4006 replies to this topic

[f1paul]

It's time to discuss, argue and have a few rants as the Driver vs Driver threads are now allowed to be started! 
 
With Nico Rosberg retiring, Valtteri Bottas replaces him and joins arguably the best driver on the grid.
 
My first question is: How will Bottas fare against Hamilton?
 
(remember to be nice to each other guys)

 

Edited by f1paul, 26 March 2017 - 20:15.

[Kvothe]

Hmmm not sure this was the best effort at an opening post, and certainly isn't helped by the ehem.... plug for another person's blog.

I'm not hyped for this battle yet. I want to see what Valtteri can bring before I come to any opinion but I expect the thread to be drastically quieter this year...More excited about the potential battle with Ferrari!

Edited by Kvothe, 23 March 2017 - 19:36.

[FullOppositeLock]

IBTL

On topic, I hope and expect Valtteri will prove he is on the same level as Rosberg or thereabouts. Chances are that Merc are still the dominant force, so for Lewis to walk the championship would be a tragedy for F1 in general.

Edited by FullOppositeLock, 23 March 2017 - 19:35.

[f1paul]

Hmmm not sure this was the best effort at an opening post, and certainly isn't helped by the ehem.... plug for another person's blog.

I'm not hyped for this battle yet. I want to see what Valtteri can bring before I come to any opinion but I expect the forum to be drastically quieter this year...More excited about the potential battle with Ferrari!

Sorry, I can get rid of the link and change the OP if you want

[RECKLESS]

I hope Valtteri gets up to speed fast early in the season. New team, huge learning curve, boss teammate. Dream situation to show the world what his got!

[f1paul]

IBTL

On topic, I hope and expect Valtteri will prove he is on the same level as Rosberg or thereabouts. Chances are that Merc are still the dominant force, so for Lewis to walk the championship would be a tragedy for F1 in general.

 

In the last few years the threads were usually opened (or re-opened if someone started one earlier) on thursday. Don't think that it is much different this year.

[Craven Morehead]

Hamilton has to be considered to have the upper hand. I hope the quiet Finn can get up to speed quickly.

[sennafan24]

 

Here we go then.

 

From 2013-2015 I really didn't rate Bottas. He didn't put enough between himself and Massa to convince me of the hype. I felt the Williams car was the star in 2014, rather than his driving. However, he showed a marked improvement last year relative to Massa. This came when the Williams was not competitive, so it flew under the radar a bit. Plus, F1 had newer toys. Whereas Bottas was touted as the next big thing in 2014, it was Max, Sainz, etc who had taken that tag by 2016. Bottas became somewhat forgotten, and perhaps unfairly so. 

 

To Bottas's credit, his qualifying numbers against Massa were consistently impressive. That will serve him well in this formula. I can't see him doing much against Lewis in qualifying this weekend though. Lewis is a beast around Albert Park. If Bottas gets within a few tenths, I will consider it an impressive debut.

 

As for Ferrari and how their drivers factor in? Bring them on. In a straight fight, I'll take Lewis any day of the week over all 3 (Bottas, Vettel, Kimi)

Edited by sennafan24, 24 March 2017 - 07:24.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Hamilton will beat him as he's new to the team. But Bottas is very comparable to his predecessor, and not as as emotional. I expect Bottas to score good podiums and a few wins, but he will pose no threat to Hamilton for the title.

[sopa]

In qualifying I think Bottas will be quite close or at least reasonably close.

 

In races I suspect Bottas will be (somewhat) inconsistent.

 

Hamilton to come out on top, but outside factors can influence the overall points distribution against each other.

 

One more detail. As performance gaps have very likely closed down - Ferrari is considered a more serious contender than anyone in the past 3 years and RBR isn't far - it will play in Hamilton's favour. Because if he can win races, then Bottas can't cruise to 2nd on his off-day, but will be 3rd, 4th, or who knows where.

 

I'll give Bottas one thing - he is a safe pair of hands and probably brings the car home consistently. Which means Mercedes should still be a formidable force in the Constructors Championship, even if they don't have a superstar line-up of a Ricciardo-Verstappen.

[ForzaGTR]

My gut feeling is Merc have chosen a driver that will avoid the drama of another Ham Vs Nico battle, but I hope I am wrong.

