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McLaren Honda MCL32 part 5


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#101 Joseki

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 12:34

Yeah, but I don't know if we have to understand it as 3.5 tenths or "way above 2 or 3 tenths".

 
 It's probably sligthly more than 3 tenths, maybe half a second at best. Nowhere near what McLaren needs.
 

Roll on Williams Honda.

 
Poor Williams, the aftermath of that partnership will be nightmare.
 

I think one McLaren won't finish the race.


McLaren has never finished a race with both cars this year, it's just a question of when they are going to retire than if.

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#102 CPR

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 12:37

Not seen this posted: see the tweet for a little video from the garage and includes some chatting with Matt Morris:

https://twitter.com/...926875657216000



#103 New Britain

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 12:44

Losing Vodaphone is one thing, not being able to find a replacement another. Mercedes was replaced by Honda so the lack of performance excepted they've done ok on that front. I don't think Lewis would have left Woking had he been convinced of the team's long term competitiveness. I was among those who laughed at his decision at the time but he clearly based his decision on more than a hunch and a surge of anger at a DNF.

 

You've not convinced me about Hamilton's decision at the time. I think it had more to do with his feeling that Ron, as was Lewis's father, was too controlling and Lewis wanted to be his "own man". Ross Brawn appeared to be less controlling. That in itself would not be indicative of the two teams' prospective fortunes. Indeed, both men are no longer team principals, so making a decision on the basis of their personalities was not necessarily a wise one, even though in this case it worked out well for Hamilton.

 

Regarding finding a replacement, media have said that in '13 Ron turned down a title sponsor proposal from GSK for, IIRC, £43/year. That was when he was talking about McLaren being the "ManU of racing" and deserving a premium rate. Since then, how many big-money sponsorships have come into F1, and how much are they worth? I think Ron got greedy at exactly the wrong time, although we don't know whether the rumoured big deal from a Chinese company might have been real, but then someone changed their mind/broke their word at the last minute.



#104 Rudex

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 12:52

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#105 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 13:12

Well that pure drag race against 2016 Ferrari power didnt go entirely horrible but yes we are still behind


Edited by TakataDomeNSX, 25 June 2017 - 13:28.


#106 registered

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 13:28

What happened at the start? One McLaren was very slow

#107 DerekWildstar

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 13:31

the gap is like 3 seconds, 0.3 will not help


Except the additional power should allow some more of the aero work to come into play. I'm not saying it's going to vault them to the front of the pack, but they can start to get better validation (or not) of their aero concepts. And whether or not McLaren stays with Honda next season, that's important information for the team to have as well.

#108 DerekWildstar

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 13:33

What happened at the start? One McLaren was very slow


Looked to me like FA backed off, rather than race into a pointless scrum...

#109 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 13:33

What happened at the start? One McLaren was very slow

With the next upgrade (Spec 2.5), Honda PU might be better than 2016 Ferrari PU already.


Edited by RainyAfterlifeDaylight, 25 June 2017 - 13:40.


#110 McLobby

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 13:47

Looks like we'll have the first points of the season after half the field was exterminated.  :D



#111 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 13:48

might we have a bit of good luck this race? :D

 

VAN better get in the points too!


Edited by TakataDomeNSX, 25 June 2017 - 13:50.


#112 ERICTOPF1

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 13:50

Whole field is doing the best they can to give us some points.

 

Will Honda allow it?



#113 DerekWildstar

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 14:07

Ssshhhhh!!!! Don't anyone say anything!!!!

McLobby, Takata, Eric, go outside, turn around three times, and spit. Go! Go! Go!!!

#114 Ferrari2012

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 14:08

Potential P6 with some penalty forLewis and Sebastian who are doing crazy stuff :D



#115 bogi

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 14:10

Alonso should be preserved for future generations.

Edited by bogi, 25 June 2017 - 14:11.


#116 DerekWildstar

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 14:18

Alonso should be preserved for future generations.


Or cloned.

#117 Outsider

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:10

what the hell - how did that happen? both mchondas finised a race. on lead lap



#118 Ferrari2012

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:10

Alonso is incredible.poor job from Vandoorne.



#119 CPR

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:11

9th place in crazy race. Not bad. Shame Stoffel couldn't get ahead of those Saubers.

 

First double finish of the season!


Edited by CPR, 25 June 2017 - 15:11.


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#120 Kev00

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:12

Don't know why they pitted Stoff. Was easily ahead of the Saubers and it was obvious Grosjean's brakes would go.

#121 CPR

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:14

Don't know why they pitted Stoff. Was easily ahead of the Saubers and it was obvious Grosjean's brakes would go.

 

He had a bad flat spot apparently.



#122 Outsider

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:14

Don't know why they pitted Stoff. Was easily ahead of the Saubers and it was obvious Grosjean's brakes would go.

flatspot his tyres



#123 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:14

9th place in crazy race. Not bad. Shame Stoffel couldn't get ahead of those Saubers.

