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supercars lunches super 5000 series


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#51 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 07:06

has that anything to do with the Prodrive team owned by Dave Richards?

 

Previously, yes.

 

Not anymore, it was purchased by local racing enthusiast (ex- and current gentleman racers)/business owners.


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 01 November 2017 - 07:07.


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#52 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 07:08

I don't really follow what's going on...I thought the two series had merged and they were going to use the Supercars version...

 

But the Swift based FT5000 is still running after all (it's V8 sounds way better incidentally)

 

Well the Supercars version Super5000 looks nearly undrivable  :eek:  , while the FT5000 version seems to be a gem -- well sorted machine, so I hope they reconsider that!  :lol:



#53 messy

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 07:58

I haven't really been following this as it's developed really, the Thunder 5000 etc, so I'm not exactly full of knowledge about it.

 

But....can I just say, that looking ****ing wonderful. I love it. What a good idea.



#54 GazChed

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 13:52

What's the latest news regarding this formula ?

#55 Ivanhoe

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 13:56

https://www.speedcaf...plans-continue/

#56 HistoryFan

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 17:23

I don't think that series will ever happen. Or will just have 10 cars or something like that and will be folded after 3 years or something like that.

As nice such a series would be.



#57 statman

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 15:15

S5000 makes public debut

 

The all-new race car is based around a carbon-fibre monocoque built by French firm Onroak-Ligier and powered by a five litre 560hp V8 Ford Coyote engine that is fitted to a Holinger six-speed sequential transaxle. The drivetrain, which will power 17 inch rear wheels, is an updated version of the system originally used by the Formula Thunder 5000 prototype. The car carries full 2018 FIA safety certification.

 

S5000 Car Specification

 

CHASSIS

Carbon composite monocoque – 2018 FIA compliant, produced by Onroak (France)

Dimensions
Length 4900mm
Width: 1950mm
Wheelbase: 3000mm

Suspension
Double wishbone, front and rear
Pushrod adjustable ride, front/rear
Front/rear adjustable anti-roll bars
JRi three-way adjustable shock absorbers

Steering
Rack and pinion
Collapsible steering column

Brakes
4 piston monobloc calipers
Vented steel rotors

FIA Approvals
2018 FIA front crash structure
2018 FIA rear crash structure
2018 FIA cockpit halo
2018 FIA side and front intrusion panels
2018 FIA-spec 6-point harness
2018 FIA-spec 6Kj wheel tethers
2018 FIA headrest
2018 FIA-spec extractable seat

ENGINE

Fuel-injected 5.0-litre quad-cam V8 Ford Coyote ‘Aluminator’
Prepared to Super5000 spec by InnoV8 (Brisbane)
Max horsepower: 560hp
Max torque: 460 ft-lbs
Max rpm: 8000rpm
Electronics/dash: MoTeC

TRANSMISSION

Holinger MFT six-speed sequential transaxle, with pneumatic paddle change, includes bespoke (front) drop gear set for lower engine height and thus lower car centre of gravity

Holinger-designed bell-housing with integral oil tank.

Gearbox/bellhousing include suspension pick-up points and shock-absorber mounts

WHEELS & TYRES

15 x 17 inch rear, 15 x 12 inch front wheels
Rear tyre: 680/405-15
Front tyre: 570/290-15

CHASSIS INTEGRATION/DESIGN/ENGINEERING

Developed by ARG. Implementation by Borland Racing, Melbourne



#58 maximilian

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 15:29

The hell?  That doesn't sound like a V8 much, does it?... and why did they have to make it so ugly-boxy? 



#59 FredrikB

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 16:16

The hell?  That doesn't sound like a V8 much, does it?... and why did they have to make it so ugly-boxy? 

 

Sounds pretty much like the cars i heard at Laguna Seca this august. Maybe in need of some fine tuning though

Regarding the looks, i am sorry, but i have to agree you. Maybe the design is not the final one..

 

Formula 5000 @ Laguna Seca (the hair on my arms stood up when i heard them on site)



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#60 maximilian

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 17:22

The 5000s look 5000 times better!!  No idea why they dropped that previous concept where they emulate this look.



#61 krapmeister

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 22:17

Yeah I was looking forward to this series especially after seeing the original Formula Thunder car with the high airbox.

The actual car though is pretty underwhelming tbh - could be any spec lower formula open wheeler chassis...

#62 Widefoot2

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 05:11

The exterior engine sounds are great, imagine 20 cars going at once!  But cockpit audio should be improved, all we're getting is the transmission - they need a mic by the exhaust too.

