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John Barber?


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#1 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 20:22

With the recent passing of Ian Stewart, Tim Parnell and Mike Taylor, there are only 16 drivers who either started or attempted to qualify from a World Championship Grand Prix held in the 1950's (not including Indianapolis).

 

14 of them are accounted for in some form (The 15 are: Brooks, Moss, Gurney, Kessler, Cabral, McAlpine, Marr, Ecclestone, Kavanagh, Ashdown, Greene, Herrmann, da Silva Ramos, d'Orey, Milhoux)

 

Some of them aren't as in touch with the sport as others but Kavanagh was still alive late last year, McAlpine is too connected to pass away unnoticed and Milhoux has a family Facebook page dedicated to him.

 

I was in touch with Peter and June Ashdown directly for a long while, including putting Peter's photo archive up, but I've not heard from Peter in a while. 

 

But what about Barber? One Grand Prix - 1953 Argentine Grand Prix. We know for certain when John David Barber was born. We know that in 2010, a family member came here and posted that John was still alive and living in the Med still. But it all seems so gloriously vague - how a fish merchant made it into a Grand Prix car; how did he get into racing in 1951? What has Barber done in life to achieve a GP start and a life living on a boat in the Med?

 

Does anyone know?


Edited by Richard Jenkins, 09 April 2017 - 21:19.


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#2 Paul Taylor

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 20:56

The user who reported he was still alive in 2010 was "Sbar": http://forums.autosp...ser/65991-sbar/

 

Personally, if I had admin privileges, I would check the email address they signed up with and do an internet search for it, and also search for it via social media. That way you might be able to re-establish contact with whoever 'Sbar' was...



#3 Sharman

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 21:06

Fritz D'Orey is still with us or was in 2015 when I was in correspondence with him.

Edited by Sharman, 30 March 2017 - 16:04.


#4 cooper997

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 03:02

I don't have a lot, but John Barber is an entry at August 1951 Boreham. Also May 53 Crystal Palace and apparently he crashed a Cooper-Bristol T20 at a Castle Combe meeting. With the car rebuilt as the Golding Cooper 'NXH 586'. That last info was supplied to me as a brief note from the late Robert Barker.

 

Stephen



#5 Gabrci

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 17:13

As his family hasn't spoken to him for decades for some reason, I always thought the only chance we would ever have to find him is if someone, who happens to be anorak enough to know that there has been a mysterious Grand Prix driver by the name of John Barber (another one alongside the not at all mysterious John "Skip" Barber to be precise) happens to know him and happens to be a member of some online anorak society like this one. These chances are, let's face it, not particularly high. 

 

We all assume that "sbar" knows him or is even a family member but actually we don't know, he might just be a troll or might have googled his name and saw somewhere that "he is living in the Med". The way he posted that short sentence and was never seen again is as vague as the info we have on what has happened to our man. 

 

He would be almost 88 so he is more likely not to be with us anymore than to be with us, unfortunately. 

 

I hope I'm proven wrong and we find him and learn his story one day, but somehow I just don't see it happening. True, I tracked down the similarly mysterious Ricardo Londono-Bridge quite easily and exchanged some e-mails with him a couple of weeks before he was murdered and I also never expected Irwin to resurface either! 



#6 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 19:53

Just to self-fill in a bit more about JDB's career;

 

  • 1951 - started racing in hillclimbs and then raced a Cooper JAP Formula 3 car
  • 1952 - in a Cooper-Bristol, competed in Formula 3, winning at Snetterton. Had a big crash in 1952, but uninjured. Also raced in Formula Libre
  • 1953 - Argentine Grand Prix as we know. Raced in the Buenos Aires Libre race. Then, in the biggest clue of why he likely doesn't/didn't get involved with the sport: he was involved in the aftermath of a fatal accident racing at the Isle of Man and the Empire Trophy.
  • 1954 - nothing
  • 1955 - national and club racing, in a Jaguar. Raced in hillclimbs, including a class win at Rest-and-be-Thankful
  • 1956 - ditto 1955, bar the class win.
  • 1957 - competed in a couple of races in a Frazer Nash.

