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McLaren Honda MCL32 part 5


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#1 Risil

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 16:15

Finally, part 5 is here! Please continue to discuss the McLaren-Honda challenger below.

 

Edit: Here's the link to part 4 (locked)



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#2 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 16:16

First.



#3 MirNyet

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 16:17

You're first to my last :D


Edited by MirNyet, 24 June 2017 - 16:18.


#4 Diablobb81

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 16:18

Boom!

#5 PedroDiCasttro

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 16:19

I think it's about time McLaren-Honda start threatening Mercedes for the win, otherwise we'll have another boring season ahead of us.  :stoned:


Edited by PedroDiCasttro, 24 June 2017 - 16:23.


#6 Disgrace

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 16:21

Honda. Nuh-uh, chassis. But Honda. But, but Boullier. Yeah, but Honda though. /thread



#7 MirNyet

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 16:21

I think it's about time Mclaren-Honda start threatening Mercedes for the win, otherwise we'll have another boring season ahead of us.  :stoned:

 

The only thing McLaren-Honda will be threatening Mercedes for this year is most forum pages.



#8 CPR

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 16:21

I really hope we can see some real progress by the time we get to part 6...



#9 MirNyet

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 16:23

I really hope we can see some real progress by the time we get to part 6...

 

Would be great - but it's very, very doubtful.



#10 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 16:23

Repost:

 

I wonder who is really interested to supply McLaren a PU if any.

 



#11 Joseki

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 16:27

We write pages as fast Honda's engine blow up.

#12 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 16:29

Boom!

Obviously you hadn't received countermeasures.



#13 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 16:30

Toto did not deny that he's had talks with McLaren, but of course he can't confirm there is a potential deal before the contract with Honda is officially broken. 



#14 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 16:31

You're first to my last :D

That was close  :D



#15 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 16:40

Toto did not deny that he's had talks with McLaren, but of course he can't confirm there is a potential deal before the contract with Honda is officially broken. 

There is no guarantee that Mercedes would want to supply McLaren. Toto Wolff obviously said if Honda decided to not continue with McLaren and McLaren left without PU, there would be lots of options for McLaren. IMO there is no guarantee that Mercedes would want to supply McLaren.

 

All being said, IMO McLaren with semi competitive works Honda PU would be in much better shape than a competitive Mercedes customer PU which is not as much competitive as the Mercedes works PU.


Edited by RainyAfterlifeDaylight, 24 June 2017 - 16:44.


#16 Alonsofan007

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 16:50

There is no guarantee that Mercedes would want to supply McLaren. Toto Wolff obviously said if Honda decided to not continue with McLaren and McLaren left without PU, there would be lots of options for McLaren. IMO there is no guarantee that Mercedes would want to supply McLaren.

 

All being said, IMO McLaren with semi competitive works Honda PU would be in much better shape than a competitive Mercedes customer PU which is not as much competitive as the Mercedes works PU.

fact is if you ask ferrari n renault the same questions you'll get exactly same answer 'they will consider it' n there is no guarantee,  until there is an official announcement don't expect any team to say anything more than what toto said , so there is no news here.



#17 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 16:52

fact is if you ask ferrari n renault the same questions you'll get exactly same answer 'they will consider it' n there is no guarantee,  until there is an official announcement don't expect any team to say anything more than what toto said , so there is no news here.

What happened to RedBull back in 2015 (broken promises by Mercedes and Ferrari), could happen to McLaren, that is why I say there is no guarantee but some people here think that customer Mercedes PU is a given for McLaren which is not IMO.


Edited by RainyAfterlifeDaylight, 24 June 2017 - 16:53.


#18 Timothy

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 17:07

 

 

All being said, IMO McLaren with semi competitive works Honda PU would be in much better shape than a competitive Mercedes customer PU which is not as much competitive as the Mercedes works PU.

 

And how did you arrive at this conclusion? McLaren with a customer Mercedes PU has scored more points in each singular season past than they'll score with Honda all three season put together and counting.