 

Visuals - yeah, bit of an ugly duckling.  Doesn't have the grace of a "pretty" car, but perhaps it's to save costs in manufacture.  If that brings more teams in then so be it.

 

One concern is it looks a bit slow in the street circuit layout.  I'm just too spoiled by F1, maybe more suspension tuning and a better driver will show it off more effectively.



#63 ClubmanGT

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 22:10

The exterior engine sounds are great, imagine 20 cars going at once!  But cockpit audio should be improved, all we're getting is the transmission - they need a mic by the exhaust too.

 

Visuals - yeah, bit of an ugly duckling.  Doesn't have the grace of a "pretty" car, but perhaps it's to save costs in manufacture.  If that brings more teams in then so be it.

 

One concern is it looks a bit slow in the street circuit layout.  I'm just too spoiled by F1, maybe more suspension tuning and a better driver will show it off more effectively.

 

Looked cumbersome tbh, although IDK whether that was Murph staying within his limits. 

 

The Formula Thunder cars seemed to have much sharper turn-in. 



#64 Ben1445

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 16:15

 

Looks like they're getting ready to start building them... any news on who's actually going to be (or wants to be) competing? 



#65 FPV GTHO

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 12:21

Some news over the past month

https://au.motorspor...365019/?nrt=137

https://au.motorspor...e-test/4372620/

Definitely a fan of the smaller front tyres

#66 paulb

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 16:09

^Thanks for the updates. Too bad they do not appear to be going with higher airboxes. It would have been a unique, differentiating visual element and a nod to the original F5000 series.



#67 PayasYouRace

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 16:20

I like that No.5 Valvoline car. Takes me back to Robby Gordon and Gil de Ferran in their Walker Racing days in CART.



#68 FPV GTHO

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 06:16

I think that's still this car

https://au.motorspor...363418/?nrt=137

#69 FPV GTHO

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 04:29

https://au.motorspor...upport/4504820/

Could be on the support card alongside TCR for the Melbourne GP.

I think organisers could be waiting to see the series debut first, as well as a clearer picture over F4 for next year.

#70 maximilian

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 04:13

Pretty much lost enthusiasm for this series once the decided to go with the bloated Formula 3 looking car.  Has anybody actually signed up to race it yet?



#71 HistoryFan

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 06:40

I don't see the series starts in September as scheduled. No drivers and teams confirmed yet...



#72 FPV GTHO

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 08:42

https://www.carsales...0-debut-119943/

Organisers looking to have a high profile driver available when the cars debut, with Villeneuve and Button being suggested.

#73 maximilian

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 11:16

Villeneuve?  Oh crap.  He'd run 2 races and then throw the towel, like he's done a few times with other series now.

 

If they want someone high-profile, put Mark Webber in the car.  Or at least Ryan Briscoe.



#74 krapmeister

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 11:44

The only problem with getting Webber is that he is done with racing - he doesn't even hold a competition licence anymore...



#75 Jazza

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 13:06

For the first race they could just make it a novelty event with the current supercar drivers, or at least the endurance co-drivers/retired drivers. Of course it would have to become a proper series for the next race with dedicated drivers (and maybe some guys who can’t get a full time supercar drive may stick with it), but at least it would grab some attention to start with to get the profile up.

There are plenty of local names that would grab attention. Skaife, Lowndes, Tander, etc. That has to be better than some Canadian who hasn’t won a race in over 2 decades.

#76 HistoryFan

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 13:15

would be nice to see Villeneuve there but I doubt it.



#77 maximilian

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 13:50

The only problem with getting Webber is that he is done with racing - he doesn't even hold a competition licence anymore...

 

Yeah, that occurred to me, too... and might not be in the best of racing shape anymore, accordingly.

 

Why not Alonso?  :lol:



#78 FLB

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 13:56

https://www.carsales...0-debut-119943/

Organisers looking to have a high profile driver available when the cars debut, with Villeneuve and Button being suggested.

Not ex-F1, but I wonder if that might be a place for Simona de Silvestro? She was pretty good in big single-setaers, horrid in V8 Supercars and reportedly has a good relationship with her high-profile sponsor Harvey Norman?



#79 maximilian

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 14:03

Not ex-F1, but I wonder if that might be a place for Simona de Silvestro? She was pretty good in big single-setaers, horrid in V8 Supercars and reportedly has a good relationship with her high-profile sponsor Harvey Norman?

