31 replies to this topic

[Gary C]

Cor, take a look at this

 

 

[B Squared]

Neat find Gary, thanks. This is the weekend that Mark Donohue "went to flight school" in the Porsche and his injuries opened the opportunity for George Follmer to join the Team Penske and secure the championship that year.

[JacnGille]

Neat find Gary, thanks. This is the weekend that Mark Donohue "went to flight school" in the Porsche and his injuries opened the opportunity for George Follmer to join the Team Penske and secure the championship that year.

I believe Mark initiated "The Road Atlanta Flying School" in pre-season testing.

[B Squared]

I believe Mark initiated "The Road Atlanta Flying School" in pre-season testing.

Correct you are! Thanks.

[2F-001]

Wasn't the Atlanta accident that put Mark out of the series - for a time, at least - and Follmer in, at a test after the Mosport opener… and therefore, technically, mid-season?

(Mark had finished second at Mosport, on the same lap as the winner despite a lengthy pitstop; everyone else was at least two laps down, which must have given everyone a pretty good idea of the potential of a 917-10/Donohue combo- if they hadn't already suspected.)

[D28]

Mark had his big accident a week prior to the Road Atlanta race; they wanted to do some testing between Mosport and the RA race, so rented the track just before. George Follmer stood in and won easily at RA, as both McLarens dropped out.

 

This is great footage, thanks Garry for posting it. I like that the film focuses on the pit preparation, not racing action; one gets really good closeup shots of the cars. He also covers a lot of the grid so we see Bill Wonder's 2-tone McLaren, discussed here last year, Roger McCaig's and others.

[2F-001]

Mark had an 'airborne' pre-season testing incident at Atlanta the following year with the 917-30.

And again '73s season-opener at Mosport.
For all his apparent success, Donohue had a rough time with those cars!

Edited by 2F-001, 05 April 2017 - 15:02.

[PCC]

Cor, take a look at this

Thank you for this! I just loved the Can-Am – the racing was rarely close, but the cars were simply awe-inspiring. To me, they still epitomize what a racing car should look like. And how cool are those drivers; Cevert chatting amiably, Revson charming the ladies, Oliver having a blasé yawn by the Shadow...

[PCC]

Mark had an 'airborne' pre-season testing incident at Atlanta the following year with the 917-30.

And again '73s season-opener at Mosport.
For all his apparent success, Donohue had a rough time with those cars!

I don't know about Atlanta '73, but I have no recollection of his becoming airborne at Mosport. He tangled with a backmarker at the end of the back straight, but the car stayed firmly on the ground (and finished the race with the help of copious amounts of duct tape).

[bill p]

[quote name="Gary C" post="7892558" timestamp="1491386329"]
Cor, take a look at this

Brilliant, Gary C

Thank you for posting
Bill P

Edited by bill p, 05 April 2017 - 15:18.

[D28]

I don't know about Atlanta '73, but I have no recollection of his becoming airborne at Mosport. He tangled with a backmarker at the end of the back straight, but the car stayed firmly on the ground (and finished the race with the help of copious amounts of duct tape).

Yes he clipped the back marker, went  off track and did a lot of damage to the nose. He soldiered on to finish 7 laps down. Mark didn't have such good luck with the 917s at Mosport.

[2F-001]

Both are mentioned in Unfair Advantage. The way the Mosport incident in described there, the car was launched after hitting the bank; and then... "Coming down, the nose rotated over until I thought I was going to auger in vertically. But I hit, bounced, and rebounded a few times, and just about everything stayed attached to the car." Then getting to the pits for a patch-up and completed the race, as you say. I wasn't there, so I have no idea if Mark's recollections were accurate, or if it all appeared different from outside.

He says it was Scheckter he was passing (for the lead)
Edit - when he clipped the backmarker, I mean - didn't mean to imply he'd tangled with Jody.

Edited by 2F-001, 05 April 2017 - 15:31.