#19 Alonsofan007

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 17:09

What happened to RedBull back in 2015 (broken promises by Mercedes and Ferrari), could happen to McLaren, that is why I say there is no guarantee but some people here think that customer Mercedes PU is a given for McLaren which is not IMO.

i don't think RB and McLaren are in similar situation, McLaren was former Merc's factory team their relationship is different from that of RB.

 

Tho nothing is guaranteed i didn't expect toto to say anything different even if deal is already signed to supply McLaren. 



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#20 TomNokoe

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 17:23

This thread will have more parts than McLaren have points come November

#21 Clrnc

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 17:25

All being said, IMO McLaren with semi competitive works Honda PU would be in much better shape than a competitive Mercedes customer PU which is not as much competitive as the Mercedes works PU.

Is there a typo or mistranslation somewhere? This does not make sense at all.



#22 Joseki

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 17:33

 
"We are obviously making a lot of compromises this weekend in terms of aero set-up to try and gain a little bit of speed down the straight," said the Belgian. "I think normally we should be running a bit more downforce, and we should be more competitive in the middle sector.
 
Eric.


#23 Marklar

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 17:35

Wait, what?

 

 

 

"I'm a racer like these guys [the drivers], so this is the most painful weekend I've ever had, I think."

https://www.motorspo...mclaren-922731/



#24 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 17:38

Honda and Mclaren should've been playing the political game harder. I think they could've gotten a concession from FIA to get a bigger allocation of engines before penalties, but it does not look like they ever attempted anything. 



#25 MirNyet

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 17:42

 

 
"We are obviously making a lot of compromises this weekend in terms of aero set-up to try and gain a little bit of speed down the straight," said the Belgian. "I think normally we should be running a bit more downforce, and we should be more competitive in the middle sector.
 
Eric.

 

 

said the Belgian - this is from the driver.



#26 Maustinsj

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 17:47

Fernando-Alonso-McLaren-Honda-Formel-1-G

 

Fernando-Alonso-McLaren-Honda-Formel-1-G

 

Stoffel-Vandoorne-McLaren-Honda-Formel-1

 

McLaren-Honda-Formel-1-GP-Aseerbaidschan

 

McLaren-Honda-Formel-1-GP-Aseerbaidschan

 

McLaren-Honda-Formel-1-GP-Aseerbaidschan

 

McLaren-Honda-Formel-1-GP-Aseerbaidschan

 

McLaren-Honda-Formel-1-GP-Aseerbaidschan

 

McLaren-Honda-Formel-1-GP-Aseerbaidschan

 

Stoffel-Vandoorne-McLaren-Honda-Formel-1

 

Fernando-Alonso-McLaren-Honda-Formel-1-G

 

AMuS



#27 Maustinsj

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 17:54

0826797.jpg

 

0826795.jpg



#28 pdac

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 17:55

Finally, part 5 is here! Please continue to discuss the McLaren-Honda challenger below.

 

Where's the link back to part 4?



#29 TcAn

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 17:58

Honda and Mclaren should've been playing the political game harder. I think they could've gotten a concession from FIA to get a bigger allocation of engines before penalties, but it does not look like they ever attempted anything. 

Allocation for what?! There is no single point of improvement in that "piece of jewelry" till now! 



#30 DeKnyff

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 17:58

There is no guarantee that Mercedes would want to supply McLaren. Toto Wolff obviously said if Honda decided to not continue with McLaren and McLaren left without PU, there would be lots of options for McLaren. IMO there is no guarantee that Mercedes would want to supply McLaren.

 

All being said, IMO McLaren with semi competitive works Honda PU would be in much better shape than a competitive Mercedes customer PU which is not as much competitive as the Mercedes works PU.

 

This is Formula 1. Do never take what team principals say at its face value. Not a blatant lie, of course, but neither the complete truth.



#31 Risil

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 18:10

Where's the link back to part 4?

 

Added to the OP



#32 f1paul

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 18:14

 

(the car is going at exactly the same speed it does on the track)  :p



#33 rodlamas

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 19:08

I insist

Mercedes and Mclaren have already agreed on an engine supply deal. The words of Toto Wolf are the ones from a CEO of company who cannot disclose their deals until it's time. Additionally, Mclaren and Honda will fight in court for hundreds of millions of dollars and therefore any information leak would be horrible at this time.

