112 replies to this topic

[Prost1997T]

https://www.motorspo...1-track-895791/

 

 

Most of the guardrails and some 5,000 tires will be removed and replaced by the new Tecpro barriers. These red-and-white barriers made of polyethene are filled with plastic, foam and sand. The FIA also wants to see the traditional gravel traps be replaced by portions of asphalt like what's seen at other F1 tracks. The infamous “Québec Wall” – also known as the ¨Wall of Champions”, the concrete wall that’s located at the exit of the last chicane – will see its angle modified, because the FIA found it was dangerous.

 

I'm surprised there are any gravel traps left to tarmac over, as far as I know that already happened at turns 1/2 and the "L'Epingle" hairpin. Since the barrier changes are due to "cars 3-5 seconds faster" than before, I'm curious as to whether the all time best lap of 1:12.275 (Ralf Schumacher, 2004 qualifying) gets beaten. I also thought it was a bit odd that CGV doesn't get classed as a street circuit considering it uses mostly public roads, but there you go.

[Kristian]

I literally did not realise there was any gravel left - already I thought they had asphalted the soul out of the place. 

 

Also the Wall of Champions was already ruined - how on earth was it dangerous? 

[OO7]

I've just watched an onboard of the 2016 Pole lap and there is no gravel anywhere, only tarmac or grass.  

[superden]

Meh, I'm not surprised.

Sanitise it, sanitise it all.

[Peat]

Right, so if the angle of the 'Wall of Champions' is deemed too dangerous, how on earth can are they going to justify running at Monaco, Singapore or Baku?

[Lotus53B]

<cynic>Such things only apply to folk with less money than others</cynic>

[ANF]

Hopefully the barriers will be the next generation of Tecpro barriers described in Auto Magazine: http://www.fia.com/n...er-breakthrough

"Having successfully recreated the accident [Sainz in Sochi] with a comparable level of deceleration peak, Piraccini soon discovered that to mitigate the lift-up tendency of the barrier during the rebound phase the main area to develop was not only the barrier configuration, but also the TecPro elements themselves. The solution was to give each element a lower centre of gravity, increased weight and a stronger internal structure, all of which would help to prevent the element from leaving the ground. To achieve this, Piraccini worked with TecPro to develop the internal structure of the element. The new solution is heavier than before meaning that the element’s centre of gravity is now lower. At the same time, the new layout increases the strength of the full internal structure, while improving the element’s anti-penetration capability."

[Marklar]

Right, so if the angle of the 'Wall of Champions' is deemed too dangerous, how on earth can are they going to justify running at Monaco, Singapore or Baku?

For the first two I assume the slower speeds.

For the later: $$

[SenorSjon]

Wall of Champions already lost a lot of its soul due to the run off in the chicane. But yeah, keep asking wat people want and then sanitize tracks further.   

[Clatter]

For the first two I assume the slower speeds.

For the later: $$

Are they that much slower in the accident zones? They may go quicker down the straights, but they have slowed down dramatically for the chicane before the wall. Unnecessary change in my view.

[ANF]

Current config.

[Clatter]

Current config.

More than sanitised enough. They are determined to remove the challenge of driving these circuits.

[cheesy poofs]

I'll head out to the circuit today to see the changes. I'll come back with a report and pics.

[ANF]

More details about the changes, en français: http://ici.radio-can...neuve-chantiers

Wall of Champions:

« Enfin, aux virages 13 et 14, on ne peut pas agrandir la zone de dégagement, car il n'y a pas la place à l'arrière, mais on réenligne complètement le "mur des champions" qui avait un mauvais angle, ce qui pouvait être dangereux pour les pilotes. Les pneus restent en place. Et on va asphalter l'intérieur de la chicane. »

Gravel traps (or grass):

« Dans les virages 7 et 8, on avait déjà asphalté une partie du bac à graviers, mais là, la FIA nous demande d'asphalter complètement la zone de dégagement, pour donner une chance aux pilotes qui font un tout droit d'avoir plus d'adhérence et de reprendre la piste. »

He says turns 7 and 8 but maybe he means 8 and 9?

[Kristian]

The whole point of it being called the "Wall of Champions" is because it was famous for catching out even the best drivers (1999 being the most notable, but until a few years ago at least one driver would come a cropper each year)

 

Now its just like any other boring chicane. 

Edited by Kristian, 20 April 2017 - 11:24.

[Retrofly]

Why dont they just race on a ****ing square of tarmac and with a chalk line drawn across it.

[OO7]

I wonder how they plan to change the impact angle.  If it involves moving/angling the armco or wall behind the tyres, it may still be possible to leave a row techpro where the tyres are currently placed, resulting in a deeper barrier.  Using techpro mitigates the chances of a car 'digging in', as can happen with steep impact angles.

[superden]

Another corner sanitised ... check.
F1 emasculated a little more ... check.
Any real challenge minimised ... check.

Marvellous, well done to all concerned.

