47 replies to this topic

[sabrejet]

Watching the Daytona 24 a while back I was struck by just how handsome those Cadillac DPi's look: my view was reinforced by yesterday's look at Long Beach qualifying.

 

And it got me to thinking about the appearance of modern race cars, especially in the light of recent comments about how ridiculous modern F1 cars look.

 

Fortunately all is not lost, and while there may be those who will prefer a D-Type, a D.50 or a 250F for their purity of form (and I wouldn't disagree) I think there are some modern contenders. This is my preliminary off-the-top-of-my-head list of a few that I think deserve praise for being lookers, even if they don't all have the results to back up the 'if it looks right..' philosophy:

 

2017 Cadillac DPi-V.R

2012 Corvette Grand-Am DP

2013 Audi R18 (a swan that turned into an ugly duckling)

2016 Toyota TS050 (an ugly duckling that became a swan)

2014 Renault Sport R.S. 01

 

Any takers?

 

 

 

[chunder27]

There are other race series for goodness sake!

[E1pix]

At the Club level, the Stohr WF1 D Sports Racer:
https://www.dauntles...ducts/stohr-wf1

[sabrejet]

There are other race series for goodness sake!

 

Five noms; four race series ain't a bad strike rate as a starter for ten.

 

So what have you got?

 

Edited by sabrejet, 08 April 2017 - 15:37.

[D28]

I really enjoyed the ALMS GT class and still miss it.

2 cars built by Pro Drive stand out:

Ferrari 550 Maranello and

Aston-Martin DB9R

[sabrejet]

I really enjoyed the ALMS GT class and still miss it.

2 cars built by Pro Drive stand out:

Ferrari 550 Maranello and

Aston-Martin DB9R

 

Can't disagree with those: on a more esoteric level I really do like John Oxborrow's OX-7 hill climber: a bit quirky and beautifully built:

 

[chunder27]

Race cars

 

Norma Hillclimb cars.

 

A few of the British hill guys top single seaters.

 

Some of the best built cars I have ever seen are drag racers, too numerous to mention.

 

A couple of realy nice Darrian and Mk2 Escort rally cars new build. Adn the Millington engines Protons.

Some of the better autograss cars have been great too, but they don't stay smart for long

[TennisUK]

Lola Aston LMP1 was rather nice looking. And it sounded even nicer.

I also liked the Lotus Evora GTE.

[Charlieman]

Miss Bacfire, a vintage special built in recent years, looks great.

 

http://anarchadia.bl...ss-bacfire.html

 

I'm not all that keen on many contemporary road sports cars but the GT3 racing versions from Bentley and Aston Martin are improvements. Maybe the road cars look too big in Britain's built-up environment.

[john aston]

Agree with Chunder re drag and hillclimb cars - the best thing about the only rule being there are no rules to speak of means a departure from the spec formula straitjacket where every car looks and sounds the same . I was at Harewood yesterday, and what diversity - from a 700bhp Gould to a Nissan Leaf via Elan Sprints , Mini Marcos  and a paddock full of single seaters - bike engined, V8s , turbo 4s and a huge range of aerodynamics. 

 

I talked to former Brabham pilot  Jimmy Johnstone as part  of my book project- he is 77 , drives the wheels off his race spec TR6 and first raced at Harewood at its first meeting in 1962 .   Wonderful . 

[chunder27]

I think any time you have a relatively free and open rule book regarding build you are going to get fabulous variety.

 

Within reason!!  As long as you do not get manufacturers on board at a big scale it's fine.

 

Some of the stuff away from circuit racing is both clever, pretty and actually very effective

[Stephen W]

Can't disagree with those: on a more esoteric level I really do like John Oxborrow's OX-7 hill climber: a bit quirky and beautifully built:

 

 

All John's cars are quirky.

 

I like the WEVs, the SPA-Judd sports car, the latest GR59 Cosworth V8 and a blast from the past Patsy Burt's McLaren M3A.

[Bob Riebe]

Well considering how the IMSA fans harped on how ugly the Grand Am prototypes were even when the IMSA cars looked like something that had been run over by a semi, beauty is pretty much in the prejudice of the beholder.