[TomNokoe]

I'm not holding my breath. Expect it to be similar to the 4 years of Rosberg. Bottas will grow into a much better and more aggressive driver.

Edited by TomNokoe, 23 March 2017 - 20:11.

[F1Gmr]

Quite simply Lewis is an elite driver. As his teammate to be on par with him is an achievement in itself never mind beating him.

 

I hope Valtteri will give him competition but it's in the I'll believe it when i see it category. If he manages it I'll freely state he deserves to be considered a top racer driving one of the top cars in th sport.

[Piif]

First we HAVE to take into account that in the years to come Hamilton will probably be remembered as one of the best drivers ever to drive in F1. Consider how good Rosberg was and how incredibly hard it was for him to even occasionally beat Hamilton, let alone win the championship. And when he finally could do that, he retired immediately. I'm not dissing Rosbergs achievement at all, just stating the facts on how strong a teammate Hamilton can be, even to a world champion.

 

Now in comes Bottas with 3 seasons in F1 before this. I will consider it a huge accomplishment from him if he can beat Hamilton more than a few times during the season. And I believe Bottas to be a very good driver. In the early part of the season, Hamilton has a huge upper hand on his teammate but I hope Bottas can challenge him after a couple of races.

[hamilton10000]

I think Bottas may struggle a bit to start off the season, I'll be pretty stunned if he beats Lewis in a normal quali this weekend, and I think with other teams getting much closer the points gap between Lewis and Valtteri could end up much bigger than the gap between Nico and Lewis ever was. Though I do expect by mid season Valtteri will get fairly close to where Nico has been the last 3 years in terms of performance. 

 

Valtteri does have some good experience in F1 so I don't think he will completely flop against Lewis, but I just can't see him beating Lewis over a season unless he gets a huge amount of luck (probably needs even more than Nico had last year... ). If the car is capable of winning, which im sure it will be, then I would expect Valtteri to pick up 2-3 wins this year, but I expect Lewis will be looking more like 8-9 wins, so Lewis will win this rivalry comfortably this year.

 

I tend to just read this thread usually, but I think I may delve into the debate a bit more this year...

Edited by hamilton10000, 23 March 2017 - 20:42.

[GTA]

I believe this is going to be the most one-sided teammate battle across the entire field. Lewis is on a different planet.

[CountDooku]

Hmmm not sure this was the best effort at an opening post, and certainly isn't helped by the ehem.... plug for another person's blog.

I agree, there are a few thread starter specialists on the BB (especially in the Indy threads) who spend ages before each race just crafting the PERFECT thread opening.

The Lewis vs X is easily the 2nd most popular thread in RC and there's only one opportunity a year to open it. We are disappointed Paul.

[Jvr]

Valtteri has always had good qualifying skills. This is what he is remembered first bringing that dog of a car Williams was in 2013 third in the grid in Canada. Also when Williams got the Merc PU's he has always shown a good pace over one lap.

 

This I believe may be his first asset against Hamilton. Of course, Hamilton is a very good qualifier himself as well but if Valtteri can get ahead of Hamilton during qualifying, the races could turn into very interesting episodes indeed.

Edited by Jvr, 23 March 2017 - 20:53.

[Fondmetal]

[BuddyHolly]

I believe this is going to be the most one-sided teammate battle across the entire field. Lewis is on a different planet.

This^^

 

Lewis is head and shoulders above Bottas, this is going to be the most one-sided out of any of the teams this year imo and sadly could be very embarrassing for Valtteri.

I just hope another team is up there with them or this could be the shortest wdc ever ;) 

[Marklar]

I agree, there are a few thread starter specialists on the BB (especially in the Indy threads) who spend ages before each race just crafting the PERFECT thread opening.

The IndyCar people are nuts though
 

Valtteri has always had a good qualifying skills. This is what he is remembered first bringing that dog of a car Williams was in 2013 third in the grid in Canada. Also when Williams got the Merc PU's he has always shown a good pace over one lap.
 
This I believe may be his first asset against Hamilton. Of course, Hamilton is a very good qualifier himself as well but if Valtteri can get ahead of Hamilton during qualifying, the races could turn into very interesting episodes indeed.

