10 replies to this topic

[TerryS]

This is a fascinating story about the ATS Team of the early 1960's. They made their own FI machine as well as a GT

Some great period photos.

It was very disappointing that such a great driver as Phil Hill got caught up in this mess and it virtually ended his GP career.

I love the story of Enzo Ferrari sacking his top driver and eight top staff to please his wife.

Highly recommended:

https://primotipo.co...sport-a-t-s-f1/

[StanBarrett2]

Very interesting story, and well done !

[ensign14]

The crazy thing is ATS had the best Ferrari staff and made a total pig's breakfast of it.  Whereas the runt of the litter turned Ferrari back around into world champions in 1964. 

 

It's like Wenger dropping the entire Arsenal first team, and seeing the reserves romp to the title next year.

[D28]

The crazy thing is ATS had the best Ferrari staff and made a total pig's breakfast of it.  Whereas the runt of the litter turned Ferrari back around into world champions in 1964. 

 

It's like Wenger dropping the entire Arsenal first team, and seeing the reserves romp to the title next year.

True Ferrari fired 8 of his top executives in 1960 including design engineers Chitti and Bizzarrini and foundry head Galassi, but others just down the ladder were retained. Ferrari was also extremely fortunate to have on staff one of the design geniuses of the era, even though he was only 26 years old. Ferrari named Mauro Forghieri head of motor sport activity and testing, in a simple phone call.

Ferrari possessed all the physical assets, foundry, machine tools, testing equipment, everything a modern racing plant might require. Niki Lauda wondered a few years later on his first visit to the factory, "Why don't they win all the time"?

In contrast ATS would have few real equipment assets; they probably performed as well as could be expected, but in the long run, the advantage was always with Ferrari.

Edited by D28, 10 March 2017 - 03:02.

[Ray Bell]

The design of the chassis, with the need to put in extra tubes and to cut out tubes to remove the engine, shows that the wrong people were doing the job...

Time must have been against them too, as Mark has proposed in the story (the dedication to the GT car in the critical part of the season), while they didn't have the test facilities Ferrari enjoyed. Additionally, the top team were working with new personnel right down the chain and had to get used to that.

[TerryS]

It seems very strange that "professionals" designed a chassis where it had to be cut to get the engine and gearbox out.

[Jack-the-Lad]

It always saddens me to think that Phil Hill's open wheel career was, for all intents and purposes, ended by his jumping to ATS, his later drives notwithstanding. Among those of you in a position to know: Was the Scuderia about to cut him loose anyway, or would his loyalty have been rewarded if he had stayed? Was his decision perhaps more emotional than clear-eyed?

[Ray Bell]

I wonder just how much he put into those drives with ATS?

The energy he put into his final open-wheeler drive was enormous, so much so that he regarded it as the greatest race he ever drove. It was no miserable third-placed finish, rather a challenging, record-setting climax to a Champion's career in which he humbled Jim Clark, trounced Graham Hill and forced Jack Brabham to tuck his chin down the hardest he ever did.

It certainly made a mockery of the short shrift John Cooper gave him.

[D28]

I wonder just how much he put into those drives with ATS?

The energy he put into his final open-wheeler drive was enormous, so much so that he regarded it as the greatest race he ever drove. It was no miserable third-placed finish, rather a challenging, record-setting climax to a Champion's career in which he humbled Jim Clark, trounced Graham Hill and forced Jack Brabham to tuck his chin down the hardest he ever did.

It certainly made a mockery of the short shrift John Cooper gave him.

You are referring to the 1965 Australian GP. Bruce McLaren thought enough of his abilities to hire him for his Tasman team and this was after John Cooper stood Hill down for the 64 Italian GP at Monza. Inexplicable as 2 of Hill's 3 wins came at Monza the last just 3 years previously. Ironically his replacement John Love failed to qualify and McLaren finished 2nd, the best placing all year for Cooper. Had Hill been in the car, they could have had both cars in the points at least. 

For whatever reasons his F1 career sort of petered out but he still had solid sports car outings , (Can-Am and Endurance wins for Chaparral) and the Tasman series you mention.

Edited by D28, 12 March 2017 - 00:25.

[Roger Clark]

I don't know the circumstances of Phil Hill's departure form Ferrari but his performances early in 1962 were excellent. His chase of McLaren in the Monaco Grand Prix must be one of his finest Grand Prix drives and in sports cars he was second at Sebring, first at Nurburgring and Le Mans. After that, Ferrari more or less gave up, as he had done in 1957 and would do in 1969 once he had decided that his current cars had had their day and new ones were on the way.

In 1964 Cooper were well down the Climax pecking order and Bruce McLaren got the best of what they had. Phil Hill stood no chance and there is a suggestion (Doug Nye, Cooper Cars) that his car did not achieve full throttle after the first few laps.

I think that his Longford drive, mentioned by Ray, and in the Chaparrals showed that he still had it, even though he was probably at his best when there was plenty of power to be controlled.

As regards ATS (which is the subject of this thread!) it is easy for those of us brought up in the era of garagistes to forget how much more difficult it is to design and build an engine than a chassis. ATS were taking on a huge task and didn't have the budget or resources to do it. Chiti was an engine man and probably believed Ferrari's dictum that the chassis was there to connect the engine to the wheels. You have only to look at pictures of a Sharknose without bodywork to see that. The ATS chassis looked as if it was sketched on the back of a lunch menu and left for the mechanics to fill in the detail and I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

[TerryS]

Besides his Formula 1 career, Phil Hill had great success in Sports Car Racing.

To mention some:

He won Le Mans 24Hr in 1958,1961 and 1962
He won 12 hrs of Sebring in 1958, 1959 and 1961
He won 1000kms of Buenos Aires in 1958 and 1960
He won 1000 kms of Nurburgring in 1962 and 1966

An incredibly versatile driver