[PCC]

Both are mentioned in Unfair Advantage. The way the Mosport incident in described there, the car was launched after hitting the bank; and then... "Coming down, the nose rotated over until I thought I was going to auger in vertically. But I hit, bounced, and rebounded a few times, and just about everything stayed attached to the car." Then getting to the pits for a patch-up and completed the race, as you say. I wasn't there, so I have no idea if Mark's recollections were accurate, or if it all appeared different from outside.

He says it was Scheckter he was passing (for the lead)
Edit - when he clipped the backmarker, I mean - didn't mean to imply he'd tangled with Jody.

Wow. I don't have a copy of Unfair Advantage, but I would never have guessed that the accident was that dramatic. I was watching from the second floor of the tower; the cars would briefly come into view on back straight before disappearing into corner eight. On this occasion, Mark was following a backmarker toward the end of the straight, and then there was a cloud of dust. A few moments later, the backmarker came out of corner nine and into ten alone, and some time after that Mark appeared, with bits of bodywork dragging from the front of the car as he pulled into the pits. It looked exactly like what D28 suggested – he clipped the backmarker, spun and damaged the nose.

 

And yes, Donohue/Penske had brutal luck at Mosport with the 917s. The car was utterly dominant in both '72 and '73, but won neither race.

Edited by PCC, 05 April 2017 - 15:51.

[2F-001]

Given his previous 917 experiences, the car probably didn't have to reach a great altitude (or pitch) for it to have felt like it was going into orbit (or likely to go end-over-end)!
The Atlanta testing incident (917-30) must have been unnerving, having been badly hurt there the year before.

I highly recommend the book; especially now there is a re-issued second edition - which I assume still avoids the high prices asked for a first ed.
Probably my favourite motorsport read.

Edited by 2F-001, 05 April 2017 - 16:01.

[PCC]

Given his previous 917 experiences, the car probably didn't have to reach a great altitude (or pitch) for it to have felt like it was going into orbit (or likely to go end-over-end)!
The Atlanta testing incident (917-30) must have been unnerving, having been badly hurt there the year before.

I highly recommend the book; especially now there is a re-issued second edition - which I assume still avoids the high prices asked for a first ed.
Probably my favourite motorsport read.

Thanks for that, I don't know how Unfair Advantage managed to stay off my bookshelf for so long, but obviously I need to correct the situation!

[D28]

Thanks for that, I don't know how Unfair Advantage managed to stay off my bookshelf for so long, but obviously I need to correct the situation!

Yes my above posts all came from information in the book. One of the better motor sports volumes I have read. Organized by car model which works very well.

[fbarrett]

Spotted an old friend, Grady Clay, at 1:49, changing plugs on a 917. A Denver Porsche mechanic, he worked on Siffert's Porsche/Audi crew at this and other Can-Am races.

 

Frank

[B Squared]

Yes my above posts all came from information in the book. One of the better motor sports volumes I have read. Organized by car model which works very well.

While I certainly understand the praise for the Unfair Advantage, I think it is also well served to remind those here of the acclaim that my dear friend, Michael Argetsinger's, Mark Donohue: Technical Excellence At Speed received from the motoring press when released. From a post I made on June 22, 2010, when the book won the International Automotive Media Competition (IAMC). It is well worth the read also:
 
https://www.amazon.c...d/dp/1935007025

I want to offer my congratulations to my friend Michael Argetsinger for winning the International Automotive Media Competition (IAMC) last evening in Dearborn, MI. for Mark Donohue: Technical Excellence At Speed. Well done!

We are now less than one month away from the release of Michael & David's next effort, Mark Donohue: His Life in Photographs. I'm sure all who bought the biography will be as anxious as I am to get their hands on the new book as well.

