19 replies to this topic

[HistoryFan]

The last privateer win was 1998

 

But what were very surprising wins?

[superden]

1995, the unfancied Lanzante McLaren.

[DeKnyff]

1979, the private Porsche 935 Gr. 5 of Klaus Ludwing & Withington brothers

[chunder27]

Of course Mazda

 

No other Japanese have won despite throwing billions at it.

 

And perhaps even the McLaren win in my lifetime.

[Stephane]

Porsche was not favorite in 98, but hardly a privateer.

[Viryfan]

Jean Rondeau in 1980.

[scheivlak]

Jochen Rindt/Masten Gregory(/Ed Hugus?) from about last to first in an old Ferrari LM in 1965.

[ensign14]

1995, the unfancied Lanzante McLaren.

 

It's hailed as an underdog win now, but I remember at the time thinking that McLaren would win.  With the big boys and that stupid Dauer out of the picture there were few obviously faster cars in the race.

 

Logically the 24 hours should preclude there being an underdog winner, unless literally all the leaders drop out.  Because the minor instances that can put someone a lap off the pace either even themselves out or, as we saw today, should not stop an obviously faster car from winning.

 

For all that I would submit one of the outsider wins was 1953.  OK, the C-types were potent bits of kit, but in that race you had every living solo WC Grand Prix winner from 1950 to mid-1958.  And a good few others who were nearly there, like Marimon and Behra.   Would you have really picked as the winners from that field two chaps who never scored a World Championship point between them?  One of them a somewhat overweight chap nicknamed Drunken Duncan and the other most famous for trying to build a glider to get out of Colditz? 
 

[ArrowsLivery]

I think some of the Audi R8's which won were technically privateers.

[George Costanza]

The last privateer win was 1998

But what were very surprising wins?

1998 was Porsche factory team... now if you said 1996 and 1997, I would agree.

[George Costanza]

I think some of the Audi R8's which won were technically privateers.

Yes. 2004 and 2005.

[William Hunt]

Rondeau off course, also the Mazda of Gachot, Herbert & Weidler in 1991

And for sure Louis Rosier winning in his own Lago Talbot, a car he drove solo (his son took over 2 laps so Louis could go to the toilet), that was in 1950

[ensign14]

Although romantic, the Rondeau wasn't really an underdog winner.  Sportscars were in the doldrums.  The runner-up car was 12 years old.  The Rondeau was at least contemporary. 

 

Had Rondeau won the 1982 world championship, yes, that would have been an underdog win, and indeed Rondeau would have been world champions had FISA not mysteriously decided that a Porsche taxicab that had finished 9th at the Ring counted for 956 points.  How strange that Balestre favoured the Germans over the French, it's almost as if he had done the same thing a few decades before.

[Risil]

Not 935 points?

[jcbc3]

Although romantic, the Rondeau wasn't really an underdog winner.  Sportscars were in the doldrums.  The runner-up car was 12 years old.  The Rondeau was at least contemporary. 

 

Had Rondeau won the 1982 world championship, yes, that would have been an underdog win, and indeed Rondeau would have been world champions had FISA not mysteriously decided that a Porsche taxicab that had finished 9th at the Ring counted for 956 points.  How strange that Balestre favoured the Germans over the French, it's almost as if he had done the same thing a few decades before.

 

After the last race there was a headline in a Swedish magazine: "David beat Goliath!"

Next issue in same typeface and picture: "Goliath beat David!"

 

I thought that was good editing.

[Imateria]

It's hailed as an underdog win now, but I remember at the time thinking that McLaren would win.  With the big boys and that stupid Dauer out of the picture there were few obviously faster cars in the race.

 

Logically the 24 hours should preclude there being an underdog winner, unless literally all the leaders drop out.  Because the minor instances that can put someone a lap off the pace either even themselves out or, as we saw today, should not stop an obviously faster car from winning.

 

For all that I would submit one of the outsider wins was 1953.  OK, the C-types were potent bits of kit, but in that race you had every living solo WC Grand Prix winner from 1950 to mid-1958.  And a good few others who were nearly there, like Marimon and Behra.   Would you have really picked as the winners from that field two chaps who never scored a World Championship point between them?  One of them a somewhat overweight chap nicknamed Drunken Duncan and the other most famous for trying to build a glider to get out of Colditz? 
 

With 95 I think it was more because it was the Lanzante car that won, the DPR and GTC cars were generally faster leading up to and through the early part of the race.

 

I might include 2005 as well. It might be strange to consider an Audi R8 as an underdog but there had been significant aero rule changes for 05 and the Pescarolo was more than 5s a lap faster than the Champion Audi. Between Loeb being not quite as quick as his team mates, the lead Pesca loosing 6 laps to an early gearbox problem (it gained 5 of those laps back over the rest of the race) and Kristensen demonstrating why he's called Mr Le Mans during the night, Henri lost his best chance of an overall win as a team boss and the last time a privateer genuinly challenged for the out right win.

[KWSN - DSM]

Come on now, underdog is a team coming from nowhere beating the might of those clearly presumed to win - Peugeot, AUDI, Porsche competing with budgets combined more than rest of field combined can not ever be an underdog - Jacky Chan winning that is underdog, a team winning in the best car in 1995 is not underdog only least expected of the best cars to win.

 

[BRG]

I would suggest the 1978 win by Renault might count.  They had no endurance racing experience and the turbo version of their V6 was not expected to be reliable.

 

Another possible is the 1975 Mirage win - accepted wisdom at the time was that the Cosworth could last 24 hours.

[messy]

It wasn't a privateer, but I found the 1999 BMW V12 LMR win a little bit surprising, because all the focus seemed to be on Toyota, Mercedes and Audi in the runup and that 'number two' BMW seemed to pick up the pieces when the fancied runners hit problems, rather than by being incredibly quick. At the start of that race, it looked like Toyota were going to clear off into the sunset didn't it? Although to be fair, the other BMW was able to keep pace with them before hitting trouble.

In that race, the pre-event favourites seemed to start dropping like flies before the race even began, and Audi were a disappointment. So I suppose the BMW win wasn't that much of a surprise really.

1997, then - the Alboreto/Johansson/Kristensen privateer Porsche entry. That felt like a nice story. The two ex F1 drivers and the young legend-to-be, in a pretty battered old car, in the last year before the new prototypes started to appear and there weren't the big money manufacturer entries. The romance of it was there that year.

[scheivlak]

I would suggest the 1978 win by Renault might count.  They had no endurance racing experience and the turbo version of their V6 was not expected to be reliable.

 

Renault was already there in 1977 with a four car entry, lead (at times 1-2-3) until 9 AM and lost their last car (in second place) just 2 hours before the end. A Mirage-Renault (Schuppan/Jarier) did finish in second place that year, so the reliability could be there to finish the race.