4137 replies to this topic

[brokeracer]

Max is clearly winning the war (being the bigger picture, he gets closer to nr1 status if Dan does not have at least a few weekends where he really outshines Max cause Max is delivering solid shows.

 

I think even talking about 'number 2'ing the driver who has scored them 3 podiums in a row is a bit of a joke. Especially when there have been basically no comparable races, just trying to draw conclusions from little snippets of events. 

[CharlesWinstone]

I think even talking about 'number 2'ing the driver who has scored them 3 podiums in a row is a bit of a joke. Especially when there have been basically no comparable races, just trying to draw conclusions from little snippets of events.

Just like people stating that Alonso is better than Vandoorne. Like Dan vs. Max there is no way to tell yet😄

Edited by CharlesWinstone, 17 June 2017 - 08:28.

[zanquis]

I think even talking about 'number 2'ing the driver who has scored them 3 podiums in a row is a bit of a joke. Especially when there have been basically no comparable races, just trying to draw conclusions from little snippets of events. 

 

If the main reason a driver scores 3 podiums in a row is because of bad luck by either the engine, team planning, or a fellow driver which denied the other driver from 3 podiums in a row... A teamboss WILL see that. I am not saying that Ricciardo will be nr 2 driver, I believe he can turn it around good again. Just like people expected Massa to become a Nr 2 driver after Kimi won the title for Ferrari, and the season after that Massa stepped up and delivered solid results and got very close to the title himself. 

 

The problem is Ricciardo needs to show he is just as good on track a bit more then he is now. Podiums mean nothing, look at Kvyat in 2016, he just scored a podium in Shanghai, mostly thanks to his teammate having bad luck while driving in a much better position and was most likely up for a great second place finish (Does this sound familiar anyone?) 

[Risil]

I've removed some posts. Sebastian Vettel in 2014 is not the topic here.

[brokeracer]

If the main reason a driver scores 3 podiums in a row is because of bad luck by either the engine, team planning, or a fellow driver which denied the other driver from 3 podiums in a row... A teamboss WILL see that. I am not saying that Ricciardo will be nr 2 driver, I believe he can turn it around good again. Just like people expected Massa to become a Nr 2 driver after Kimi won the title for Ferrari, and the season after that Massa stepped up and delivered solid results and got very close to the title himself. 

 

The problem is Ricciardo needs to show he is just as good on track a bit more then he is now. Podiums mean nothing, look at Kvyat in 2016, he just scored a podium in Shanghai, mostly thanks to his teammate having bad luck while driving in a much better position and was most likely up for a great second place finish (Does this sound familiar anyone?) 

 

Not a comparable situation, short of Kvyat being on 1 podium. Ricciardo, despite the cries otherwise of Max's fans, earned the podium on merit at Monaco. He also did at Spain by keeping his nose clean, a podium the team may otherwise have not achieved (although he can probably thank Max here too).

 

You can speculate as much as you like, but he wouldn't be well clear in the title with a similar reliability record if he wasn't having a strong season. He just needs to build on that gap from here.

Edited by brokeracer, 17 June 2017 - 09:56.

[Augurk]

Boggles my mind people saying Ricciardo is having a strong season. He has been underwhelming from the start. 

[Requiem84]

Not a comparable situation, short of Kvyat being on 1 podium. Ricciardo, despite the cries otherwise of Max's fans, earned the podium on merit at Monaco. He also did at Spain by keeping his nose clean, a podium the team may otherwise have not achieved (although he can probably thank Max here too).

You can speculate as much as you like, but he wouldn't be well clear in the title with a similar reliability record if he wasn't having a strong season. He just needs to build on that gap from here.

In all cases you mentioned Ric needed external help to finish ahead.

The team in Monaco, Bottas in Spain and reliability in Canada.

Out of 7 races, Ric did not have 1 weekend where he consustently outperformed Max.

That is extremely worrying for him.

[markelov74]

Boggles my mind people saying Ricciardo is having a strong season. He has been underwhelming from the start. 

 

Agreed. I like Ricciardo, for me between 2014-2016 he was the best driver on the grid. This year he hasn't impressed me at all, I think Max is now quite comfortably ahead and he is really struggling at the moment against him.

[brokeracer]

In all cases you mentioned Ric needed external help to finish ahead.

The team in Monaco, Bottas in Spain and reliability in Canada.

Out of 7 races, Ric did not have 1 weekend where he consustently outperformed Max.

That is extremely worrying for him.

 

To be fair, we've hardly had any races at all that you could really say either way conclusively.

 

He's had races that he out qualified Max and he's had races he was more convincing overall (Monaco especially). He's also had races he kept his nose clean when Max hasn't.

 

Its a long season, so I suspect by the end the tally will be clear.