 

Love that idea... she did so well in Formula-type cars, and has been bleeding profusely when racing under a roof... make it so!  :up:



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#80 FPV GTHO

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 14:56

For the first race they could just make it a novelty event with the current supercar drivers, or at least the endurance co-drivers/retired drivers. Of course it would have to become a proper series for the next race with dedicated drivers (and maybe some guys who can’t get a full time supercar drive may stick with it), but at least it would grab some attention to start with to get the profile up.

There are plenty of local names that would grab attention. Skaife, Lowndes, Tander, etc. That has to be better than some Canadian who hasn’t won a race in over 2 decades.

 


Its getting promoted by a rival group to Supercars, so i would imagine there would be some roadblocks there. I think half the grid will probably be made up of those in F4 with plenty of money, given their season is already over despite usually running till November.

#81 Jazza

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 22:28


Its getting promoted by a rival group to Supercars, so i would imagine there would be some roadblocks there. I think half the grid will probably be made up of those in F4 with plenty of money, given their season is already over despite usually running till November.


My mistake. I thought this was the one run by supercars?

I remember there was an original idea independent of supercars but I thought supercars took the idea.

#82 FPV GTHO

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 01:58

My mistake. I thought this was the one run by supercars?

I remember there was an original idea independent of supercars but I thought supercars took the idea.


The 2 ideas came together somehow, but in the shake up it's still ARC promoting this one, who also have TCR, Touring Car Masters and TA2. There's already alot of push and shove going between Supercars and TCR over trying to get TCR races at Adelaide.

#83 Ben1445

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 20:59

https://www.carsales...0-debut-119943/

Organisers looking to have a high profile driver available when the cars debut, with Villeneuve and Button being suggested.

 
Barrichello, apparently... 
https://www.motorspo...tralia/4513874/

 

 

What are the aims/intended audience/outlook for this series? Is it literally just an F3 car...except it's got a 5.0 litre V8 for some reason? 



#84 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 21:12

What are the aims/intended audience/outlook for this series? Is it literally just an F3 car...except it's got a 5.0 litre V8 for some reason? 

 

That's correct.  It also has wider tyres, a Holinger sequential transaxle (instead of the usual F3 box: Hewland? and probably much smaller and lighter) and less underbody aero (instead, a larger rear wing).

 

Personally, I think using a F3 tub is no issue at all.  A tub, is a tub, is a tub.  They are all much the same.

 

A mistake however, is having such a incredibly low level of downforce.  :down:   The whole point of a F3000 or GP2 or Indycar type Formula car is that it has a good amount of downforce.  Downforce is free grip.  Free grip is king! This car, however, has hardly any downforce at all which is a pity.

 

4-2.jpg

 

Above Lotus T125 shows how you design a diffuser to maximise free aero grip!  Downforce FTW! 


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 15 August 2019 - 21:14.


#85 GreenMachine

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 22:15

Lack of uber downforce is deliberate, considered policy.  For the spectacle.  As anyone who has followed the development of this series/car should know.

 

You may not like this policy, in which case please feel free to develop your own car, and start your own series.  And start your own thread.



#86 maximilian

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 22:47

So looks like Boobens Barrichello will be racing in the inaugural event.  Not a bad signing!  :up:



#87 FPV GTHO

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 00:29

Rubens should bring plenty of character with him. Villeneuve has plenty of history doing the endurance rounds with Supercars, so I could have easily seen him be a part of S5000. I don't think his character would be as positive though.

#88 kumo7

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 01:17

Affordable Open wheel for Australian race fans, that cultivate younger race drivers? Sounds good.

But the cars look a bit nostalgic tho.

I kind of like to see the cars being Wingless, boat shaped chassis working on ground effect... something got to be cutting edge?

#89 HistoryFan

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 12:48

Barrichello is a nice fit. Let's see who else will join the grid – especially for full-time. It's not far to the season opener.



#90 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 13:16

Only 350 kg more than 90's F1 cars.



#91 BiggestBuddyLazierFan

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 13:21

This concept seems like failed formula Masters from mid 00s

Primitive, although rather powerfull vehicles with washouts from yesteryear

Edited by BiggestBuddyLazierFan, 16 August 2019 - 13:22.


#92 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 16:49

Lack of uber downforce is deliberate, considered policy.  For the spectacle.  As anyone who has followed the development of this series/car should know.

 

The idea that a car that corners at 1.8 g's is "more spectacular" than a car that corners at 3 g 's, makes no sense whatsoever.   ;)  John Martin himself commented on the severe lack of cornering grip of the S5000 compared to the F3000-type A1GP car he had raced previously.