DAVID BULL PUBLISHING
June 22, 2010

Michael Argetsinger’s Mark Donohue Dominates
at International Automotive Media Awards

PHOENIX, Ariz.—David Bull Publishing is proud to announce that Michael Argetsinger’s Mark Donohue: Technical Excellence at Speed swept the awards in the 2009 International Automotive Media Competition (IAMC). Argetsinger’s book received a gold medal as best biography and was also cited as the year’s Best Book. Then, at the end of the ceremony, it was announced that it had won over all other entries from the automotive media—including books, magazines, newspapers, Internet, radio, and television—to be named “Best of 2009.” The awards were held on Monday, June 21, 2010 at the Automotive Hall of Fame in Dearborn, Michigan.

Mark Donohue: Technical Excellence at Speed is the first complete biography of Mark Donohue, who redefined what it meant to be a successful driver in the 1960s and 1970s. Driving for his like-minded team owner, Roger Penske, Donohue became a two-time champion in both the U.S. Road Racing Championship and the Trans-Am sedan series before scoring his greatest win at the 1972 Indianapolis 500. Following a brief retirement, Donohue returned to lead Penske Racing’s Formula One effort and died in 1975 after an accident at the Austrian Grand Prix.

Argetsinger spent years researching and writing the book, which draws upon interviews with Donohue’s family, friends, and teammates, as well as observations from such great drivers as Mario Andretti, George Follmer, David Hobbs, Parnelli Jones, and Sam Posey. He also listened to the original, unedited audio tapes dictated by Donohue for his own 1975 book, The Unfair Advantage. Mark’s close friend and team leader Roger Penske provided the book’s foreword.

This is the second multiple win for Argetsinger in the IAMC. In 2006 his first book, Walt Hansgen: His Life and the History of Post-War American Road Racing, was also named Best Book and Best Biography. “It’s a great honor to be recognized again,” says Argetsinger. “I think the awards are also a tribute to all of the people who helped me by contributing their time and memories of Mark Donohue.”

Edited by B Squared, 06 April 2017 - 10:37.

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

I saw Mark in the 917's at Mosport.  Re the 1973 incident, he evidently collided with the Lola T160/162/163 of one Jim Butcher.  I bring this up as in a contemporary race review...R&T or Autoweek, I believe and most likely, the latter..., there was a passage in the text which proclaimed that after Mark headed for the pits for repairs, '...Jim Soldier butchered on.'

[DCapps]

I am somewhere in the background given that I was there in the paddock for what seemed to be forever helping do interviews and taking photos for a journalist friend who was unwell for most of the weekend. Virtually without exception all the drivers and team members were friendly, open, and gracious in sharing a few moments with me. That is simply superb footage giving a pretty good idea of how I remember it being.

[Jack-the-Lad]

I was in the paddock that weekend, too, but only as a spectator. It was possible to do that back then....

[JacnGille]

And I was there too as I was an SCCA Tech Inspector at the time.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by DCapps
I am somewhere in the background given that I was there in the paddock for what seemed to be forever helping do interviews and taking photos for a journalist friend who was unwell for most of the weekend. Virtually without exception all the drivers and team members were friendly, open, and gracious in sharing a few moments with me. That is simply superb footage giving a pretty good idea of how I remember it being.

What a sensation!

To see the Can-Am at its height, in that transitional period between the 8+ litre monsters and the turbo monsters. To look in on the size of the components it took to transmit the awesome power and to arrest their speed when a corner loomed.

For those of us who merely saw F5000 and F1, something we'd love to have seen.




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 07 April 2017 - 13:53.

[2F-001]

Sadly, I never saw Can Am either (I didn't visit North America until Can Am was long gone); Interseries just wasn't the same - or so I imagine.

As a frivolous aside - and seeing as a number here were present at the '72 Atlanta event in film linked by Gary - I wonder which race meeting of the past had the most TNF contributors in attendance...

[SKL]

Great video-   never missed a Can-Am at Road America from '68 till the end, but never made it to Road Atlanta.

 

Have a prized possession of an original "Unfair Advantage" in pristine condition-   got it signed by David Donohue a few years ago.    I understand that David is now running the Exclusive program at Porsche-  keeping all those 918 owners happy!