Toto says: "One thing is if Mclaren wants to leave, the other is if Honda doesnt want to supply Mclaren anymore." This clearly a legal matter.

The only thing that remain a doubt is that it will be in Spa or in 2018. And I think it will be Spa and Liberty in involved on that and a big buzz will be created around in order to amplify F1's audience and money.

#34 Rudex

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 19:37

Here, better comparative between low and high DF rear wing.

 

DDG3ZlgXUAA9hiO.jpg



#35 Clatter

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 19:42

Honda and Mclaren should've been playing the political game harder. I think they could've gotten a concession from FIA to get a bigger allocation of engines before penalties, but it does not look like they ever attempted anything.

Why on earth should it even be considered that they should get a bigger allocation?

#36 Rudex

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 19:43

Real life

 

DDGxl80XgAE4XUz.jpg



#37 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 19:45

Why on earth should it even be considered that they should get a bigger allocation?

 

Because Honda are having big issues and it's a problem for the series? It's not uncommon in other disciplines for struggling teams to get some sort of extra allowances before they figure it out. 



#38 Clatter

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 19:50

Because Honda are having big issues and it's a problem for the series? It's not uncommon in other disciplines for struggling teams to get some sort of extra allowances before they figure it out.

Its a problem for McLaren and Honda, not the series. There is no reason to give them a larger allocation, that would not help them fix the problems. You just need to accept that they have to work through it within the rules, and when they get it right the penalties will stop.

#39 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 20:11

And how did you arrive at this conclusion? McLaren with a customer Mercedes PU has scored more points in each singular season past than they'll score with Honda all three season put together and counting.

 

Is there a typo or mistranslation somewhere? This does not make sense at all.

The disagreement that exists between us is that you think Honda are not going anywhere and your logic is that Honda have been underperforming since 2015 so it is enough.

 

I've always separated 2015 and 2016 from 2017 because Honda unfortunately miscalculated their initial concept, so to be able to catch up to rivals, they changed the concept for 2017 and they need time to make it better.

 

I've never denied that Honda are underperforming but I believe McLaren need to wait a little bit more in 2017 to see if Honda can reach their targets or not. I think McLaren are in two minds and they haven't taken any decision yet regarding Honda situation.

 

Ultimately McLaren is the one that will take the decision and I still think they will be with Honda in 2018.



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#40 DeKnyff

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 20:41

Ultimately McLaren is the one that will take the decision and I still think they will be with Honda in 2018.

 

Not sure. McLaren has clearly tightened his position after Canada and they are still waiting for the upgrade which means a clear improvement. It hasn't come yet in Baku (12 hp and only twenty laps in free practice is obviously not enough) and now they are probably hoping to have it in Austria. I don't think they they can't wait any longer if they want to implement a change and I don't think they'll trust Honda any more unless they see a measurable performance improvement both in qualy (power) and race (fuel efficiency). IMO, Honda is playing a match ball in the next or at best the next two races.



#41 Talisman

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 21:17

Not sure. McLaren has clearly tightened his position after Canada and they are still waiting for the upgrade which means a clear improvement. It hasn't come yet in Baku (12 hp and only twenty laps in free practice is obviously not enough) and now they are probably hoping to have it in Austria. I don't think they they can't wait any longer if they want to implement a change and I don't think they'll trust Honda any more unless they see a measurable performance improvement both in qualy (power) and race (fuel efficiency). IMO, Honda is playing a match ball in the next or at best the next two races.


I think Honda's performance in the next few races will actually be of almost no relevance whatsoever to McLaren's decision.

In terms of performance what will mean more for mclaren in the long term are tangible changes in Honda's approach, a recognition that the current state of affairs cannot continue and concrete proposals including an increase in resource allocation for the engine department. By Honda I'm not talking about Hasegawa but CEO level. This improvement will take months, years to filter down to a better engine so current performance improvements are of little relevance in measuring the effect of any such change.

