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#201 Barry Boor

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 11:26

My track map of Ibsley doesn't show the run down to that 90 degree left handed, just a straight run along the top of Ozpata's map.

I always called it the loaf of bread circuit. Turn it 90 degrees clockwise and you'll see what I mean.

Edited by Barry Boor, 10 August 2017 - 11:27.


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#202 ozpata

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 14:03

from what I have, the layout you mention is the 54-55



#203 Bumblyari

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 14:14

Ozpata is correct, the version that includes Middle Bend was the earlier layout used until 1953 and incorporated parts of the old runways.

 

(Mind you, it still resembles my Mothers' Pride after I have retrieved it from my over-filled 5p carrier bags).

 

Unfortunately you will need a boat to navigate the circuit today as you can see here:

 

http://www.thenewfor...rfields/ibsley/



#204 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 22:45

I guess that's one I'll never drive around...

Very interesting. Oh, and take care not to pack your bread carelessly.

#205 fuzzi

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 05:41

What a terrific piece of work - you must be exhausted!

 

Please keep going, the collection is going to give hours of fascination. :clap: 



#206 ozpata

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 10:39

rostoc10.jpg



#207 ozpata

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 14:52

gransd11.jpg



#208 Barry Boor

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 18:48

Another track I have built and raced slot cars on.

#209 ozpata

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 10:33

snette10.jpg



#210 Barry Boor

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 10:44

Ditto

#211 cpbell

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 18:36

snette10.jpg

My local circuit (though it was modified before I was born).  My dad spectated there in period, though; mainly at motorcycle meetings (he saw several of the great names there), but also cars.  He's going to check some of the photos he captured as he doesn't recall the straight coming back from the Hairpin (the Home Straight) being much wider than the preceding straight (the Norwich Straight).


Edited by cpbell, 21 August 2017 - 18:37.


#212 ozpata

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 10:45

nantes10.jpg



#213 Barry Boor

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 11:10

Believe it or not, this one too. http://188.65.115.17...ots/nantes.html

#214 ozpata

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 11:08

bernau10.jpg



#215 MCS

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 12:11

That last one looks like hard work: four tight, severe hairpins each lap... Ugh.



#216 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 13:08

Worse...

They were probably on concrete.

#217 ozpata

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 23:26

monza_10.jpg



#218 Nick Wa

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 09:22

My local circuit (though it was modified before I was born).  My dad spectated there in period, though; mainly at motorcycle meetings (he saw several of the great names there), but also cars.  He's going to check some of the photos he captured as he doesn't recall the straight coming back from the Hairpin (the Home Straight) being much wider than the preceding straight (the Norwich Straight).

Your Father is correct. The Home Straight used that runway but its width was divided between track and spectators. Further the track was split between a "safety zone" and the course by a row of oil drums with the spectators behind a light rope. Later this rope was replaced by a fence made from railway sleepers. The inside of the hairpin was acute (sharp) like a school protractor and the exit width being about half the runway width for about 50 yards before being funneled to about quarter width by the oil drums. For one AMOC meeting a handicap chicane was tried  after the hairpin, straight on, a left right left wobble or 90 left hairpin right 90 left. At the "Esses" end of the straight the drawing needs lengthening slightly as the left hand mid corner is on the intersection of the runways. On the "Esses" exit right hand apex used to flood so a pit was dug and a pump installed. Again later a sort of mini Carousal banking was made, I assume this later was called the bomb hole on the revised circuit.



#219 ozpata

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 11:10

monza_12.jpg



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#220 MCS

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 11:11

Snetterton:

 

...On the "Esses" exit right hand apex used to flood so a pit was dug and a pump installed. Again later a sort of mini Carousal banking was made, I assume this later was called the bomb hole on the revised circuit...

 

I seem to recall that the "Bomb Hole" flooded in the seventies as well.

 

Fascinating post, Nick - full marks.

 

(Edited to include circuit name - this forum software really is rubbish).


Edited by MCS, 02 September 2017 - 11:13.


#221 kayemod

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 11:28

Something that's always puzzled me slightly about Monza from the days when the circuit they raced on included the banking. During a race, cars would move right across the outer track to enter the banking, but how did cars leaving the banking cope with maybe slightly slower cars wanting to move across in front of them? We all know that most drivers behaved in a more gentlemanly manner back then, but it can't have been a polite "After you sir" all the time. They didn't have a Verstappen or a Perez in those days, but they did have a Farina, seems unlikely to me that everything went smoothly all of the time.



#222 Barry Boor

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 11:52

As the cars came out of the corner that is now the Parabolica they kept to the right of a line of cones that were placed down the centre of the start finish straight. This led them onto the banking.

As they left the second banking they were automatically to the left of those cones which led them right down to the Curva Grande. Thus there was never a situation where cars were trying to cross one another.

#223 kayemod

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 12:53

Yes, thanks Barry. I was forgetting how much older tracks like Monza have been mucked about with over the years, everything is clear now, though it wasn't from Ozpata's maps.

I was sure you'd have a photo of the original layout laid out on your carpet in Scalextric to illustrate things though.

Something like this in 1/32nd scale, but this full size pic (1954?) would look much nicer with your carpet behind it.

 

 

b12b9795375cea28f3186c87a75abcf0.jpg


Edited by kayemod, 02 September 2017 - 13:03.


#224 Barry Boor

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 18:02

I've certainly raced on it but I'm not sure I have a photo. I certainly have a track plan on my laptop.