 

So it appears the incident in 1953, which was James Neilson's fatal crash may've led to a virtual racing retirement. From Motorsport Memorial:

 

To make the starting grid of the British Empire Trophy Neilson had to first compete in an an eight-lap heat race. He succeeded, and was able to qualify to the final. Sadly, Neilson's foray in this latter race would be tragically short. On the very first lap his Frazer Nash rushed up an earth wall and turned over near Cronk-e-Berry, a fast left-hander where Watterson Lane meets Johnny Watterson Avenue. Some observers claimed that the accident seemed to have been caused by a brake failure, and The Autocar magazine described that Neilson's Frazer Nash "skidded, hit the bank and threw the driver out".

Neilson was being closely followed by John D. Barber's dirty green Golding - Cooper Mk1 "Disco Volante", a unique single seater with an enveloping body work that rendered the nickname "flying saucer". Barber was unable to avoid the meleé, and got involved in the accident as well. Neilson was taken to the Douglas Hospital, located very close to the scene of the accident, but died at that clinic the following day due to head injuries. He was thirty-nine year old. Neilson's youngest daughter, Fiona, was only two months old when he died.

 

Bear in mind, too, that Neilson was also, like Barber, a fishmonger, could've had a profound effect on him? Of course, this is all ifs and but and maybes.


Edited by Richard Jenkins, 09 April 2017 - 19:54.


#7 Rupertlt1

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 19:55

See #16, Crystal Palace, 1953: https://revslib.stan...tem/sr640rv9948

 

RGDS RLT



#8 E1pix

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 21:00

Rather sad premise for a thread, Richard, but more than respected just the same.

 

Thank You.  :up:



#9 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 19:43

The search continues. From the BRDC:

 

From our records we lost contact with John in 1959 and then he was officially suspended from the Club which would have been for unpaid subs in 1964. We have very little information on John and unfortunately his Membership file has not stood the test of time. I have done a little searching around Ancestry.co.uk to try and see if anything turned up to which again there is very little.  I manged to track down his parents who were Stanley Swannell Barber and Gertrude Emma Chalcroft and I believe papers relating to the families fishmonger business are held in the London Metropolitan Archive. However apart from John’s birth I can find little else no record or marriage or death. The is one death did turn up for November 2014 in Weston Super Mare of a John David Barber but I cannot be 100% certain it is him (RJ Note: It's not - , I am hoping he is still on his boat in the Med



#10 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 19:49

Just to mention that at the moment, this has gone as far as it can. However on Stanley Swannell Barber:

 

Born 1889. He served in World War One and was an early member of the Royal Flying Corps. He was also a fishmonger and sailed out in the year of John's birth to America - one can only presume on a business deal, but we'll likely never know. Death date uncertain. Like father, like son?



#11 Geoff E

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:26

However on Stanley Swannell Barber:
 
Born 1889. He served in World War One and was an early member of the Royal Flying Corps. He was also a fishmonger and sailed out in the year of John's birth to America - one can only presume on a business deal, but we'll likely never know. Death date uncertain. Like father, like son?


He died in Barcelona in 1973 (GRO Deaths Abroad Index, FindMyPast)

EDIT: His wife's maiden name was Chalcraft, not Chalcroft.

Edited by Geoff E, 02 May 2017 - 07:28.


#12 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 20:39

Many thanks Geoff.

 

Very interesting that he died abroad. Could explain - perhaps - a bit more about Barber Jr's location. Shame deaths abroad stops at 2005.

 

Thanks for the correction re the mother's maiden name, that now makes sense. Clearly the Barber's moved around:

 

Barber Douglas Swannell 1922 — 1922 England & Wales Births 1837-2006 Paddington, London, England

Barber John David 1929 — 1929 England & Wales Births 1837-2006 Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, England

Barber Pamela S 1918 — 1918 England & Wales Births 1837-2006 Norwich, Norfolk, England


Edited by Richard Jenkins, 10 October 2018 - 20:49.