Other important factors include whether any rival car manufacturers are willing to supply McLaren, and the reality is that there is precious little evidence anyone including Mercedes is seriously interested in doing so.

Then there is the financial aspect which people are keen to sideline. McLaren is reliant on Honda for a significant chunk of its budget which more than compensates for the loss in prize money income due to loss of performance. The current chassis is great and they've been improving steadily since 2015. That coincides with McLaren's recruitment binge with Honda money that took place through 2013/4. Once Honda goes so does half the McLaren technical team unless the Bahrainis cough up and again there is little evidence that they are keen to do so.

Alonso is probably gone regardless of what happens. A Mercedes engine means by definition a loss of works status and he will be aware of the financial black hole the team will face. His salary will be difficult to justify in the circumstances for McLaren although they will be keen to keep him as a flagship premium name, one of very few that McLaren will retain. He has few years left to win that third championship so I suspect he'll be looking for a ready to go top team instead though.

IMO McLaren will be making loud noises that they want to terminate the contract for obvious reasons but unless they want to decline will have no choice but to stick with Honda. The gamble for them will be that Honda may find McLaren too difficult and counterproductive to work with in terms of public criticism that they will move on once the engine becomes competitive cutting short the contract on their side.

#42 BillBald

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 21:49

I think Honda's performance in the next few races will actually be of almost no relevance whatsoever to McLaren's decision.

...

 

Alonso is probably gone regardless of what happens.

 

...

IMO McLaren will be making loud noises that they want to terminate the contract for obvious reasons but unless they want to decline will have no choice but to stick with Honda. The gamble for them will be that Honda may find McLaren too difficult and counterproductive to work with in terms of public criticism that they will move on once the engine becomes competitive cutting short the contract on their side.

 

I think you may be right, concerning most of the above.

 

When Alonso says that having a Merc engine will make no difference, it sounds like he has decided not to stay at McLaren.

 

Your last sentence is more doubtful. At the moment the only serious alternative partner for Honda would be Red Bull, who have engaged in plenty of public criticism of Renault, with much less justification.

 

Of course, in a few years' time, another team could come to the fore, maybe even Haas.


Edited by BillBald, 25 June 2017 - 17:09.


#43 DeKnyff

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 22:25

I think Honda's performance in the next few races will actually be of almost no relevance whatsoever to McLaren's decision.

In terms of performance what will mean more for mclaren in the long term are tangible changes in Honda's approach, a recognition that the current state of affairs cannot continue and concrete proposals including an increase in resource allocation for the engine department. By Honda I'm not talking about Hasegawa but CEO level. This improvement will take months, years to filter down to a better engine so current performance improvements are of little relevance in measuring the effect of any such change.

Other important factors include whether any rival car manufacturers are willing to supply McLaren, and the reality is that there is precious little evidence anyone including Mercedes is seriously interested in doing so.

Then there is the financial aspect which people are keen to sideline. McLaren is reliant on Honda for a significant chunk of its budget which more than compensates for the loss in prize money income due to loss of performance. The current chassis is great and they've been improving steadily since 2015. That coincides with McLaren's recruitment binge with Honda money that took place through 2013/4. Once Honda goes so does half the McLaren technical team unless the Bahrainis cough up and again there is little evidence that they are keen to do so.

Alonso is probably gone regardless of what happens. A Mercedes engine means by definition a loss of works status and he will be aware of the financial black hole the team will face. His salary will be difficult to justify in the circumstances for McLaren although they will be keen to keep him as a flagship premium name, one of very few that McLaren will retain. He has few years left to win that third championship so I suspect he'll be looking for a ready to go top team instead though.

IMO McLaren will be making loud noises that they want to terminate the contract for obvious reasons but unless they want to decline will have no choice but to stick with Honda. The gamble for them will be that Honda may find McLaren too difficult and counterproductive to work with in terms of public criticism that they will move on once the engine becomes competitive cutting short the contract on their side.