The starts are supposed to be crazy this year, this alone will probably give him some chances. Then there is also the chance of reliability  (like last year) and then he will probably have a few tracks where he could have the upper hand over Hamilton (Sotschi and Suzuka comes to my mind).

 

Whether he is quick enough to stay ahead (in the sense of him not being too slow for the competition and therefore forcing the team to take actions rather than being overtaken, the later being very unlikely) is something we dont know though. If Mercedes stays dominant he has better chances than some believe.

[TomNokoe]

No no don't underestimate!!

Under promise and over deliver

UNDER BUDGET AND AHEAD OF SCHEDULE

[P123]

I don't see Bottas being that much different to Rosberg in terms of pace, so I'd be surprised if he were embarrassed, or this turned out to be the most one-sided driver contest on the grid.

[Dabash]

I think Bottas is fast but not Rosberg fast, this coupled with him settling in and feeling his way into the car might make it a bit one-sided towards Lewis. Bottas is no slouch but I will be looking towards the middle of the season and see how closer he gets and if possible how often he can out-qualify Lewis

 

over 20 qualifying sessions, I give it 14-6 in Lewis favour

[DrF]

Hamilton will beat him as he's new to the team. But Bottas is very comparable to his predecessor, and not as as emotional. I expect Bottas to score good podiums and a few wins, but he will pose no threat to Hamilton for the title.

Provided there's a title to be a threat to.

[Seanspeed]

I think we're going to find out Rosberg was better than many thought. 

 

But I also think that depends on how good Ferrari and Red Bull are.  If they can genuinely mix it up with Mercedes and tenths of a second start to really matter, differences in pace could be far more impactful.  

[sennafan24]

I agree, there are a few thread starter specialists on the BB (especially in the Indy threads) who spend ages before each race just crafting the PERFECT thread opening.

The Lewis vs X is easily the 2nd most popular thread in RC and there's only one opportunity a year to open it. We are disappointed Paul.

You should have showed him the way Count Conservative.

 

If anything, we should blame Marklar. He is the thread leader and news mogul. The onus was on him to get the ball rolling. 

[Fondmetal]

I fear this will be Heikki level of domination

[Marklar]

You should have showed him the way Count Conservative.

 

If anything, we should blame Marklar. He is the thread leader and news mogul. The onus was on him to get the ball rolling. 

I'm sorry. I failed. You guys need a new leader 

[Jvr]

I'm not going to quote all the people who have already written Valtteri and his chances against Hamilton off. Would take far too long and would be wasting my time.

 

Instead I will tell that I will openly root for him, wish him the best of luck and success and think that many, many people may be in for a surprise...

Edited by Jvr, 23 March 2017 - 21:25.

[Yamamoto]

'e won't last 'til Sunday.

[Vesuvius]

So many writing Bottas off, even if they haven't driven yet. well lets see how it goes, many could be in for surprise as Jvr above said.

[Razoola]

hmmm, Are these allowed now, the Kimi vs vettel thread is still locked ?

[Jovanotti]

Savage

[JonnyJ]

Sticking to what i said at the time he was announced as a Merc driver, that he is probably the closest match to Nico as Merc were ever going to get. I expect him to be quick in quali, able to lead from the front and to be found wanting a little in wheel to wheel combat.

 

Basing this on what I've seen of him so far in F1. In quali, he seemed to have a decent edge over Massa. If you're going to be challenging Lewis, its something you would expect. Can see him causing Lewis problems here if he does a better job setting the car up, or Lewis has an off day.

 

WRT his racing skills, what i always seemed to observe with Bottas was that, for the most part, he was clean, but pretty passive when defending. I was always pretty critical of him for allowing himself to be overtaken so easily. However, like Nico, when he did decide to get his elbows out, he made an arse of it. Think Kimi in Mexico.

 

It'll be tough for him, no doubt, coming into a new team is never easy and people shouldn't be too quick to write him off if he struggles early on, but i think he'll do fine.

 

Lewis is Lewis, no concerns there, he'll drive the arse off it and if we really do have a 3 team battle, then this is where he will really shine. Bring it on! 

[MasterOfCoin]

So many writing Bottas off, even if they haven't driven yet. well lets see how it goes, many could be in for surprise as Jvr above said.

