade circuit, as accurately as I could estimate anyway. Video was done on a iPhone, so quality could be better. And vehicle was a Toyota CHR hybrid.

 


Edited by GeoffR, 02 June 2017 - 10:27.


#104 MCS

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 11:27

Full marks Geoff!  Wonderful video.

 

Yet another example of how it was then, as opposed to the total crap nowadays.



#105 wolf sun

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 12:05

Somewhere on a nameless harddrive I have a similar lap filmed by the missus from the passenger seat in 2007.  :wave:



#106 ozpata

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 10:21

first post list updated

 

benall10.jpg


Edited by ozpata, 23 June 2017 - 18:45.


#107 AleSi

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 13:49

Hi Oscar. I love your work, especially Brno, where I live. Anyway, if you would like to have more accurate map of surroundings from pre-war Masaryk Circuit, you can look here. It might help, it´s map from 1921.

http://mapy.geogr.mu....html?id=695871

 

Ales



#108 cpbell

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 15:38

first post list updated

 

Benalla_36Fsm_zpsotjlec6j.png

Without wishing to incur the wrath of Ray, that appears to have been a rather dull circuit.



#109 opplock

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 15:53

The Benalla circuit must have been designed by a maths teacher attempting to make geometry more appealing to teenage boys.  



#110 kayemod

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 16:02

The Benalla circuit must have been designed by a maths teacher attempting to make geometry more appealing to teenage boys.  

 

Yes, it was designed by Pythagoras. His tracks were criticised as being too interesting though, so his job was handed to Hermann Tilke.



#111 LittleChris

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 19:46

Somewhere on a nameless harddrive I have a similar lap filmed by the missus from the passenger seat in 2007.  :wave:

Same here though mine's on videotape !!  Geoff's video perfectly shows what a great corner Gravenoire was  :up: 



#112 GMACKIE

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 21:50

Yes, it was designed by Pythagoras. His tracks were criticised as being too interesting though, so his job was handed to Hermann Tilke.

Was the speed on the main straight equal to the sum of the speeds on the other 2 straights, I wonder ?



#113 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 22:12

Originally posted by cpbell
Without wishing to incur the wrath of Ray, that appears to have been a rather dull circuit.


Nobody here ever incurs my wrath... ever...

If you're here you're a step above the average already. But as for the dullness of the one and only Benalla race meeting, two things stick in my mind.

The first is that I camped right alongside the circuit for a week and didn't know it had existed during a holiday with my family (including competing at Winton) back in 1975 and didn't know the circuit had existed!

The second is the far-from-dull ongoing battle the organisers had in running the meeting in the face of Government and Police opposition. Probably worsened by the fact that highway traffic had to take a detour during the meeting.

#114 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 22:13

Originally posted by GMACKIE
Was the speed on the main straight equal to the sum of the speeds on the other 2 straights, I wonder?


That only applies to Austin 7s...

#115 ozpata

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 10:22

list at first post updated

winfie10.jpg


Edited by ozpata, 23 June 2017 - 18:44.


#116 ozpata

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:28

forez_10.jpg


Edited by ozpata, 23 June 2017 - 18:41.


#117 William Hunt

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 13:10

ozpata: if you were to publish those maps in a book, I would buy it in a heartbeat



#118 kayemod

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 13:26

ozpata: if you were to publish those maps in a book, I would buy it in a heartbeat

 

Me too, and I suspect also a goodly proportion of TNF.

 

Don't bother with Racing Comments though, they don't do history further back than a couple of years or so.



#119 wolf sun

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 15:23

If you're ever going to have these printed as a book I hereby place my order.

 

Bravo!!!

 

ozpata: if you were to publish those maps in a book, I would buy it in a heartbeat

 

 

Me too, and I suspect also a goodly proportion of TNF.

 

 

 

:up:  TNF crowdfunding maybe?