 

As on the street some magazine writers still harp on how ugly the Pacer was when some cars they slobber over have front fascias that look like the -- after -- in a crash test, we are doomed.

[Tom Glowacki]

Watching the Daytona 24 a while back I was struck by just how handsome those Cadillac DPi's look: my view was reinforced by yesterday's look at Long Beach qualifying.

 

And it got me to thinking about the appearance of modern race cars, especially in the light of recent comments about how ridiculous modern F1 cars look.

 

Fortunately all is not lost, and while there may be those who will prefer a D-Type, a D.50 or a 250F for their purity of form (and I wouldn't disagree) I think there are some modern contenders. This is my preliminary off-the-top-of-my-head list of a few that I think deserve praise for being lookers, even if they don't all have the results to back up the 'if it looks right..' philosophy:

 

2017 Cadillac DPi-V.R

2012 Corvette Grand-Am DP

2013 Audi R18 (a swan that turned into an ugly duckling)

2016 Toyota TS050 (an ugly duckling that became a swan)

2014 Renault Sport R.S. 01

 

Any takers?

This being The Nostalgia Forum, I will make the curmudgeon response and point out that the thread title is an oxymoron.

 

[Michael Ferner]

the thread title is an oxymoron.

Nah, not really. You can actually look for the biggest number in a sample of very small numbers. Just don't expect it to have many digits.

[sabrejet]

So how old is nostalgia then?

[E1pix]

FWIW, this thread beats not having any.

 

Anyone else notice the dwindling number of posts around here? Wonder why?

[king_crud]

I thought the Renault 3.5 of recent times looked good

[HairyScalextrix]

FWIW, this thread beats not having any.

Anyone else notice the dwindling number of posts around here? Wonder why?

I'm glad someone else felt that way too.

[DCapps]

So how old is nostalgia then?

 

Nostalgia is an emotion (or even a belief it seems in some cases), therefore, a second, a minute, an hour, a day, a week, a month, a year or what have you could all be considered as excellent possibilities for being considered nostalgia or for feeling nostalgic about.

[E1pix]

Perfectly stated.

[DCapps]

Perfectly stated.

 

Which is why I have utterly hated and detested the name of this forum from the very beginning.....

 

Just saying...

[king_crud]

Sometimes people here are nostalgic for previous incarnations of the nostalgia forum

[john aston]

Ah,  the days of dial up internet , Nokia phones and people who used phones to talk to each other...

 

Anyway ...mention of the Aston Martin DB9R. Despite my name , I struggle to 'get' Astons, especially in their more modern iterations. Much as I liked the  DB4, 5 and (to a degree )the DB6 I always considered the DBS series a bit overwrought and as for the moderns..The DB7 was a brilliant homage to the 4 and 5 but to be brutally honest every single one since looks like another DB7 tribute act and whilst I can identify an Ace from a Cobra at 100yards, ,the same with just about every Ferrari and an AC428 from a Mistrale  I really do struggle to tell one modern Aston from another . Is it just me ?          

[chunder27]

Agreed John.

 

Even to the point where Ford tried to get all their cars to look like Astons, further detracting form the look of the Aston range.

 

Then they built that God awful mini car thing.

 

They remind me of a millionaire from Birmingham or Sheffield who is self made, has a blonde trophy wife and drives a Hummer.

 

Lovely people, spend your money how you want, but a bit mutton dressed as lamb.

 

Let's face it the engine is two Ford V6's stuffed together, it's nothing special!!

[DogEarred]

I think you are so right.

 

AML seem to produce so many limited editions, versions, 'James Bond' one offs, 'bling ups'  & 'exclusives' that they have lost any panache & exclusivity.

 

They are physically big cars that do not rely on particularly intricate engineering.

 

They need to sell in greater numbers to survive though. (and there certainly is a custom base there)

 

They are still in a precarious position.

[chunder27]

They have done a superb job though you have to admit, for a start women love modern Astons, thy don't thijnk they are penis extensions like Porsches or Ferrari's and the like.