 

First double finish of the season!

 

 

Do refrain from sounding positive or celebratory you will be swatted down by the too little too late still too poor never getting better brigade.


Edited by TakataDomeNSX, 25 June 2017 - 15:19.


#124 Mc_Silver

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:15

If we had 100HP more we would lap the field with Alonso. What a monster Alonso is. 



#125 Quickshifter

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:16

Despite the first points finish arising out of a stellar drive from Alonso, i can't help the feeling of meh as with a bit more power Alonso could have easily  finished 6th today.

 

Alonso was consistently faster than Sainz in S1 and S2 but was way off Sainz in S3.

 

As far as Vandoorne i don't want to mince words that was a pathetic performance. Vandoorne looks like he is lost somewhere with no sign of improvement.


Edited by Quickshifter, 25 June 2017 - 15:18.


#126 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:19

Despite the first points finish arising out of a stellar drive from Alonso, i can't help the feeling of meh as with a bit more power Alonso could have easily  finished 6th today.

 

Alonso was consistently faster than Sainz in S1 and S2 but was way off Sainz in S3.

 

As far as Vandoorne i don't want to mince words that was a pathetic performance. Vandoorne looks like he is lost somewhere with no sign of improvement.

 

Perhaps Mr Stroll is more talented?



#127 Mc_Silver

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:20

I'm sure McLaren has one of the best chassis out there. Alonso had to save battery and fuel all the time during the race. Honda please fix those damn issues and bring more power to the car. At least both cars finished today without any trouble. This is the first time we finish the race with both cars right?



#128 Quickshifter

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:20

Do refrain from sounding positive or celebratory you will be swatted down by the too little too late still too poor brigade.

 

A fair reflection is that first points finish is great but you cannot forget the context in that Alonso was powerless to stop being overtaken today. You could hear the pain in his voice on team radio. I am always optimistic but i feel there is a long way to go before Mclaren Honda can finish in points on merit  on a power track.


Edited by Quickshifter, 25 June 2017 - 15:21.


#129 restless

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:21

It seems if Alonso raced with spec 2.5 on board he could finish 6th or 7th



#130 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:22

A fair reflection is that first points finish is great but you cannot forget the context in that Alonso was powerless to stop being overtaken today. You could hear the pain in his voice on team radio. I am always optimistic but i feel there is a long way to go before Mclaren Honda can finish in points on merit  on a power track.

 

Indeed, agree.



#131 Eruobodo

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:23

It seems if Alonso raced with spec 2.5 on board he could finish 6th or 7th

Or not finished at all. We are grateful for the two points.



#132 restless

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:25

so true :(



#133 CPR

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:26

Despite the first points finish arising out of a stellar drive from Alonso, i can't help the feeling of meh as with a bit more power Alonso could have easily  finished 6th today.
 
Alonso was consistently faster than Sainz in S1 and S2 but was way off Sainz in S3.

 
Hindsight is 20/20 and all that but if they'd kept the new ICE in I think he'd have been 6th (assuming he had no issues).

 

As far as Vandoorne i don't want to mince words that was a pathetic performance. Vandoorne looks like he is lost somewhere with no sign of improvement.


I dunno what it is but he needs to improve. Sounds like McLaren are trying to help him as much as they can but it's not working out yet.



#134 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:28

 
Hindsight is 20/20 and all that but if they'd kept the new ICE in I think he'd have been 6th (assuming he had no issues).
 

 

I think 8th would still be the maximum. At most he would not be passed by Sainz. Bottas, Vettel, Hamilton, etc probably still would have.



#135 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:29

Honda more or less are on top of the reliability. To be able to finish a race in such a power demanding track was a positive. If we had spec 2.5 PU, we could've had about 15 seconds advantage.

 

Next few races will be less demanding in terms of power and Honda's spec 2.5 is coming. Hoping for the best.


Edited by RainyAfterlifeDaylight, 25 June 2017 - 15:34.


#136 Quickshifter

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:29

 
Hindsight is 20/20 and all that but if they'd kept the new ICE in I think he'd have been 6th (assuming he had no issues).

 


I dunno what it is but he needs to improve. Sounds like McLaren are trying to help him as much as they can but it's not working out yet.

 

I agree but they could not have known the race could have been so incident prone full of stoppages.

 

As far as Vandoorne is concerned, the excuses are fast running out. He appears so scared out there on track.



#137 Nova

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:31

It seems pretty sure that Alonso is out at McLaren next year, and Vandoorne ought to be replaced or at least not be the lead driver. Who will drive for McLaren next year?



#138 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:35

It seems pretty sure that Alonso is out at McLaren next year, and Vandoorne ought to be replaced or at least not be the lead driver. Who will drive for McLaren next year?