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#120 LittleChris

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 23:02

Sounds good to me :up: 



#121 ozpata

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 10:19

first post list updated  Les Sables d'Olonne 1951-52

les_sa10.jpg


Edited by ozpata, 23 June 2017 - 18:40.


#122 cpbell

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 10:38

Me too, and I suspect also a goodly proportion of TNF.

 

Don't bother with Racing Comments though, they don't do history further back than a couple of years or so.

Hear, hear!  Regarding your latter point, the number of times I've tried to bring something of an historical perspective on contemporary F1 problems or questions and have been ignored by people who've made sweeping statements on what the think F1 was.  There was one case recently when someone argued that pitstop strategy was always a part of F1.  As usual, my attempt at a good-natured correction regarding much of the 1960s, in particular the 1.5 litre era, was ignored.  As far as many are concerned, pit strategy is a full substitute for close, on-track battles.  I find myself wondering what Innes Ireland might have had to say on that viewpoint were he still with us, given his apparent love of a good battle.



#123 2F-001

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 11:02

The Benalla circuit must have been designed by a maths teacher attempting to make geometry more appealing to teenage boys.  

Ted Lloyd Jones might have enjoyed racing here.



#124 ReWind

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 17:25

@ ozpata:
 
Two things.
 
First:
It is Hohenstein-Ernstthal (no "stahl" [steel] in it)
 
Second:
Would you be able to insert kilometre-marks?
I think it would be nice if one could follow a lap on the map from - for instance - 0.5 km to 1.0 km, to 1.5 km and so forth.
 
 
EDIT: I deleted the old Sachsenring map because the link is broken.


Edited by ReWind, 24 June 2017 - 11:03.


#125 ozpata

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 21:23

sorry for the mistake

sachse10.jpg


Edited by ozpata, 23 June 2017 - 10:25.


#126 kayemod

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 22:54

That's OK, you're doing a great job, but could you add a date to the last one?

 

I'm guessing late 1920s.



#127 ozpata

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 23:54

not completely certain but the 1927 to around 1934 layout was about 8 km, after that, it went to 8.6 and in 1938 to 8.7, then apparently after the war, changed to 8.6 and was like that  up to 1963/4 and a very small increase of about 4m by 1972


Edited by ozpata, 13 June 2017 - 10:39.


#128 ozpata

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 14:48

lyon_110.jpg


Edited by ozpata, 23 June 2017 - 10:22.


#129 ozpata

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:04

boreha10.jpg


Edited by ozpata, 23 June 2017 - 10:23.


#130 Allen Brown

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:09

Just to say I'm still loving this thread ozpata!



#131 MCS

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 17:54

Aren't we all?

 

I think it's absolutely wonderful.  Keep going ozpata!!


Edited by MCS, 20 June 2017 - 16:40.


#132 Hati

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 06:57

Lyon looks like there was well over ten kilometers of full throttle. Made me wondering what was track with all time longest full throttle section and do we have map of it?



#133 uechtel

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 11:20

549-504x344.gif

 

(Sorry, could not resist that)


Edited by uechtel, 21 June 2017 - 11:20.


#134 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 11:27

What a contrast with Oscar's masterpieces... ;)

#135 cpbell

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 14:18

Lyon looks like there was well over ten kilometers of full throttle. Made me wondering what was track with all time longest full throttle section and do we have map of it?

I was reading only the other evening in Volume 2 of Pomeroy's The Grand Prix Car that the circuit for the first GP de l'ACF in 1906 featured a section of near-straight road for nearly 20 continuous miles, which, at 90-100 mph, would have probably taken nearly 15 minutes from end to end.

Further to you point regarding the Lyon circuit, I'm not sure what the return road from the far end of the circuit, through Le Pont Rompu (Broken Bridge) was like then, but, on Streetview it now seems pretty straight.  Certainly the outward leg from Givors was (and to a fair degree still is) narrow and not very straight as it was a corniche road cut into the hillside of the Gier valley.