[ArrowsLivery]

FIA needs to go away already.

[johnmhinds]

is there an example of a corner that was changed to suit the FIA's regulations that resulted in a corner that was more challenging for the drivers?

[Stephane]

la FIA nous demande d'asphalter complètement la zone de dégagement, pour donner une chance aux pilotes qui font un tout droit d'avoir plus d'adhérence et de reprendre la piste. »
 

 

Safety first ?

[ANF]

is there an example of a corner that was changed to suit the FIA's regulations that resulted in a corner that was more challenging for the drivers?

Tamburello?

[Ickx]

Why dont they just race on a ****ing square of tarmac and with a chalk line drawn across it.

The line could get slippery, I can't see your solution as acceptable.

[BillBald]

This was inevitable due to the faster cars this year, and widely predicted.

 

Sooner or later the FIA will do an about-turn and reduce downforce, but the tracks will never be the same again.

[DS27]

In some ways the tracks with history, atmosphere, a challenging layout, and yes even a bit of danger are as important to me as the teams and drivers. The modern races on large patches of asphalt and empty stands hold little or no interest.

 

The loss and ruination of the circuits is perhaps the saddest of all the things wrong with top level motorsport.

[Nonesuch]

Why dont they just race on a ****ing square of tarmac and with a chalk line drawn across it.

 

Because the lines are too difficult for the FIA race director to police.

 

And Vettel would thus win all the time.

 

For the later: $$

 

Every time I see an onboard of Baku I am amazed Turn 15 was approved.

[SenorSjon]

Why dont they just race on a ****ing square of tarmac and with a chalk line drawn across it.

 

It is called Paul Ricard and from next year on, it is on the calendar. 

 

is there an example of a corner that was changed to suit the FIA's regulations that resulted in a corner that was more challenging for the drivers?

 

China pit entry was challenging (ask Lewis...  ), but even that gravel trap is gone now.

[Retrofly]

It is called Paul Ricard and from next year on, it is on the calendar. 

 

 

Oh god is that the circuit with the blue and red lines painted everywhere? Makes me want to vomit!

[SenorSjon]

Yup, it is the psychedelic track. Signed a deal just before its owner was ousted from F1...

[D28]

Organizers had signed a long term contract with Bernie a few years ago, a deal that specified upgrades to some facilities at the pit complex. Bernie even rumbled about a "contract being a contract" when this work appeared somewhat behind.

This upgrade is completely new and is demanded for this year's race. I wonder if the organizers care to repeat his remark; very unlikely that FOM would listen to them if they did. The Canadian GP benefits from funding from 3 levels of government, but the idea of a long term contract was to have costs clearly budgeted.  This would knock such plans askew.

[Kristian]

Oh god is that the circuit with the blue and red lines painted everywhere? Makes me want to vomit!

 

Yeah... that race should coming with a warning for epileptics. 

[cheesy poofs]

Just got back from the track. There is definitely extensive work beeing done at the track this year. Walls have been moved back, tyre walls have all been removed. The tarmac / layout has not been changed.

Just a major reprofiling of the tyre walls / walls & catch fencing. Nothing to disrupt the flow and excitement of this old time race track.

I'll post pics soon

[PayasYouRace]

More details about the changes, en français: http://ici.radio-can...neuve-chantiersWall of Champions:« Enfin, aux virages 13 et 14, on ne peut pas agrandir la zone de dégagement, car il n'y a pas la place à l'arrière, mais on réenligne complètement le "mur des champions" qui avait un mauvais angle, ce qui pouvait être dangereux pour les pilotes. Les pneus restent en place. Et on va asphalter l'intérieur de la chicane. »Gravel traps (or grass):« Dans les virages 7 et 8, on avait déjà asphalté une partie du bac à graviers, mais là, la FIA nous demande d'asphalter complètement la zone de dégagement, pour donner une chance aux pilotes qui font un tout droit d'avoir plus d'adhérence et de reprendre la piste. »He says turns 7 and 8 but maybe he means 8 and 9?

I can't speak French (so I let the funky music do the talking).

Anyone care to translate?

[FLB]

 

Dans les virages 7 et 8, on avait déjà asphalté une partie du bac à graviers, mais là, la FIA nous demande d'asphalter complètement la zone de dégagement, pour donner une chance aux pilotes qui font un tout droit d'avoir plus d'adhérence et de reprendre la piste.

"In turns 7 and 8, we had already paved part of the gravel trap, but now, the FIA is asking us to completely pave the run-off area, to give the drivers who go straight (i.e. miss the corner) more grip and (a chance to get) back on track"

 

In other words, this isn't a safety thing; it's to make it more forgiving (i.e. easier)... at the request of the FIA.

Edited by FLB, 20 April 2017 - 18:33.

[AustinF1]

Because the lines are too difficult for the FIA race director to police.

 

And Vettel would thus win all the time.

 

 

Every time I see an onboard of Baku I am amazed Turn 15 was approved.