Sainz



#139 CPR

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:37

I think 8th would still be the maximum. At most he would not be passed by Sainz. Bottas, Vettel, Hamilton, etc probably still would have.

 
I disagree. At one point he was closing up on MAG (just about). I think he got as close as about 1s but then had some kind of problem and dropped back into Sainz's DRS zone. With new ICE he'd have been catching MAG at about 0.4-5s a lap and then have gotten DRS which would probably have been enough.
 
It's academic anyway. I'll take the points we have. That's one monkey off our back at least.
 
 

I agree but they could not have known the race could have been so incident prone full of stoppages.

 
Yeah, it's just an observation really, rather than a complaint.


As far as Vandoorne is concerned, the excuses are fast running out. He appears so scared out there on track.

 
The gap is unacceptable for sure but the last thing he needs is a lynch mob.

Edited by CPR, 25 June 2017 - 15:39.


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#140 restless

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:44

Sainz

no way. 



#141 pacificquay

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:44

It seems pretty sure that Alonso is out at McLaren next year, and Vandoorne ought to be replaced or at least not be the lead driver. Who will drive for McLaren next year?


Really? I think he will conclude there is no realistic better option and will stay.

#142 zoomzoom2

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:44

I'm sure McLaren has one of the best chassis out there. Alonso had to save battery and fuel all the time during the race. Honda please fix those damn issues and bring more power to the car. At least both cars finished today without any trouble. This is the first time we finish the race with both cars right?

His battery died i think, he was right behind magnussen then suddenly kept losing place, there was something in the radio.



#143 CPR

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:48

Honda more or less are on top of the reliability. To be able to finish a race in such a power demanding track was a positive. If we had spec 2.5 PU, we could've had about 15 seconds advantage.
 
Next few races will be less demanding in terms of power and Honda's spec 2.5 is coming. Hoping for the best.


I think it'll take a lot more than 1 race to convince me that Honda are on top of reliability. That's the nature of the beast. Finishing the race with brand new PU elements shouldn't be a surprise. PU elements need to last about 3000-3500 km. The current ones have done about 400 km.

 

As for the next races, they're still power tracks, but instead of being stop/start power tracks they're more about aero. Should be easier on fuel consumption but brakes will make less of a difference. With the engine deficit we still have with the new spec, they're not the sort of tracks I'd expect us to score points at in a normal race.


Edited by CPR, 25 June 2017 - 15:49.


#144 Rudex

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:48

With the next upgrade (Spec 2.5), Honda PU might be better than 2016 Ferrari PU already.

 

I dont think so. Maybe with spec 3 (Spa aparently) they will be in similar pace. Ferrari pu 2016 in Abu Dhabi was in full power first time in 2016 and It was supposed be around 5hp in race conditions to Mercedes.

I even doubt about with spec 3 will be in range of Ferrari PU 2016. We will see, but for sure very similar pace at end. And will have the pace to be between Williams and FI.

 

Today very good job for Alonso.



#145 Quickshifter

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:48

 
I disagree. At one point he was closing up on MAG (just about). I think he got as close as about 1s but then had some kind of problem and dropped back into Sainz's DRS zone. With new ICE he'd have been catching MAG at about 0.4-5s a lap and then have gotten DRS which would probably have been enough.
 
It's academic anyway. I'll take the points we have. That's one monkey off our back at least.
 
 
 
Yeah, it's just an observation really, rather than a complaint.


 
The gap is unacceptable for sure but the last thing he needs is a lynch mob.

 

Motorsport is a double edged sword. The only way to silence the criticism is to perform. He has been treated really well by Mclaren and he needs to pay that back by closing the gap to Alonso.



#146 Nova

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:52

Really? I think he will conclude there is no realistic better option and will stay.

 

He seemed quite confident when saying he would ride in a winning car next year, and with Honda or Mercedes it will not be McLaren.



#147 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:52

Really? I think he will conclude there is no realistic better option and will stay.

 

I think RAI and HAM could decide to call it quits at the end of the year on anyday actually



#148 amardeep

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:56

Alonso was playing around at the end I think, fast, slow, fast, slow laps to see how fast he could go on a single lap.



#149 Quickshifter

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:57

Alonso says McLaren should have won in Baku

 

"It was a race that in normal circumstances we should have won," said Alonso, "because I was with [race winner Daniel] Ricciardo when the first safety car came out. "Hamilton lost his headrest, Vettel was penalised, both the Force Indias were out, Kimi retired...

 

"So you are automatically in the top two or three, so we should have fought for victory, but unfortunately we are not in that position," he added.

 

https://www.motorspo...ku-race-923266/


Edited by Quickshifter, 25 June 2017 - 15:58.


#150 Kev00

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 15:59

When he says "normal circumstances" does he mean a considerably faster car?