20 replies to this topic

[eldridge]

Could this be the « unseen » D’Aoust ?

 

In October 1924 at Montlhéry, a « Match des Champions » was held during a race meeting between three cars and their drivers.

 

1. Ernest Eldrige and Mephistopheles

2. G Parry-Thomas and his Leyland-Thomas No1

3. Arthur Duray and a 120HP D’Aoust

 

The race was won by Eldridge after the Leyland suffered tyre problems. The D’Aoust was last.

 

Obviously the history of the first two cars are very well documented, but the D’Aoust remains something of a mystery. J D’Aoust built smallish cars in Belgium, but this was a larger car fitted with a 120HP Hispano V8 engine.

 

I seem to remember Mr Boddy asking his readers if anyone had a photo of the car – I do not think any were forthcoming…

 

Could the car hiding behind the Leyland-Thomas be that mystery D’Aoust ?

 

 

[Ray Bell]

I hope you get something further on this...

Good detective work!

[GMACKIE]

Going by the position of the valve gear and exhaust on this Hispano-engined Delage, you could be right!

 

[Vitesse2]

I did a quick trawl through the reports of the meeting on Gallica, but there's absolutely no clue to the origin of any of the three cars - Maurice Philippe referred to them purely as the relevant drivers' bolides. Duray is barely mentioned and I couldn't even find any times, so if the Brooklands timekeepers had published the result I would guess he would have appeared as third by 'a distance'.

 

About the only detail I could find was that the Match des Champions was due to start at 4.15pm, after which a Bignan would commence a 24-hour run at 5.00pm.

[robert dick]

Another view of Duray's D'Aoust, October 1924, Montlhéry (photo/copyright Mercedes-Benz Classic);
the Hispano-engined special was painted yellow:

 

[group7]

There is mention of the car in letters,  Motor Sport 1999. I have not had time to delve further, but could lead to some thing else.

 

http://www.motorspor...at-about-daoust

 

 

Michael, in Canada

[eldridge]

Like London buses...

 

Brilliant - thank you Robert.

[robert dick]

D'Aoust in general:

In the 1914 Ostende and Boulogne meetings, held in the second half of July, just before the outbreak of the Great War, René Hanriot drove a 2-litre D'Aoust in the racing car class.

 

A "semi-racing type" 3-liter 4-cylinder (mentioned by Bill Body in Motor Sport based on William Bradley contemporary description) was exhibited at the Brussels show between 10 and 19 December 1920. The car was not shown complete, only the engine, clutch and gearbox. Cylinder dimensions were 89 x 120 mm, cast iron block with detachable head. A single overhead camshaft was driven by a vertical shaft at the front and operated three vertical valves per cylinder. The engine was built "to the designs of a leading French specialist" (from Motor Age):

 

Gustave d'Aoust had the intention the start in the 1920 and 1921 Indianapolis 500 (from Motor Age):



We have three first names:
- Jules d'Aoust according to the webpages;
- Gustave according to Motor Age, 1920;
- Paul who was "secrétaire général" of the Royal Automobile-Club de Belgique and attorney in Brussels.
Was the D'Aoust company = Établissements D'Aoust Frères, Société Anonyme = Jules + Gustave + Paul d'Aoust?
 

[VDP]

There were at least 2 companies called d'Aoust located at the same area

 

A wool company  d'Aoust SA

 

A car company founded by Jules d'Aoust 

 

Robert

[robert dick]

On 13 July 1924, Duray and the D'Aoust finished second in the Coupe de l'Autodrome at Miramas:




Alzaga drove a 4.9-litre "Coppa Florio" Sunbeam, a 3-litre GP chassis with 4.9-litre 6-cylinder engine.
Guyot finished third with his first "Spéciale", a combination of 2-litre Rolland-Pilain GP chassis with 3-litre Duesenberg engine.
Mambouk started at the wheel of a 2-litre 8-cylinder Bugatti, a stripped short-chassis type 30 - he was in second place after 100 km.
 

[VDP]

Some currently belgian infos are reporting a 9.6 liters engine  ??

[Vitesse2]

Some currently belgian infos are reporting a 9.6 liters engine  ??

Which is odd, given that even the first Hispano-Suiza V8s are said to have been 11.76 litres (717.77ci). I can't find a quoted power output under 140HP either. With anything up to 300HP being more common. 120 seems very low for a big lump like that, considering that (for example) the 1924 GP Talbots were rated at 100.

 

Might these be 120 'tax horses'? And if so; which 'tax horses' - French, Italian, Spanish?

[Ray Bell]

As 'rated' horsepower generally works out at around 1hp per litre, that would be the case...

It all depends on the bore and stroke, of course. But a Morris 8/40 was somewhere in the 800cc range with the '8' identifying it as 8 rated horsepower. The whole thing being based on steam engine practice, of course.

[GMACKIE]

The Morris 8 was RAC rated horsepower. The bore squared X the number of cylinders, all divided by 2.5. Stroke didn't come into it.

[Ray Bell]

That's what I said, Greg...

To relate it to litres would depend on the stroke, but in typical engines of the period it was close.

[GMACKIE]

No Ray...this is wat you said :-

As 'rated' horsepower generally works out at around 1hp per litre, that would be the case...

It all depends on the bore and stroke, of course. But a Morris 8/40 was somewhere in the 800cc range with the '8' identifying it as 8 rated horsepower. The whole thing being based on steam engine practice, of course.

1hp per litre???

[Ray Bell]

Of course not...

About 10hp per litre. You knew that.

[GMACKIE]

Ford 105E engine was 997cc, and 16.3 hp...

[Ray Bell]

Of course, due to its short stroke and big bore...

Which you also knew. And that the Cortina 1500, with another 50% capacity, is the same.

And a VW 1200 is about 14.4hp or something.

[GMACKIE]

Looks as though the message is getting through.

 

That silly RAC horsepower formula - used for raising tax - restricted English engine development for decades.

[Charlieman]

That silly RAC horsepower formula - used for raising tax - restricted English engine development for decades.

That's what I used to think too. However, when you look at changing fashions followed by Italian and French engine designers, it is less certain. There are lots of shorter stroke designs followed by a longer stroke model.

 

For years, few designers had the confidence to create short stroke, high RPM engines. The materials science and manufacturing techniques simply didn't exist. With a lot of money, the Auto Union D Type was built with 65mm x 75mm cylinders -- and it took another 20 or 30 years before equivalent steels and machine tools became commonplace. The extra road tax rating (cost of a couple of tyres) wouldn't have mattered much to first-buyers of a stinkingly expensive sports car.

 

For high performance road cars, British designers were conservative in the 1950s. However, I have always wondered where Ferrari and Maserati owners bought their high octane fuel. Perhaps those low mileage claims contain an element of truth...