 

And the V8 I think is a great little sports GT.

 

But marketing wise they have done a fabulous job of convincing the world a 20 year old car is special.

 

Let's face it the 7 was a heavily drummed up XJS FFS

[Charlieman]

The thing about Aston Martin is that when it made the cars about which we feel fond, the cars never made enough money to make a business. Aston Martin stayed afloat as a spare parts manufacturer and hobby for enthusiast company investors. Now that it is a real business, we moan that it makes the wrong sort of cars...

[chunder27]

I don't think they make the wrong sort of cars, I simply think they are not as good as Clarkson and the media tell us they are. THey had to make sportier cars because of Jaguar, older Astons were fast, heavy and cruisy and rather old fashioned.

 

They looked great 15 years ago, but now look slightly aged, that's all. But the look has aged well.

 

They are still decent cars, but they are not as bespoke as some others. used to be full of Ford and Volvo running gear, a mashed up V12 engine, and awful gearbox. But this is the modern way, Alfa, Maserati and Ferrari do it, as do Lambo and Audi.

 

I think they were marketed brilliantly, very British, and very cleverly designed to be monogamous, a very, tricky thing to achieve in car design and a stroke of genius.

 

What sports car do women with style like?  E Types, old Ferrari's, modern Astons, little convertibles?

 

They do NOT like Lambo's, Zonda's, modern Ferrari's or the like. This is a massive generalisation but I hope you know what I mean in terms of classy motors, not just rich peoples posing pouches.

[D28]

The thread specified racing cars and I mentioned how I really liked the ALMS racing Astons circa 2005. They went wheel to wheel with the racing Corvettes and Ferraris of the day with some success. This Jeffrey Keeton photo is from the 2005 Petit Le Mans.

Edited by D28, 12 April 2017 - 13:39.

[chunder27]

They were great looking cars agreed, far better in that livery than the latterly overused Gulf livery.

[sabrejet]

The thread specified racing cars and I mentioned how I really liked the ALMS racing Astons circa 2005. They went wheel to wheel with the racing Corvettes and Ferraris of the day with some success. This Jeffrey Keeton photo is from the 2005 Petit Le Mans.

 

'tis not a thing of simple beauty, but an Aston it certainly is. And on the subject of the latest Aston GT3's, I think they also qualify as the best sounding!

[sabrejet]

Which is why I have utterly hated and detested the name of this forum from the very beginning.....

 

Just saying...

 Fully agree: it should be, "The Old Buffers Trying to Out-Obscure Each Other Forum". 

[JacnGille]

FWIW, this thread beats not having any.

 

Anyone else notice the dwindling number of posts around here? Wonder why?

Well...errrr...ummm...some of us have been around here long enough that there are no new questions or topics.  

[E1pix]

I meant "posters."

[kayemod]

What sports car do women with style like?  E Types, old Ferrari's, modern Astons, little convertibles?

 

They do NOT like Lambo's, Zonda's, modern Ferrari's or the like. This is a massive generalisation but I hope you know what I mean in terms of classy motors, not just rich peoples posing pouches.

 

One of the few American humourists who's actually amusing, P J O'Rourke summed up women's likes in cars perfectly. He was talking about mechanical devices that excite women sexually,

 

"The most effective of these has been found to be a Mercedes sports car".

 

Ahem, I can vouch for that, even at my pensionable age...

 

A good few years ago when I was thinking about buying my first one, I casually mentioned to my wife that I was going out for a test drive in a new car I was thinking of buying.

 

A not particularly interested, "What car would that be then?"

 

I replied "A Mercedes..."

 

She'd got her coat on before I could utter the "Benz".

Edited by kayemod, 12 April 2017 - 18:42.

[JacnGille]

One of the few American humourists who's actually amusing, P J O'Rourke summed up women's likes in cars perfectly. He was talking about mechanical devices that excite women sexually,

 

"The most effective of these has been found to be a Mercedes sports car".

 

Ahem, I can vouch for that, even at my pensionable age...

 

A good few years ago when I was thinking about buying my first one, I casually mentioned to my wife that I was going out for a test drive in a new car I was thinking of buying.