[D28]

What a sensation!

To see the Can-Am at its height, in that transitional period between the 8+ litre monsters and the turbo monsters. To look in on the size of the components it took to transmit the awesome power and to arrest their speed when a corner loomed.

For those of us who merely saw F5000 and F1, something we'd love to have seen.




.

I agree, the sight and sound of these cars was sensational, and had to be seen to be appreciated. They were quicker than F1 cars, as lap times at Mosport and Watkins Glen attest; they never appeared on the same wk-end so a direct comparison was never quite possible.

 

Naysayers are quick to  point out that the ultimate thin rule book resulted in everything except close racing. Granted, other than year 1 total dominance by one team occurred, McLaren, Porsche and finally Shadow. But while spec racing can produce close racing, it can't always provide much in the way of excitement. Can-Am definitely could.

 

I consider myself extremely fortunate to have seen these cars at 3 different circuits. Nothing today comes close, even if F1 and WEC cars are quicker they don't look or sound like real racing machines; in my jaded opinion.

Edited by D28, 07 April 2017 - 16:59.

[PCC]

I agree, the sight and sound of these cars was sensational, and had to be seen to be appreciated. They were quicker than F1 cars, as lap times at Mosport and Watkins Glen attest; they never appeared on the same wk-end so a direct comparison was never quite possible.

 

Naysayers are quick to  point out that the ultimate thin rule book resulted in everything except close racing. Granted, other than year 1 total dominance by one team occurred, McLaren, Porsche and finally Shadow. But while spec racing can produce close racing, it can't always provide much in the way of excitement. Can-Am definitely could.

 

I consider myself extremely fortunate to have seen these cars at 3 different circuits. Nothing today comes close, even if F1 and WEC cars are quicker they don't look or sound like real racing machines; in my jaded opinion.

Agreed completely. That thin rule book made the McLaren M8s, the Chaparrals, the 917/30, even the Shadow Mk I (a pig, I know, but still an astonishing machine) possible. It led the un-tethered engineering imagination into wild and wonderful places. It didn't matter that the racing wasn't great - every car was a spectacle unto itself. And the sound...

[MCS]

Great video - well done, Gary C 

 

I watched Nine Days in Summer about half an hour or so ago (wondrous images from 1967) and this was highlighted, so there may actually be many more.

 

Here's hoping...!

 

Edited by MCS, 07 April 2017 - 18:44.

[2F-001]

Here is some front-of-the-field dicing from Riverside '67:

Edited by 2F-001, 07 April 2017 - 19:50.

[JacnGille]

 

Have a prized possession of an original "Unfair Advantage" in pristine condition-   got it signed by David Donohue a few years ago.

Same here.

[fbarrett]

Watched Can-Am races at Watkins Glen in '68, '69, and maybe '71. Today, almost 50 years later, the memories remain even more vivid than the photos I took. We didn't realize it back then, but it was truly a once-in-a-lifetime experience!

 

Frank

[E1pix]

Great video-   never missed a Can-Am at Road America from '68 till the end, but never made it to Road Atlanta.
 
Have a prized possession of an original "Unfair Advantage" in pristine condition-   got it signed by David Donohue a few years ago.    I understand that David is now running the Exclusive program at Porsche-  keeping all those 918 owners happy!

First the Rock Island GP and now this... we must have rubbed elbows in those days! We witnessed every Can-Am at RA from '67 on to '81 (CA-2 comparisons notwithstanding...).

Thanks Again to Brian Brown for unearthing the photo of Hulme barely missing a rabbit at Turn 6 at Road America from '69... complete with my brother and I in the background! The only other race we witnessed away from Elkhart Lake was a memorable one: Cevert's lone win, at Brainerd.

My entire childhood years were much about waiting for the next Can-Am. We knew it was special, what we didn't realize was its sad impermanence.