 

The following link is in French, but it's fairly easy to understand the place names and it contains several period photos:

http://www.cparama.c...914-t17579.html


Edited by cpbell, 21 June 2017 - 14:26.


#136 ozpata

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 10:36

lyon_210.jpg


Edited by ozpata, 23 June 2017 - 10:20.


#137 Michael Ferner

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 10:41

Lyon looks like there was well over ten kilometers of full throttle. Made me wondering what was track with all time longest full throttle section and do we have map of it?


I seriously doubt that any of those bends and kinks could've been taken full throttle in a 1914 car! A maximum of two miles full throttle, as I see it.

#138 cpbell

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 10:44

Lyon_24Fsm_zpst0tw4mle.png

On the left-hand side of this map, you can see that the 1924 circuit re-joined the return leg from the previous version at a sharp right-hasnder; from memory this was near to Pont Rompu.  On the outward leg, it also turned off just outside Givors before the corniche section above the River Gier.



#139 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 13:24

I don't know about you blokes...

But these maps make me feel like I was taking another trip to Europe.

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#140 Michael Ferner

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 13:49

Not me, Ray. I am in Europe.


:p

#141 kayemod

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 14:05

Not me, Ray. I am in Europe.


:p

 

So am I. Well sort of anyway, are we speaking geographically or in a political sense?



#142 Michael Ferner

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 15:20

Is the anchor already lifted? :wave:

#143 Allan Lupton

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 21:55

Is the anchor already lifted? :wave:

and when it is, you'll see what all those nuclear power stations on the coast are for . . .


Edited by Allan Lupton, 23 June 2017 - 09:29.


#144 Hati

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 09:01

Images don't show, I really do hope that its just temporary problem.

 

I was reading only the other evening in Volume 2 of Pomeroy's The Grand Prix Car that the circuit for the first GP de l'ACF in 1906 featured a section of near-straight road for nearly 20 continuous miles, which, at 90-100 mph, would have probably taken nearly 15 minutes from end to end.

 

If I found right wiki article straight was from Bouloire to Saint-Calais which is around 15 km according to google maps. At least map on wiki page shows that there was some sort of chicane/corners at Bouloire.

https://en.wikipedia...ench_Grand_Prix

 

(I also learned from that article that parc ferme is older than I thought (and is much more appropriate in that use than in F1).)



#145 ozpata

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 10:19

lyon_210.jpg



#146 opplock

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 18:21

Most of the maps have been replaced by a Photobucket message saying the account has been blocked. Is nothing sacred!



#147 Allen Brown

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 21:14

Most of the maps have been replaced by a Photobucket message saying the account has been blocked. Is nothing sacred!

 

ozpata, if it would be helpful, I'd be very happy to host the older maps on OldRacingCars.com for as long as you want.  That way you won't use up any allowances on Photobucket, and they won't ever expire.  Then you can edit your old posts and change the addresses.   

 

I'm at allen@oldracingcars.com 



#148 Allen Brown

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 10:00

ozpata, if it would be helpful, I'd be very happy to host the older maps on OldRacingCars.com for as long as you want.  That way you won't use up any allowances on Photobucket, and they won't ever expire.  Then you can edit your old posts and change the addresses.   

 

I'm at allen@oldracingcars.com 

 

 

Excellent, I see they are all back up, now on servimg.com.  The offer stands, if you ever need it ozpata.



#149 ozpata

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 11:05

thanks Allen, I really appreciate it, I've  been looking for some options for a couple of weeks but haven't decide it yet, have a few things to go through and get organized



#150 ozpata

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 10:28

it probably needs some correction, after quite a few months, I couldn't find anything that showed the starting point, the rest was was following a very simple map and trying to match distance and some marks according to some streets, since the starting point in 1947 was around that spot, but going the opposite way and the circuit was longer, for now I put the starting point there as a reference  showing direction

 

 

marsei13.jpg