 

A not particularly interested, "What car would that be then?"

 

I replied "A Mercedes..."

 

She'd got her coat on before I could utter the "Benz".

You sure she wasn't going with you to make sure you didn't spend too much money????? 

[sabrejet]

It's never a good thing to generalise - especially where women are concerned. However I can only speak for my wife, who found the 86-90 Toyota Group C cars "sexy" (I'd agree) and dislikes anything red. I'm gradually bringing her round to classic Ferraris, but in most cases she will look straight through a GTO if there is a DB4 next to it. Again, I can't argue against that.

 

More recently she did like the look of Graeme Wight, jr's (Ogilvie-designed) Predator - even though it was red! Again, I cannot disagree (well I could, but you know how that goes).

 

Back on topic now maybe?

[chunder27]

Goodyears Predator was a fabulous looking car, driven quite brilliantly too, I was going to mention it earlier, but had no idea what it was called!!

 

There is a definite difference between a beautiful car and a valuable car though I think. If you went to the South of France or Monaco or watched something like Gumball or a cars and a coffee day, most of the those cars are not classy, some but not most.  Hard to define, but I think guys know what I mean.

 

It is the Clarkson syndrome with Kristen Scott Thomas!!

[Stephen W]

Goodyears Predator was a fabulous looking car, driven quite brilliantly too, I was going to mention it earlier, but had no idea what it was called!!

 

 

The GWR Predator was the big car wit ex-F1 power unit. The car that young Mr Goodyear drove was a Raptor - the 1600 Hayabusa powered version.

[sabrejet]

The GWR Predator was the big car wit ex-F1 power unit. The car that young Mr Goodyear drove was a Raptor - the 1600 Hayabusa powered version.

 

In fact Jos' Raptor has been 1340s and 1595 n/a at times. Other Raptors seems to float between 1585, 1595, 1596 and 1600!

[chunder27]

A stupidly quick car, was close to setting hill records and may have set some a couple of years ago, fabulous bit of kit and one hell of a driver, and a very attractive design to boot. AS are a lot of the top hillclimb cars made by companies, some of the home brew stuff leaves a lot to be desired though!!

[sabrejet]

Good excuse to post some Predator-Raptor comparison shots:

 

 

 

 

[king_crud]

What's with the upright section on the right front wing?

[Tim Murray]

It's the timing strut - it's there to break the timing beams at the start and finish lines. In the UK they're mandatory for all vehicles in sprints and hillclimbs. It makes it much easier for the startline crew to line the car up at the correct distance behind the timing beam.

[Charlieman]

In the UK they're mandatory for all vehicles in sprints and hillclimbs.

Mandatory or advisory?

 

It's never a good thing to generalise - especially where women are concerned. 

 

And it depends on age too. Women of my age are more likely to share my taste than men/women in their 20s. It's just the way that life experience works.

[Charlieman]

Formula 4 single seaters look right to me. They look like serious junior racing cars for the current racing era.

 

I don't think that they are necessarily the right first step up from karts. All drivers are different. From the perspective of a sponsor (not rich parent), junior racing cars should look like a scaled down F1 car with wings and all that. 

 

But I can't imagine putting up £150,000 up front for a season with the expectation that sales of the car and spares will cut my cost to £100,000. I don't believe that you can run that car in season, with back to back weekend races, without big mechanic and transportation costs.

 

In the next few years, when the first Formula 4 variants trickle into amateur sport, we'll learn more.

[Tim Murray]

Mandatory or advisory?

Mandatory. From last year's MSA Blue Book:

Timing struts - Where timing is actuated by a light beam, the vehicles will be fitted at the front with a vertical timing strut, minimum vertical height 254mm, the bottom of which shall be not less than 180mm and no more than 200mm from the ground. The strut will be in matt black on both sides, over its total area, which shall be not less than 254mm by 51mm. No other, or further forward, part of the vehicle may interrupt these dimensions or actuate the timing.

I can't currently find my 2017 Blue Book, but don't imagine this rule will have changed. It's been in place for many years.