[RiccardoPatrese]

To be fair, we've hardly had any races at all that you could really say either way conclusively.

He's had races that he out qualified Max and he's had races he was more convincing overall (Monaco especially). He's also had races he kept his nose clean when Max hasn't.

Its a long season, so I suspect by the end the tally will be clear.

I must have missed those races where he outqualified Max. We're talking this season, right?

[BlackGold]

I must have missed those races where he outqualified Max. We're talking this season, right?

Bahrain, Russia.

[Ivanhoe]

To be fair, we've hardly had any races at all that you could really say either way conclusively.

He's had races that he out qualified Max and he's had races he was more convincing overall (Monaco especially). He's also had races he kept his nose clean when Max hasn't.

Its a long season, so I suspect by the end the tally will be clear.

That's a whole bunch of alternative facts. At Monaco Dan was more convincing overall? In what universe was that? If there was any race we couldn't compare their relative pace it was Monaco 👎

I'm curious. You really think Ricciardo was the stronger driver so far this season?

Edited by Ivanhoe, 17 June 2017 - 20:53.

[RiccardoPatrese]

Bahrain, Russia.

Outqualified Max in the race? I think you meant to say qualifying?

[BlackGold]

Outqualified Max in the race? I think you meant to say qualifying?

 

I just answered your question.

[A3]

Lost in translation.

[BlackGold]

Lost in translation.

Only if RiccardoPatrese thinks that brokeracer meant with "race" the actual race not the race weekend.

[RiccardoPatrese]

Only if RiccardoPatrese thinks that brokeracer meant with "race" the actual race not the race weekend.

A race is a race, not a raceweekend.

[BlackGold]

A race is a race, not a raceweekend.

You should have got the context quite easy

[EightGear]

A race is a race, not a raceweekend.

 

This is taking nitpicking to a whole new level.

[RiccardoPatrese]

You should have got the context quite easy

How? If you claim in Monaco Dan was more convincing overall, races where he kept his nose clean and Max not, you must be talking about the race, not the race weekend:

To be fair, we've hardly had any races at all that you could really say either way conclusively.

He's had races that he out qualified Max and he's had races he was more convincing overall (Monaco especially). He's also had races he kept his nose clean when Max hasn't.

Its a long season, so I suspect by the end the tally will be clear.

[LiJu914]

How?
 

 

Because Qualifying doesn´t happen in the actual race?

Edited by LiJu914, 17 June 2017 - 19:14.

[MastaKink]

Sooooooooo..Anyway do we think FI or Williams are going to get close to RB here thanks to S3 or is the Renault good enough that the normal 5/6 positions will be safe enough?.

 

I think we'll just have enough but it'll be close.

[Heyli]

How? If you claim in Monaco Dan was more convincing overall, races where he kept his nose clean and Max not, you must be talking about the race, not the race weekend:
 

You are quoting someone else...? Are you just looking at the first letter...?

[Freeze011]

Sooooooooo..Anyway do we think FI or Williams are going to get close to RB here thanks to S3 or is the Renault good enough that the normal 5/6 positions will be safe enough?.

 

I think we'll just have enough but it'll be close.

I am thinking 7/8 will be what they get here.

 

I think they are somewhat safe from the Williams (one of em "for sure" to quote the team mate of the one they are certainly safe from). But I think the FI will be too quick for them.
 

 

Also will Daniel keep it out of the wall (relax just a gentle ribbing as Max gets for Monaco ;P) in the practices?

Edited by Freeze011, 17 June 2017 - 20:31.

[MastaKink]

I am thinking 7/8 will be what they get here.

 

I think they are somewhat safe from the Williams (one of em "for sure" to quote the team mate of the one they are certainly safe from). But I think the FI will be too quick for them.
 

 

Also will Daniel keep it out of the wall (relax just a gentle ribbing as Max gets for Monaco ;P) in the practices?

 

Yeah fair point on Stroll. I think Massa could still be a threat but yeah it's going to be a tricky one.

 

Rib away about hitting the walls, it makes a nice change from the visor one to be honest so I'm almost enjoying it.   

 

Almost.

[RPM40]

Only if RiccardoPatrese thinks that brokeracer meant with "race" the actual race not the race weekend.

It's obvious in English but probably may read quite differently if you speak Dutch primarily. Language is hard like that.

[Kao18]

Yeah fair point on Stroll. I think Massa could still be a threat but yeah it's going to be a tricky one.

Rib away about hitting the walls, it makes a nice change from the visor one to be honest so I'm almost enjoying it.

Almost.

I must have missed it, was there something about a visor?

RB should be 5 & 6, anything less and I would be very disappointed. And no brake, battery or gearbox failures please..

Edited by Kao18, 17 June 2017 - 23:00.