Seriously, that **** (with iirc armco bolted to a stone wall ffs) gets approved, but the WoC needs fixing? What in the actual f***?

[cheesy poofs]

[https://goo.gl/photo...6SLVnPqZvyEqPi6

https://goo.gl/photo...66qNnUvX4zMzax9

https://goo.gl/photo...o6384RRf87N6dZ8

https://goo.gl/photo...idW693MD5Lhnkv5

https://goo.gl/photo...uoEVwKhMvbByTU6

https://goo.gl/photo...fyW5y1YXXMkKfC9

https://goo.gl/photo...7dRj9zS75PEKA4A

https://goo.gl/photo...dUvtXHwnCiaKrW8

https://goo.gl/photo...x2fkanxLAwj4LZ8

Edited by cheesy poofs, 20 April 2017 - 18:49.

[917k]

I can remember Mario Andretti commenting on what he would change about F1 - maybe circa 2000 or so - and he said get rid of the gravel as it tended to keep perfectly functional cars out of the race unnecessarily. He thought the punishment for running off into gravel [retirement] was too great and removed too many cars from the race.

[f1paul]

Why dont they just race on a ****ing square of tarmac and with a chalk line drawn across it.

That's far too dangerous! 

[BRG]

Seriously, that **** (with iirc armco bolted to a stone wall ffs) gets approved, but the WoC needs fixing? What in the actual f***?

In other news, the FIA have asked for the castle at Baku to be moved back. 

[Kalmake]

I can remember Mario Andretti commenting on what he would change about F1 - maybe circa 2000 or so - and he said get rid of the gravel as it tended to keep perfectly functional cars out of the race unnecessarily. He thought the punishment for running off into gravel [retirement] was too great and removed too many cars from the race.

I used to agree with that, but now I miss the drama of one small mistake costing the race.

[Alfisti]

In some ways the tracks with history, atmosphere, a challenging layout, and yes even a bit of danger are as important to me as the teams and drivers. The modern races on large patches of asphalt and empty stands hold little or no interest.

 

The loss and ruination of the circuits is perhaps the saddest of all the things wrong with top level motorsport.

 

Which is why Bathurst, especially the 1,000Km event, is so good to watch. The track and track alone bites people, every year, without fail. 

[ANF]

I can't speak French (so I let the funky music do the talking).

Anyone care to translate?

"Finally, in turns 13 and 14, the runoff area can't be made bigger because there's no room behind it, but the "Wall of Champions", which had a bad angle, will be completely realigned. The tyres will remain. And we'll asphalt the inside of the chicane."

Maybe?

[PayasYouRace]

https://goo.gl/photo...6SLVnPqZvyEqPi6

Safe to say there's still going to be a wall of champions for drivers to hit.

The sky isn't falling my chicken littles.

[OO7]

I don't understand what exactly it is that they intend to tarmac over.  All the gravel had been pretty much removed already, unless they are going after the grass as well now?

[cheesy poofs]

Safe to say there's still going to be a wall of champions for drivers to hit.
The sky isn't falling my chicken littles.

Exactly!

[ANF]

https://goo.gl/photo...6SLVnPqZvyEqPi6

https://goo.gl/photo...66qNnUvX4zMzax9

That's still the old angle, isn't it? I figure they want to straighten that bit.
 

https://goo.gl/photo...7dRj9zS75PEKA4A

And that's the exit of T5 looking backwards where they are making room for the Safer barrier?
 

https://goo.gl/photo...dUvtXHwnCiaKrW8

Now what the hell is that?

[GoldenColt]

Why dont they just race on a ****ing square of tarmac and with a chalk line drawn across it.

 

The chalk line get's slippery if it rains.

[cheesy poofs]

I don't understand what exactly it is that they intend to tarmac over.  All the gravel had been pretty much removed already, unless they are going after the grass as well now?

You're right, there is little gravel left on the race track. The only place that there was any left was in T8. The inside guardrail on the back straight has beeen removed and looks set to be replaced by a wall.

[Turboflame]

Tarmac runoffs on such a track are actually more dangerous than gravel, because of cars being able to come back on track suddenly after a small mistake (in the contrast to more conventional modern tracks less margin for error is allowed), with less time for other drivers to react when a car suddenly reappears on track.

[cheesy poofs]

That's still the old angle, isn't it? I figure they want to straighten that bit. And that's the exit of T5 looking backwards where they are making room for the Safer barrier? Now what the hell is that?

For the "wall of champions", they added an angle in the wall. You can clearly see on the geound where they actually laid the new concrete to make the wall. I assume techpro barriers will be installed there.

As for T5, yes that's looking back from T6. What they've done is keep the existing wall that used to line the track and lay down concrete to install a safer barrier. The existing wall was always there. A guard rail was added in place of tyres a few years ago after a terrifying crash in a Formula Mazda support race ( look it up on YouTube)

That last pic is the inside of the back straight. A guardrail used to line the track in that area and me thinks a wall will now line the track there.