 

By comparison to the Indycar's 3 g's, an F1 car corners at up to 5 g's, and that's why the F1 is truly spectacular around places like Silverstone.  :up:

 

Yes, the four wheel drifts of F1 in the seventies were nice, but those were due to using crossply tyres.  The S5000 will run radial tyres (as F1 has used since 1980), so S5000 won't four wheel drift through turns, they just won't. 

 

The idea low downforce = four wheel drifts everywhere is just plain wrong, for that you need to specify crossply tyres.  Low downforce, just means a slow, ponderous race car that lumbers through the corners instead of blitzing through them.


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 16 August 2019 - 16:55.


#93 boomn

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 18:09

The idea that a car that corners at 1.8 g's is "more spectacular" than a car that corners at 3 g 's, makes no sense whatsoever.   ;)  John Martin himself commented on the severe lack of cornering grip of the S5000 compared to the F3000-type A1GP car he had raced previously.

 

By comparison to the Indycar's 3 g's, an F1 car corners at up to 5 g's, and that's why the F1 is truly spectacular around places like Silverstone.  :up:

 

Yes, the four wheel drifts of F1 in the seventies were nice, but those were due to using crossply tyres.  The S5000 will run radial tyres (as F1 has used since 1980), so S5000 won't four wheel drift through turns, they just won't. 

 

The idea low downforce = four wheel drifts everywhere is just plain wrong, for that you need to specify crossply tyres.  Low downforce, just means a slow, ponderous race car that lumbers through the corners instead of blitzing through them.

All fair points, but there is plenty on the other side too.  This is about more than just drifting

 

Indycar decreased overall downforce by 20% for 2018 and I think the overall spectacle was improved, even if the cornering speed is now lower.  Braking zones got longer and a bit more skill dependent.  Lower grip out of corners means acceleration is a bit more skill dependent too.  These things have created more opportunities for drivers to make moves.  And we get to watch the cars dance while braking and squirm under throttle out of the corners, and watch the drivers saw at the wheel to catch their cars.  

 

High downforce is at the heart of the issues with F1 according to many, including F1's own "Overtaking Working Group" from 10 years ago that recommended a 50% reduction!.  Imagine if drivers actually struggled to keep it flat through some of those Silvertstone corners   It doesn't help that F1 rarely uses camera angles that actually convey the speed well

 

A lot of this seems to depend on if you want to prioritize wowing people with raw speed or captivating people with tension and drama.  I do want both, but there does seem to be some inherent dichotomy as downforce increases



#94 maximilian

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 20:53

washouts from yesteryear

 

Seems like Barrichello is just a one-off "guest star" entry to gain some extra attention for the debut race, and won't be racing the full season.  I would expect the rest of the field to be comprised of "current" drivers from the AustralAsiaNZ region.  But very curious who will in fact enter.  14 cars doesn't sound like a lot, but I guess can't expect too much at this point.



#95 FPV GTHO

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Posted 17 August 2019 - 12:39

Other than better racing, keeping the downforce low will no doubt go some ways to also keeping the costs low.

#96 Jazza

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Posted 17 August 2019 - 13:54

And safer.

These aren’t grade one tracks that they will be racing on. Can’t have them going through corners at 300kph with 20 meters of dirt and one row of tyres if they go off.

Corner speeds have to be Supercar, F4, Porsche, etc, comparable.

#97 Ben1445

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Posted 17 August 2019 - 21:06

I will be interested to see how this series fares. Could tell us a few things about the present and future of motorsport - namely is there a place for this kind of low cost, ICE single seater (in a world where even IndyCar thinks it now needs to be 'hybrid'). Or indeed it could end up being very inconclusive to that aspect for all sorts of reasons. I'm open minded and making no presumption either way. 

 

Using the 5.0L V8 from the Supercars is obviously convenient and of course will be much appreciated by those who like that sort of thing (does nothing for me though). It's trying to be low-cost, which makes sense regarding the engines and F3 chassis, and I presume aiming to tap into the existing Supercars audience? An Australian IndyCar? 

 

I think what I'm asking is by what conditions would this series deem itself to be successful? That seems like the most appropriate reference to go by. 


Edited by Ben1445, 17 August 2019 - 21:07.


#98 FPV GTHO

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 00:10

They're using the FT5000 engines, which were the Mustang based engine, not the Super 5000 engines that were the Supercars engines.

#99 AustinF1

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 03:54

This thread is makin' me hungry...



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#100 Ben1445

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 08:22

They're using the FT5000 engines, which were the Mustang based engine, not the Super 5000 engines that were the Supercars engines.

So they are. My bad.

So it’s using a big old V8 for no particularly good reason then? Just as a sort of nod to the old F5000?