#13 Graham Gauld

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 16:25

Reference John Barber.:   During the Grand Prix Drivers Club AGM weekend in Riccione one of the side trips was to Gabbice Mare where a small piece of road was closed and a handful of locals turned up with some fascinating racing cars. One was a blue Cooper Bristol and I was sure it was the John Barber car. True enough it turned out to be the Cooper he hill climbed and raced in the 1950s. It is now owned by Giorgio Marchi who is a member of Squadra Corse Coccinella Rossa ( Red Ladybird). He confirmed it was the Barber car and when we took a closer look we found two old scrutineering stickers on the chassis frame from Prescott Hill Climb in the 1950s. Giorgio told me that he is looking forward to July as his entry of the car for the Silverstone Classic has been accepted and he will be racing it there next month. 

Picture of him in front of the cafe where behind the bush on the left is Emanuele Pirro reading Gazzetto dello Sport and Jo Ramirez in the GPDC cap.

 

 

https://s4.postimg.o...0604_101130.jpg



#14 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 18:35

Update - the will came through for Douglas Barber, John's brother. It provided contact details for John's nephew and I have tried that, somewhat in hope, to see if there's any answers.


Edited by Richard Jenkins, 01 December 2018 - 14:20.


#15 Rupertlt1

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 19:15

https://library.revs...208/default.jpg

 

https://library.revs...147/default.jpg

 

https://library.revs...024/default.jpg

 

https://library.revs...992/default.jpg

 

RGDS RLT

 

P.S. See also: https://library.revs...ion=p17257coll1


Edited by Rupertlt1, 16 October 2018 - 14:58.


#16 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 14:33

This reply (edited to protect names etc) has come back from John's nephew. From what it sounds like, not many people have heard from him since the 1970's.

 

As to whether he's still alive? I doubt we'll ever know.

 

His whereabouts? That is a mystery to me and the only person that could possibly help you is my Sister.

My Father and Mother moved to Galway, Ireland some time in the 50’s. Barber’s Of Billingsgate London took over the lease on the salmon fishery on the Corrib River in Galway.

After the War, my father returned to London from overseas where the Family/John offered him the job of running the salmon fishery in Galway and an Eel Fishery in Toombridge to the North. It seems that John worked for the family after he left school or soon thereafter.

From what I know is that in the late 60’s John sold or failed to renew the lease on the fishery and it was taken over by the Irish Government. However this left us in a real pickle and the rest is history…. My father never ever spoke to John again.

 
It does explain the fact that his BDRC subscription lapsed as after the debacle over the Fishery in Ireland rumour had it that he scarpered to South America to evade tax or so the story goes. 

 



#17 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 19:44

Thanks to supersleuth Dan Axelsson, we might have a lead.  :up:

 

He's found a record in a family tree on Ancestry of a John D Barber who was born 22/7/1929 and who died in 2013 in Menorca. Too many coincidences me thinks to NOT be the same man but I've contacted the person who put the family tree up to see what they can add.



#18 Paul Taylor

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Posted 06 December 2019 - 10:47

Thanks to supersleuth Dan Axelsson, we might have a lead.  :up:

 

He's found a record in a family tree on Ancestry of a John D Barber who was born 22/7/1929 and who died in 2013 in Menorca. Too many coincidences me thinks to NOT be the same man but I've contacted the person who put the family tree up to see what they can add.

 

Following with interest. 



#19 Dan Axelsson

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 17:01

Ok then, to finally clarify this matter:

 

John D Barber passed away in Palma de Mallorca, Mallorca, Spain, on February 4, 2015.



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#20 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 17:31

Excellent work Dan, well done and thanks for your efforts.

#21 E1pix

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 19:06

Fritz D'Orey is still with us or was in 2015 when I was in correspondence with him.

Sorry to go OT, but RIP, John (Sharman).



#22 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 21:15

Link to back Dan's death date - http://esdocs.com/doc/548347/obituario (page 5)



#23 Gabrci

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Posted 29 December 2019 - 15:31

Wow. Thanks and very well done for finding that out! On the other hand it's incredibly annoying that he just died so very recently and how close we were to finding him and possibly asking him about his career and later life. I do remember trying to find him in the Spanish phone book a decade or so ago without success. 

 

What next though? Do we have a way of finding his family who may still be on Mallorca? His daughter perhaps?