Here is something you will never hear in the Alonso vs Vandoorne thread.....

[Mercstar]

I want to give Valtteri a fair shot at it before delivering the verdict, but on pure pace I don't think he'll be a consistent threat to Lewis.

 

He was pretty underwhelming last year vs Massa, so unless the right circumstances present themselves (ala Rosberg 2016), I struggle to see him overcoming Lewis. In that regard, I think he's a near enough like for like replacement for Nico, maybe slightly slower in ultimate pace, but with slightly better race-craft. 

 

One thing is for sure, by mid-season I won't need to double check the spelling every time I write Valtteri. 

Edited by Mercstar, 23 March 2017 - 22:12.

[quickndirty]

Bottas will not be fighting Hamilton. I guess he will be hard at work keeping the reds and the bulls behind him. Personally, I hope that at least one team can challenge Mercedes this year. Then it is good news that Bottas took over for Rosberg.

Edited by quickndirty, 23 March 2017 - 22:21.

[EndlessMotion]

I'm not expecting anything like Lewis vs Nico. Mostly because I don't think the Mercedes drivers will be fighting their own championship miles up the road of the chasing pack. If it turns out that Ferrari and Mercedes are closely matched I'd guess that would play into the hands of Lewis more than Valtteri in terms of their own their own battle.

 

The thing is we know all too well what to expect of Lewis. Valtteri, having only raced in a handful of Williams cars, still leaves us wondering where he lies in comparison to the established heavy weights in the sport. I'd expect him to match Nico's levels once he has his feet under the table. Anything more than that would be a surprise to me but let's face it, Nico was bloody quick. Close racing with other cars is where Lewis was head and shoulders above Nico IMO.

 

Since Ferrari started turning some heads during testing I think attention has very much diverted back to the competition for the first time since the V6 hybrid era for Mercedes.

[Risil]

There's nothing to discuss yet except our own prejudices about Bottas and Hamilton.

We'll reopen this thread when first practice at Melbourne is underway.

[GoldenColt]

I want to give a shout-out to the McLaren gearbox used at the 2012 Singapore Grand Prix.

[FrontWing]

I want to give a shout-out to the McLaren gearbox used at the 2012 Singapore Grand Prix.

2007, 2012, 2016... *shudders*

Edited by FrontWing, 24 March 2017 - 07:16.

[HillHamiltonButton]

Hamilton looks on top form, Bottas it's hard to tell if he's still adjusting to the car or just isn't feeling it this weekend or what, but 0.5s is a bigger gap than I expected (so far), I still think he will win races this year if Merc are as strong as they look to be, can he beat Lewis? not often is my honest opinion (and yes I am slightly biased as a Lewis fan, but I rate Bottas highly as well) 

[RandomG]

I can't help but feel we are seeing the rise of the new Rubens Barrichello

 

I seriously hope not though

[LuckyStrike1]

We are not. 

 

We are seeing the rise of the new Kovalainen. 

[CountDooku]

Guys this is one practice session, the first in a new team and the first season Bottas will race a high downforce car in anger.
Lewis may be faster but I doubt it'll reach Heikki levels.

Btw has any other driver had so many Finnish teammates? That's 3 for Lewis now.

[MJB5990]

Let's not forget Hamilton is massively strong in Melbourne. He's always one of the quickest straight out of the box aswell.

I think the gap will come down in qualifying. Anyone got the gaps between Lewis and Nico in Australia over the past 4 seasons.

[barzini]

Looks bad for Valtteri.. Well he never was a top guy.

 

He had his year in 2014 and he should've won a race that year but he didn't. During his Williams years he never showed talent like Alonso and Kimi in 2003, Lewis in 2007 ja Vettel in 2008. If Ferrari and RedBull can't catch Mercs it's going to be a boring season with Hamilton winning every race 

[barzini]

Btw has any other driver had so many Finnish teammates? That's 3 for Lewis now.

 

Heikki, Valtteri and...?

[Marklar]

Let's not forget Hamilton is massively strong in Melbourne. He's always one of the quickest straight out of the box aswell.

I think the gap will come down in qualifying. Anyone got the gaps between Lewis and Nico in Australia over the past 4 seasons.

 

2013: 0.436

2014: 0.364

2015: 0.594
2016: 0.360