[RPM40]

 

Rib away about hitting the walls, it makes a nice change from the visor one to be honest so I'm almost enjoying it.   

 

 

I enjoy the foggy visor 'attack'. Its kind of ironically funny. 

[MastaKink]

I must have missed it, was there something about a visor?

RB should be 5 & 6, anything less and I would be very disappointed. And no brake, battery or gearbox failures please..

 

I don't know, S3 is a big worry but I'd be happy to be wrong of course.

 

 

I enjoy the foggy visor 'attack'. Its kind of ironically funny. 

 

So did I in the aftermath of Brazil to be fair but when I searched the topic after my Renault comment the other day it had 25 results in this thread never mind last year's one or other threads in general. 

 

We need some new material so the wall one is a breath of fresh air for me.

[Ivanhoe]

Perez qualified in front of Dan last year, so I expect them to be close again.

[Freeze011]

Interestingly Max was fastest on the back straight of Montreal in the speed trap at qualifying (305.1) followed by Perez (304.3). Dan was doing 301 there, and in the race Perez couldnt get too close.

 

However, this straight is so much longer the cars will  be bouncing on the limiter in 8th gear so it will come down to a couple of things: who has the longer 8th gear and who can reach their Vmax the quickest and who has the most power to push their car through the enormous drag at those speeds. We know where the RBR loses out, the other two I am not sure of.

 

And intra-team which of the drivers is most comfortable with a low df, low drag setup. My feeling is that Max is a tad more comfortable with those setups, but it isnt clear cut.

[ForzaMerc87]

On the whole Verstappen has certainly looking more comfortable than Dan in 2017. However i think its unfortunate max lost points due to reliability. Because i know Dan will be up to speed fairly quickly. I expect withing 2-3 races the car would have sorted out the majority of balance issues and that is when dan is the most dangerous i.e. when he is comfortable with the car. Remember 2015, dan was struggling till Hungary then all of a sudden he switched on.

[AlcidioG]

Could the Dan fans please state which one of the upcoming races are Dan tracks and which aren't? Azerbaijan: Austria: Great Britain: Hungary: Belgium: Italy: Singapore: Malaysia: Japan: USA: Mexico: Brazil: Abu Dhabi:

Edited by AlcidioG, 18 June 2017 - 08:37.

[ForzaMerc87]

Could the Dan fans please state which one of the upcoming races are Dan tracks and which aren't? Azerbaijan: Austria: Great Britain: Hungary: Belgium: Italy: Singapore: Malaysia: Japan: USA: Mexico: Brazil: Abu Dhabi:

 

Baku - Above avg

Austria - Average/below avg

GB - Average/Below avg for Dan

Hungary - Strong for Dan

Belgium - Above avg

Italy - Above avg 

Singapore - Strong for dan

Malaysia - Above avg

Japan - Avg

Usa - Strong

Mexico - Above avg

Brazil - Below avg

Abu Dhabi - Strong

 

I think Brazil, Austria and GB is where Dan stuggles most Apart from that Canada is also on of his weaker tracks. The rest of the tracks are solid.

Edited by ForzaMerc87, 18 June 2017 - 08:46.

[RPM40]

Could the Dan fans please state which one of the upcoming races are Dan tracks and which aren't? Azerbaijan: Austria: Great Britain: Hungary: Belgium: Italy: Singapore: Malaysia: Japan: USA: Mexico: Brazil: Abu Dhabi:

 

 

Of those tracks, I would say Hungary, Singapore and USA stand out as 3 of his best. 

[Kao18]

On the whole Verstappen has certainly looking more comfortable than Dan in 2017. However i think its unfortunate max lost points due to reliability. Because i know Dan will be up to speed fairly quickly. I expect withing 2-3 races the car would have sorted out the majority of balance issues and that is when dan is the most dangerous i.e. when he is comfortable with the car. Remember 2015, dan was struggling till Hungary then all of a sudden he switched on.

I am not sure if it's due to being more comfortable. Max has said he likes this type of car so perhaps to some extend. I dont believe there are major balancing issues left though so I dont see Dan all of a sudden pick up speed because of this. Lets also not forget Dan has had a lot more milage recently compared to Max (especially since the 'new' Barcelona spec) so he should have a bit more experience with the car over full race distance with respect to how the car behaves with different fuel loads and tyre deg.

I just hope Max can finally finish a race again and there wont be any silly pit strategies.

Edited by Kao18, 18 June 2017 - 08:57.

[JIndia]

Could the Dan fans please state which one of the upcoming races are Dan tracks and which aren't? Azerbaijan: Austria: Great Britain: Hungary: Belgium: Italy: Singapore: Malaysia: Japan: USA: Mexico: Brazil: Abu Dhabi:

 

That's decided after the races 

[Risil]

She's gonna blow. Continue in the new thread here.