 

On the financial side, continuing with Honda (unless there is an unlikely significant improvement in the short term) is also a lose-lose situation for the Bahrainis, no matter how much money Honda puts on the table, as the value of their investment value drops year after year. They simply can't afford to see their multi-million business go down the drain. So, I wouldn't discard a capital increase from them (which would also, incidentally, dilute Ron's share even more). On the same line of thinking, it would also be vital for McLaren to keep Alonso on board, as he is the last precious link between McLaren and top teams. Why else would Zak have arranged the Indy race for him?

 

Concerning the possibility of having a Mercedes engine, well, everything is opened to interpretations, but I found Toto's words too vague to reject that possibility. He definitely didn't say "no, McLaren won`t have Mercedes engines", which for Formula 1 standards is an answer with plenty of possible outcomes. And that story of "we won't do anything until McLaren and Honda split" seems a perfect PR/lawyer filtered response, as someone else pointed out before.

 

The competitivity of McLaren Mercedes vs. Mercedes factory team... well, we don't know. We can't take for granted that a customer team will never be on pair (let alone beat) with a factory team just because it has never happened under the current engine formula. What has happened is that there has been a largely dominant team that has had a very easy life for three years. And other customer team didn't have the potential that McLaren still has, so we can't compare Force India or Williams with McLaren, although, in fact, both Force India and Williams have been closer to the top with a Mercedes engine than they┬┤ve ever been in the last fifteen years. Now things have changed, Mercedes doesn't rule anymore and maybe they will need another top level team to beat Ferrari and Red Bull. Also, Mercedes (as all car manufacturers) won't stay as a team forever.

 

I don't know, we can only speculate, but one thing is certain: Formula 1 never disappoints us when it comes to unexpected outcomes.


Edited by DeKnyff, 24 June 2017 - 22:30.


#44 Alonsofan007

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 22:37

Other important factors include whether any rival car manufacturers are willing to supply McLaren, and the reality is that there is precious little evidence anyone including Mercedes is seriously interested in doing so.

Then there is the financial aspect which people are keen to sideline. McLaren is reliant on Honda for a significant chunk of its budget which more than compensates for the loss in prize money income due to loss of performance. The current chassis is great and they've been improving steadily since 2015. That coincides with McLaren's recruitment binge with Honda money that took place through 2013/4. Once Honda goes so does half the McLaren technical team unless the Bahrainis cough up and again there is little evidence that they are keen to do so.

Alonso is probably gone regardless of what happens. A Mercedes engine means by definition a loss of works status and he will be aware of the financial black hole the team will face. His salary will be difficult to justify in the circumstances for McLaren although they will be keen to keep him as a flagship premium name, one of very few that McLaren will retain. He has few years left to win that third championship so I suspect he'll be looking for a ready to go top team instead though.

 

 

 

 

am not sure where you are getting that no one is willing to supply, just that no one will say it out because you don't say it when McLaren is still affiliated to Honda, but if you want to go by reports there are plenty that say Merc are willing to supply.

 

And about funding tho its huge like Zak explained when you take everything into account it doesn't make much difference. And i am pretty sure I  read somewhere or heard on skyf1 that bahrainis are willing to fund for termination of Honda's contract if that is the decision.

 

i don't know if alonso will be gone next year from McLaren, this will be only good seat available next year outside Merc n Ferrari, he likes these cars and wants to stay.



#45 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 22:45

I don't think Mercedes is "scared" of McLaren as they were of Red Bull. Red Bull's pedigree at the time was impeccable, McLaren's is not.

#46 Flyhigh

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 22:58

Criticizing Honda is so redundant by now that it is just a complete waste of energy. My concern with this team is squarely on Mclaren, the ball is on their court, all I am waiting for is the announcement of going to Mercedes, which I hope will happen this season still, where we are not even close to half way yet, and would create such a buzz, such a spike in interest, it would be good for everyone, fans, Liberty, newspapers/media, Mclaren, F1, etc.  The other option is for next year, but that would still be painful, seeing this whole mellow drama payout through the season. 

 


Edited by Flyhigh, 24 June 2017 - 23:02.