#225 Vitesse2

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 18:25

monza_12.jpg

Although that layout is theoretically from 1939 (which was when it was supposed to have been finished) it wasn't actually completed until 1940 - I think the track was finished on time, but the buildings certainly weren't. Alfa Romeo did occasionally use it for testing during the war years, but the first semi-official use I can find of it was in April 1945, when General Mark Clark used it to review his troops. As might be imagined, these tanks of the South African Armoured Division made a bit of a mess of it! The whole place then became a military transport/war surplus depot and so it didn't actually see any racing until late 1948.

 

6_SA_Arm_Div_Monza_Parade.jpg



#226 ozpata

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:38

monza_11.jpg



#227 Duc-Man

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:44

I knew I had a maps of Monza in a book. Here is the 1948 incarnation:

36809180656_ff12941e96_h.jpg



#228 ozpata

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:19

ballar10.jpg



#229 ozpata

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 12:02

I am working on Bois de Boulogne 1945, the track is reported about 2.8 to 2.9 km but when I measure the closest I can get is 2.6, anyway in 1946 apparently there were two more races on a circuit using the same name but at 2.9 to 3.2 km, was that in the same circuit as in 1945 with a badly reported measurement ? 

they could have used some extra roads right next to the park or maybe they used other parts of the park , but I can't seem to find any description that will confirm any roads or changes when compare to the 1945 version



#230 Vitesse2

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 12:46

The earlier of the two 1946 circuits was apparently different to the one used in 1945. The one used in October 1946 was substantially the same as the first 1946 one, but I believe they inserted some chicanes and re-profiled a couple of corners. I'm not at home at the moment, but I think there might be maps of one or more layout on Stats.f1 (under the non-championship link) and/or racingmemo.free.fr



#231 ozpata

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 13:25

Thanks for the info, I had already look in there, where pretty much says that the first 46 race and the 45 was basically the same or at least it comes across that way to me, again the measurement is 2.8 which is hard to get to  from period aerial pictures but is not impossible, the most accurate will be 2.6 and change

 

I can see how they got from 2.8 to 2.9, probably from rounding the number for the first race of 1946  but from there to 3.2 is a substantial distance, I can imagine a few spots where they could do the extra distance but I have no map, drawings or description that will clarify so maybe I will just finish the 45 for now

 

thank you for the help



#232 Tim Murray

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 14:08

The same question was asked in an earlier thread, but nothing definite about the 1946 circuit layouts was produced:

Bois de Boulogne circuits

#233 ozpata

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 10:06

elaint10.jpg



#234 ozpata

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:28

golden10.jpg



#235 cpbell

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:15

golden10.jpg

That sequence of sweeping curves after the pits must have been exciting in a powerful car, I'd have thought.



#236 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 23:55

They would certainly make up for the sharp turns!

Any idea what kind of cars ran there?

#237 ozpata

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 00:22

I think it was mainly sport cars, SCCA



#238 Tim Murray

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 00:41

According to the Motor Sport article below, there was an F3 race the first year (1952), otherwise, as Ozpata says, it was sports racing and production cars. The circuit was killed by noise complaints and safety concerns:

http://www.motorspor...olden-gate-park

Here are the 1954 results on the WSRP site:

http://www.wsrp.cz/natus1954.html#46

#239 Ray Bell

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 01:53

So between some Ferrari 375MMs, some Chrysler-powered Allards, some Maseratis (including another Chrysler-powered car) and an XK120 or two there were some cars there with a bit of grunt...

It doesn't look like it was a hard track on brakes, either. Maybe a bit of a power circuit.

The 'Crosley V8' looks interesting.



.

Edited by Ray Bell, 19 September 2017 - 01:54.


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#240 Michael Ferner

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 06:59

https://www.hemmings...he-crosley-v-8/

#241 ozpata

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 10:08

silver15.jpg

 

neplig13.jpg

 

a corrected version of Nepliget Park from some new material from the period



#242 Tim Murray

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 10:46

I think the dates for Silverstone above should read 1952-1975. The chicane at Woodcote was introduced just before the Grand Prix meeting in July, so events in the first part of 1975, including major events such as the International Trophy, were run on the old layout. Also, I've a feeling that some motorcyle races continued to use the old chicane-free layout for a few years after that.

#243 ozpata

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 00:21

bois_d11.jpg



#244 GMACKIE

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 02:25

I am in awe of your your dedication and ability, ozpata. :up: Each 'Track Map' is not only very interesting, but also a fine work of art!

 

Thank you for sharing.



#245 Michael Ferner

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 15:01

I think the dates for Silverstone above should read 1952-1975. The chicane at Woodcote was introduced just before the Grand Prix meeting in July, so events in the first part of 1975, including major events such as the International Trophy, were run on the old layout. Also, I've a feeling that some motorcyle races continued to use the old chicane-free layout for a few years after that.


I don't think motorcycles ever raced through the Woodcote chicane; all Silverstone bike races I ever saw didn't.

#246 Tim Murray

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 15:31

Thanks Michael - I wasn't at all sure.

#247 ozpata

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 12:17

reims_11.jpg



#248 ozpata

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 09:56

perpig10.jpg



#249 lustigson

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 16:03

perpig10.jpg

 

Looks like that circuit is still fully accessible in modern-day Perpignan.



#250 ozpata

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 10:14

gavea_11.jpg