#47 Talisman

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 23:05

Why can't Williams and McLaren be compared? McLaren without Honda funding and having to pay for its engines will have a similar budget to Williams. It won't be a threat for Mercedes itself.

#48 Flyhigh

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 23:23

I think Honda's performance in the next few races will actually be of almost no relevance whatsoever to McLaren's decision.

In terms of performance what will mean more for mclaren in the long term are tangible changes in Honda's approach, a recognition that the current state of affairs cannot continue and concrete proposals including an increase in resource allocation for the engine department. By Honda I'm not talking about Hasegawa but CEO level. This improvement will take months, years to filter down to a better engine so current performance improvements are of little relevance in measuring the effect of any such change.

Other important factors include whether any rival car manufacturers are willing to supply McLaren, and the reality is that there is precious little evidence anyone including Mercedes is seriously interested in doing so.

Then there is the financial aspect which people are keen to sideline. McLaren is reliant on Honda for a significant chunk of its budget which more than compensates for the loss in prize money income due to loss of performance. The current chassis is great and they've been improving steadily since 2015. That coincides with McLaren's recruitment binge with Honda money that took place through 2013/4. Once Honda goes so does half the McLaren technical team unless the Bahrainis cough up and again there is little evidence that they are keen to do so.

Alonso is probably gone regardless of what happens. A Mercedes engine means by definition a loss of works status and he will be aware of the financial black hole the team will face. His salary will be difficult to justify in the circumstances for McLaren although they will be keen to keep him as a flagship premium name, one of very few that McLaren will retain. He has few years left to win that third championship so I suspect he'll be looking for a ready to go top team instead though.

IMO McLaren will be making loud noises that they want to terminate the contract for obvious reasons but unless they want to decline will have no choice but to stick with Honda. The gamble for them will be that Honda may find McLaren too difficult and counterproductive to work with in terms of public criticism that they will move on once the engine becomes competitive cutting short the contract on their side.

A whole lot of it "seems unlikely" assumptions on your end, Oh "it seems unlikely that other manufactures will supply Mclaren" not based on any facts, on the contrary, "it seems unlikely the owners of Mclaren will couch more money" and Mclaren as a group, a business that is worth 2 billion and totally depends on the their F1 exercise for image, as well as the interest of their investors. 

Just over reaching arguments, with no basis. Mclaren out posturing is clear of someone who wants out asap. I am actually already tired already of reading about Alonso, Boullie, Brown, Mansur Ojjeh all pissing on Honda and making it clear how much they want out. I am like, I got it already stop complaining and get on to the announcement.    


Edited by Flyhigh, 24 June 2017 - 23:42.


#49 Ricardo F1

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 03:06

I think McLaren's biggest problem is the looming Honda/Sauber arrangement - there is absolutely the possibility in the longer term of McLaren having just been workhorses for Honda, only to find themselves a customer Honda receiver with Sauber getting a works deal with a view to a buyout which is never going to happen with McLaren.  That would be the worst of all worlds. . . . it seems somewhat unlikely that Honda have the appetite for owning a team in F1 again now, but I don't think they'd say never.



#50 damager21

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 04:07

I insist


The only thing that remain a doubt is that it will be in Spa or in 2018. And I think it will be Spa and Liberty in involved on that and a big buzz will be created around in order to amplify F1's audience and money.

 

Not possible. F1 needs more teams and more engine manufacturers. If Liberty was to work in the background to help McLaren work with Mercedes again, they are surely pushing Honda out of F1 and in the process closing doors for any other engine manufacturer to enter F1. Pretty damaging for the business. 

 

On a separate topic, I am not too sure about the options Alonso has for 2018. He clearly wants to win his third championship and has only 3 options outside of McLaren - Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull. I don't see Red Bull signing Alonso. So if Mercedes (Bottas out) or Ferrari (Kimi out) were to sign Alonso he will move else will stay with McLaren. He is getting paid huge money's which none of the other teams can afford to pay. Really hope Mercedes does sign him.

 

I dont see Renault being on top till 2020 so no point in joining Renault too.


Edited by damager21, 25 June 2017 - 04:09.